CommissarRotke

If the lore changes in a way that feels like a retcon to how a faction was specifically introduced, people are allowed to be upset about it. If it's bad enough, yea people will just leave. And making that decision to leave the largest, penultimate wargaming system in the world still hurts even if you're finally, legitimately done with GW's decisions/models/lore etc. There are really no true alternatives to Warhammer that are not a literal gamble with your money; non-GW scenes that do exist have died very quickly when unwanted or poorly received updates happened.

Boy I sure hope they don't shoehorn in a "Dwarf"-Elf grudge into 40k... it's been done enough. The Squats and the Kin both look amazing in their own right, I had the same thought... really hoping for some actual Seraphon sculpts and them being introduced with a Warcry warband is a perfect step.

Sure it is, however, when your own army's lore clashes enough with the company's evolving canon it can really deflate motivation to participate in the universe as a whole. Again, the worry is that established GW lore for COS will be changed--the didacticism that GW itself has canonized.

I am sure you have things you can't share with us, so I appreciate the replies. If you think it'll be a Lumineth-type redesign, then I'll be excited to follow the development process for these new mortals, as I also think AOS provides an almost limitless opportunity for unique redesigns of old fantasy factions. I thought they would do this until the teaser reveal tbh; they were pretty explicit about this redesign being rooted in The Mortal Realms and not in the Old World. It's more likely TOW specialist game would use the old Empire moulds (so old armies don't look out of place) and simply provide upgrade kits for the 'new' TOW lore/setting.

Slightly disappointed Warcry was only one warband! However, overall a good showing for their specialist game systems. Now I am just hoping all of the tokens and cards from those new Warcry boxes they pushed will remain legal when the new book hits... otherwise why the hell did GW print all that cardboard and laminated paper?

But then the question becomes why tell us this is supposed to be designs we've never seen before, if it's just going to be a WFB Empire throwback? The Empire is light years better than the Imperium, but it is still quite far from how COS has been established in terms of inter-species cooperation too.

3 at minimum: spiked tail, scarred hoof leg, weighted net

Just heard Eddie confirm this, "it means Warcry isn't, isn't just for Chaos anymore" finally GW says it

This thread stemmed from me wanting to be excited to see the real humans of the Mortal Realms, and being unsure of what that future meant due to a lack of information. so thank you very much for this reply!!! (I have no more reacts) PS- finally caught up on the thread, thanks for all the responses on both sides everyone

If the entirety of Orders' backs are against the wall, that is in fact the best possible reason to work together? Struggling and fighting against Chaos would realistically bond the non-Chaos races together into some level of coexistence... Which is why the Age of Myth had Death and Destruction allied with Order. Like, having everyone continue to hate each other even with the Worst Enemy Ever about to kill you all is the lazier choice. I definitely agree a normal human faction has been missing, and I know that half of this issue is because the Warhammer TV hosts are barely given any info to talk about or to answer questions with. My design issue right now is specifically with the bitz that they showed us, which look like the complete opposite of "like nothing you've seen before!" so it was definitely a bad choice of teaser. Those sound like everyman stories to me..? Just as much as a Witch Hunter or Warrior Priest or Sergeant or whatever from WHFB. If they're a mortal human, they can be written with an everyman-perspective. This is why I'd like clarification from GW more than anything. They already have tons of established lore on Cities out, and are even paying Cubicle 7 to consistently write more for Soulbound. This really seems to stem from how poorly the Warhammer reveals go in terms of information that we're allowed to be told....

This is less true for AOS and the rays of hope that are allowed to shine in AOS seem to be a reason that a LOT of us prefer it to 40k or even WHFB. If GW wants AOS to stand apart as its own high fantasy IP, something needs to be different. And being without the fantasy speciesism of their other two GIANT IPs will set Age of Sigmar as its own nobledark standard. I think there's a misunderstanding here: those of us who want the Cities redesign to include non-humans, want that because it would mean direct synergies and less/no redundant units.

Exactly why I'm hoping we get more clarification by the end of May... If you can, pick one of the AOS social media pages and/or the AOS FAQ email to ask about this. I'm also considering emailing the warcom inbox to ask when they'll clarify the new COS reveal. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Contact-Us

Part of this problem is that the Warhammer show hosts, as far as we know, are only told what GW wants them to say on air. So their lack of an answer could be that they legitimately do not know. I'd be more surprised if Dawnbringer Crusades replaced COS, than DBC being a new faction unto itself. I could also see them being a major subfaction of COS itself if that range is staying.

Not saying it doesn't, moreso that the darkness is balanced by actual hope and heroism--hence "nobledark" as opposed to the corners of noblebright and grimdark. Biggest example would be how (most) Stormcast treat mortals vs how Space Marines do. having that juxtaposition between the settings makes BOTH of them more interesting IMHO. I never went back to 40k because I'm tired of "everyone is actually evil, no good guys!!!"

Forgot to include this in the original post: My main concern stems from the fact that GW established metropolitan cities where humans, elves, and dwarves (among even others!) coexist with each other. So why is this huge redesign NOT a combination of human, elf, and dwarven aesthetics to make a truly unique AOS mortals faction? Why does it look like fantasy-Imperium with the TINY amount of bitz they've shown us. I do think that Freeguild/Cities in general need a redesign to place them firmly within AOS. I just don't really trust them when they say it'll be completely different, especially when they seem to be leaving the rest of COS in the dust for revamped Empire. I hope you're right in that sense, if those bitz are the only ones that look like the old Empire.

This is EXTREMELY late and I apologize for necro-ing the thread, but I had noticed your posts were a lot less...combative? 😅 for a while now. Then I remembered there are more general threads than Rumours aaaand here I am! Very very happy for you, and wanted to say welcome to the family!!! I am also glad it feels safe enough for us to LGTB ourselves here at TGA

hey everyone, I created a separate thread for the human redesign discussion here:

I'd like to open a new topic to discuss the inevitable changes and possible retcons of existing COS lore and the new 3.0 Dawnbringers lore, from the newly announced "human redesign." My thoughts aren't 100% collected so apologies if this is all over the place. I'll repost my blurb from the Rumour Thread that made me start this one: The follow up article for Dawnbringers https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/05/revealed-the-massive-project-to-put-mortals-back-into-mortal-realms/ Again they say this is "new concepts and miniatures grounded in the lore… but also quite unlike anything you’ve seen before" ...and yet the description on the CAD renders is "These are some of the insignia, emblems, and symbols that will come with your models to demonstrate their rather macabre dedication to the God-King" which sounds EXACTLY like things we've seen before in both WHFB and 40k... So I don't think I'm alone in thinking that AOS does best when it relies on a nobledark setting, as opposed to the straight grimdarkness of 40k. The announcement that this is a human-centric redesign for Cities was worrying enough, but the small CAD renders we were given as a teaser left me with a bad taste enough taste to make the entire reveal extremely bittersweet. I'm worried that GW is going to make AOS into the fully-grimdark mess that 40k and WHFB are; where they try to make everyone Dark Grey/Black and leave zero room for actual heroics and hope. Are they doing this to try and court 40k fans? To grab more of the WHFB holdouts that haven't jumped to AOS? Will a human-centric redesign, and thus a human-centric Crusade, mean that yet another human-supremacist faction like the Imperium is inevitable for AOS? **editing this into main post: My main concern stems from the fact that GW established metropolitan cities where humans, elves, and dwarves (among even others!) coexist with each other. So why is this huge redesign NOT a combination of human, elf, and dwarven aesthetics to make a truly unique AOS mortals faction? Why does it look like fantasy-Imperium with the TINY amount of bitz they've shown us?? My purpose for this thread is to collect any questions, concerns, rumours, and existing lore to discuss what a complete human redesign means for AOS as a game and as a setting. Optimally, I'd also like to organize some sort of letter-writing to GW from those of us who like AOS as the nobledark alternative to GW's other settings.

Extremely well said. No idea when basic respect and decency for our fellow humans became "woke cancel culture."

The unfortunate reality yep... we can only pray that AOS design/lore doesn't change in order to court 40k fans

The follow up article for Dawnbringers https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/05/revealed-the-massive-project-to-put-mortals-back-into-mortal-realms/ Again they say this is "new concepts and miniatures grounded in the lore… but also quite unlike anything you’ve seen before" ...and yet the description on the CAD renders is "These are some of the insignia, emblems, and symbols that will come with your models to demonstrate their rather macabre dedication to the God-King" which sounds EXACTLY like things we've seen before in both WHFB and 40k...

You can always return them? But there's a good chance you can simply proxy those units; tourney rules are only sticklers about non-GW plastic. COS was always technically in limbo, though I don't know if they'll fully squat it. Recent battletomes removing warscroll abilities in favor of (sub)faction abilities means old Cities units could be repurposed with new faction keywords, rather than squatted.

Points outside warscroll builder are always welcome though, don't want to have to load that up just to check points values. I was under the impression they meant the points wouldn't be in the GHB because they'll be a PDF online.

Points updates confirmed as free online for AOS as well