Lurynsar

Skaven should be mostly gutted. Lose everything of the stupid Pestilens, Eshin and what not. Stop being chaos. Then they should be moved to Destruction. Make them their own empire that’s bent on the destruction of everyone else’s and Rat dominance. Then reimagine them from the ground up as a “weird science”. This will have something similar to the Skyre theme. But even more so. This stupid divided mix is awful and uninspiring. Beasts of Chaos need to be changed to Beastmen or Wyldbeasts of whatever for a trademark. Then redesigned away from Chaos themes to just pure and utter hatred for civilization and made Destruction (seeing a pattern here?). That or just remove Grand Orders anyways. They’re stupid. But regardless I want Beasts and Skaven their own unique armies more than they are now and not tied to chaos at all ideally. Lastly Cities of Sigmar should just die. I’m all for Dawnbringer Crusaders coming to life. Bringing a mixed race force of Elves, Dwarves and Humans who worship (at some level) Sigmar. But give them their own unique look and have units mixed races. Then kill off the last vestiges of WFB from this line. Lumineth replaced the High Elves, use the Corsairs as a unit for Umbraneth Elves or whatever. Kill of the old Empire and Dwarf lines. And then if you want create the Khazilid Empire for more Fantasy like dwarves in a super book with KO and Fyreslayers I am okay with that. I know a lot of people have a love for WFB. But I don’t. And I want to experience AoS as it’s own thing. Not with a bunch of pieces of WFB holding on. It would make the game better I feel.

So I was drawn into a 40K league the past couple of months, but a AoS is starting soon it seems. I will almost certainly be rocking the Hedonites and plan to share the games as they Escalate. That said though, has anyone played anything other than Lurid Haze. I think the other two subsubfactions are way worse. But I like the idea of Godseekers on their own. I was testing them before this league, and honestly think I really want to push it further. Lurid Haze is easy to fall for, so I’m curious what others have experienced if you’ve gone off the beaten path.

So as much as I’d love to join in on the wishlisting, I fully expect that the book and the core of our rules won’t ever be changing. At least not for a long while. As such I’ve returned with more thoughts. I see a lot of talk about our “big” options. Gluttos, Be’lakor, Archaon, and even Keepers or multiples of Sigvald/Dexcessa/Synessa. My question I’ve been asking myself is which of these are good, which aren’t, and most importantly how many are too many (well how many points can we spend on them and still do well). I will state off the back, that I may have a very different opinion than most, but the answer is not many. I believe either Gluttos or Be’lakor are playable if you’re not taking Sigvald or the Twins. I believe you can play two between Sigvald and the Twins. But that’s about where it stops. I believe Keepers are only summonable, and as nice as they are they’re far too many points to play straight up. Likewise while Archaon is solid; I believe he doesn’t play to our strengths. In the first book we had, we only ran heroes because of Depravity. With the new book in last edition we focused heavily on heroes because well our points were high on our regular options, and this hasn’t changed. However I truly believe after about 35 games that our mortals (and even some Daemons) are the core to playing our faction to a decent level consistently. You need to have a good number of units to take damage and trade into to generate DP. As I’ve said before our summoning is bonkers, like really good. So good I’ve had a few comments telling me our faction is broken (lol). Now obviously there are easier to pilot armies/lists that can get you solid results. But if you’re like me and want to actually play Hedonites this edition you really need to hone in on the faction and what it’s strengths are. And that is 100% trading up in a unique way. Sacrificing our mortals (or daemons on the board) to summon. This means that too many heroes cannot be as effective unless they have ways to constantly be attacking and hurting 3+ units. This means that units that are cheap (for us) and able to do something are important. For that I’ve found Hellstriders and Blissbarbs to be particularly effective. I’ve also found that (sadly) I still enjoy using Painbringers. They are usually able to deal some damage, and always take some. They’re still hard to kill, and by putting them on objectives/where the enemy has to go to play the game; they’ve been darned effecting at generating depravity for me. Basically at this point I’ve managed to summon an average of 1500+ points a game. 1500 points. Even if you believe we are 25% over costed that means I’m still playing the game with around 2600 points to most armies 2000. It’s massive, even with a 25% over costed army. The ability to summon what we need; when we need it is 100% the way we will win. That means your list needs to be formulated to be getting hopefully 12+ Depravity every single round. Obviously 30 Daemonettes or a Keeper are my go to summoning, and they’ll likely be the standard, but others have a place that we will all learn as we go. But regardless of what you summon you need to be doing it as often as you can for whatever you need. Anyways that’s my experience so far; and it’s likely not anything new. But I truly believe we are hurting our armies limited strengths by spending 50-70% of our points on heroes. Yeah they do work, and can often hit well and sometimes even above their point cost, but at the end of the day the bonus we get from MSU depravity is far stronger I think. In other notes I’ll be playing an Escalation League (750/1000/1500/2000/3000) in the coming months starting next month. So I get to see how Hedonites do at all the weird point levels that people play at. I’m likely going to include battle reports and pictures somewhere for those interested. Keep on being depraved you Slaaneshy fiends.

Core Battalions have nothing to do with Generals? But several armies have access to more than one General through different means. But if you’re getting Commanders and Sub-Commanders are somehow linked to Generals then no. They’re simply identifiers we give to specific units. A General is a totally different part of list building.

As of now you can take as many Core Battalions from the rulebook as you’d like. Duplicates are totally allowed. The only limitations are on the two “special” Battalions for the realm in the Matched Play Generals Handbook. So yes two Warlord Battalions and their associated rules would be allowed in a single list.

Okay sure. There are other ways to do things. But why? Games Workshop has been the big fish for awhile, and now they’re dominating the world. Their growth has been nothing short of insane the last 5 years, and especially the last 2. They literally are winning by doing what they’re doing. I’m not saying it’s the best or ideal for players who want more balance and play events. I’m simply saying that GW has consistently pushed aside every challenger, and grows bigger and bigger each year. While it might not seem important for “balance” and what a vocal minority want, the fact is when it comes to doing things “right” or wrong the data doesn’t lie. Games Workshop is 100% doing things right in a corporate world. That will sometimes suck for certain types of players or collectors for sure, but as a whole it means at least we continue to have a game and support. That’s something that a lot of games out there don’t have a promise of.

I can actually answer this as I run a store. It’s a two or three fold reason. The first is simple economics. If I release X, Y and Z at once, most buyers will buy X or Y or Z. If I space them out a month or three between each far more players will buy all three. While there is a chance that in time players would still buy all 3, that is lessened as the hype is gone. Hype drives sales big time and when you hype three things, but wallets can only afford one; the other two will not sell as much even over a similar period as releasing them spaced out would. The next reason is store inventory. Hobby stores often run on thin margins and cannot afford to buy multiple releases at once. When a new book comes with 1-3 new kits, cards, dice and a Combat Patrol you’re asking a store to spend hundreds of dollars for each single release for just a single copy of each, with more obviously costing more, and most stores don’t take enough preorder payments early enough to offset the risk. Doing it for one release at a time is fine, but 3 at once? 5? 10? You’d literally be blowing a years budget in one go, and are likely to sell far fewer over the same amount of time (see above). Unlike some companies, GW does actually try to help out and support the LGSs that sell their games, so they don’t want to see them run under a wave of releases. Okay Lurynsar that’s fine, but just release the rules and everything else later I hear you cry. And again a good idea in theory, but it has two issues. The first is mass production, transport and storage of a single codex/tome takes up space and time. Doing it times 10 is just not realistic during Covid especially, but also a whole for GW. While they’re a billion dollar company on paper there’s a lot more behind the scenes of that number, and on top of it this success is quite new to them. They’re a little company that has to grow up fast. This isn’t defending the fact they haven’t, but it’s just the logistical truth. To add to this is a lawsuit they half lost years ago about IP. If they don’t put a model to market within a certain timeframe they actually cannot defend the IP to it if someone else rushes it to market first. So releasing all the rules is fine, but they cannot include the new models and what not in that book because of this lawsuit if it’s not within a time frame of release (I’ve not got specifics on the time line. But again 10+ factions even with just 2 or 3 models each is a huge time frame of releases due to their production capacity). Now an option to this is embrace digital fully and “errata” in the options when you release the models for those books down the line. This actually would work to a degree, but isn’t GWs model at this time. However, even if they embraced such a model it still cycles back to this current system is the best for the business as a whole. Both GW and the stores that sell their product. While it isn’t as ideal for the players, especially tournament players, it’s still the best system they have in their eyes. And in reality the people who play this game and care about balance and equal releases and book strength and everything this forum talks about are the minority. We seem the majority because we all exist inside multiple echo chambers together, but the sales data doesn’t lie. “Casual” players who don’t play the game regularly at all make up most of the sales. They want cool models and pretty art and fun stories. Many players can have entire editions pass them by with only a handful of games played, yet they’re buying models every month still. So yeah, despite it all GW has a plan. And while we may not like it or might think we know better, they do know what they’re doing when it comes to releases (outside Covid delays) and sale driven data at the very least.

The Generals Handbook under Matched Play Battlepack rules specifically says that Coalition units can never count as Battleline, but do count as Leaders, Behemoths and Artillery. So I imagine for the vast vast majority of games Coalition units are not going to be Battleline.

Depends what you want to do. Technically the Core Book doesn’t have the Battleplans, or the Realm Rules and what not. On the other hand the GH doesn’t have the non Ghur Core Battalions from what I saw, doesn’t have any info for games that aren’t either 1000 or 2000 points (so no tables with all the different restrictions) nor any of the “casual” stuff like the campaign system which looks awesome. If you want it all, you need both. If you are focused on just one aspect then likely the one holding that will do. Both have the Core rules, the new Endless Spells (I think… actually Core book might not) and whatnot. But they are different for different types of play. So some overlap, but not a lot.

Alright I have cried, screamed, raged, and swore. But I have returned with my next iteration of my 2000 point list for some test games starting this afternoon. I actually have another list I am interested to try after this one too, and a weird coalition-like thing I am brewing too. But those will come in time. So here is the new list I hope to have some success with: So let's break this one down. First off I have moved off Lurid Haze. Why? Well the Command Ability isn't that important now. I would only really want it for Twinsouls, and I can get it from Mystic Shield in theory if I really wanted it. So we have gone to Pretenders, and trying out the Faultless Blades. They seem interesting, and I have often wanted to play them generally so it should be fun. Ignoring the first two wounds can save a Twinsoul each turn, which might have some play (especially with the Emerald Lifeswarm, more on that below). On top of that I get to use two Core Battalions, the standard for us (if not everyone) Battle Regiment, allowing us to limit drops. This list is 4 drops, but I still feel confident in getting the first turn with 4 drops, so hopefully that pans out. The Bladebringer cannot fit in a Battalion, so can counter deploy against their intended target (again, see below). The new addition of the Hunters of the Heartlands Battalion also allows me to make my Twinsouls immune to monstrous rampages (mostly Roar), and the Blissbarbs are there because well I want to counter deploy them where I need them so I can save them to my last drop for the best chance of that. The Leader's are pretty self explanatory. Dexcessa has been good to me, and really becomes a must deal with workhouse, and on top of that the mixture of Hero and Monster is really good. Speaking of Hero and Monster being really good, the Bladebringer is there to hunt exactly that. Decked out to deal a TON of wounds to Hero and/or Monsters (and especially if it's both) this is one of most reliable damage units in the game. I also get to use my cool "mortal" Lord conversion on a chariot. So that's a bonus. Lastly is the Shardspeaker. She remains with me in this list, and has a new purpose with the Emerald Lifeswarm. I am really going to double down on making the Twinsouls disgusting, and she is here to facilitate that. I have yet to choose a spell for sure, with both Levitate (haha flying Twinsouls) and Judgement in consideration (DP generation). Basically she is just another moving part of my Twinsouls block. Lastly I have found the Lord of Pain to be boring, and lackluster over and over. He isn't bad per-say, but he doesn't justify his existence. As such future lists will not include him, and as such I will have to take some mix of 3 units of Hellstriders and Blissbarbs to cover my Battleline. Twinsouls I have made clear, are amazing. I have a new plan to negate the first 2 wounds with them each turn, and bring them back with the Lifeswarm when I can, among other buffs to really make them a pain to deal with. Painbringers... I hate them. But I also feel like I might still need them. I am doing some weird coalition plans to remove them and fill them with cheaper Beastmen, but that is a future I am not yet in. I will force myself to test them, as I do believe table experience is important, but I really do feel that at 160 Points they're like at least 40 points too many now. Blissbarbs and Hellstriders are my Battleline. I don't expect much out of them (but to be honest both variants of Hellstriders have impressed me), but they have a role and get me some DP; so I am more than happy to include them in my lists going forward in some mix. I plan to continue my goal of trying to decide which Hellstriders are better, but they might both be equally viable with different targets and goals. They killed Wheels. Honestly the reduced movement and no free move I should have seen coming, because we had the new baseline spells which were the same, but I am still upset. I (like many) am interested to try the Visage for the fight last effects and see how it goes. It can generate some DP, has some cool effects, but we will see. It is still costly for a lot of "might do something", so it might find itself cut quick enough. But the Emerald Lifeswarm is my new random tech. What if I can heal or (66% chance) regenerate a Twinsoul every turn? Ignoring 2 wounds, bringing one back a turn, and giving them +1 to their save along with their Ward makes this unit very very hard to shift (on paper). Combined with the offensive buffs, I feel this spell, the Shardspeaker and Twinsouls together make a package that might be amazing. So that is my thoughts going in. I am hopeful there is still something that I can make work, and am confident I have the skills to, but am unsure the army is deserving of my time. If I plan to go hard into events, I may be switching out from Hedonites, but we will see. I am also going to be in an Escalation League for several months with this new edition and Slaanesh and Sylvaneth are both in contention for that, so these test games will hopefully help me make the choice. Lastly I did not find either Monsters in my last list to be worth it. They both had some cute interactions and were amusing, but as an actual serious choice both weren't up to snuff. I still want some cool actual Slaanesh mortal monsters in the future, but until then I am happy to have Dexcessa be my Monster of choice.

It means the army doesn’t lose the Allegiance Abilities by taking that unit. If the unit being taken with that rule also has the required rule for them to benefit from the armies Allegiance then they’ll benefit. But it doesn’t confer them the benefits by default. Just allows them not to ruin it.

I’ve played 11 games with them. 1 unit of each. Both are fine. At times the lashes were better at other times the claw spears. Either or is a good choice for sure. They weren’t too squishy. They weren’t too killy. But they did their role fine, and we at a cost I was super happy with.

Similar to me. Cut off the plumes of the Painbringer helmets and made more form fitting Romanesque style helmets for the Twinsouls. Then gave them the weapons of the Twinsouls. Tournament accurate and look better (and distinct enough) than the regular models.

Yeah it reads “Coalition units do not count towards the number of Battleline units in your army” for the Matched Play Battlepack

Just a heads up. The Matched Play Battlepack disallows coalition units as counting for Battleline. So you don’t actually gain new Battleline units in the vast majority of cases unless you plan to play strictly casual rule sets.

To be fair; I didn’t jump on or believe the whole “we are priced for third”. It made no sense. And for a few of the units (most actually) I didn’t mind the price changes. I felt Painbringers were fair at 160 honesty. Slickblades felt bad, but everything else felt pretty okay. But this, this just means that 160 is about 50 points more than I’d ever pay for them. The rerolls were actually the only thing they have going for them. Taking those away means they went from A in my testing to maybe a C- at best. They literally aren’t playable now if you have any competitive aspirations.

Well I was going to give you updates to my last ten games and future changes planned. Instead I’m going to be going back to the drawing board. Wheels getting 4” of its move nerfed sucks. It’s 12” move made it actually useful. Painbringers are now 100% overcosted and unplayable as anything. The rerolls were literally the only thing they have going. 3+ saves is easy peasy to get, and play around. The reroll made them tarpits, as they had no damage output. I guess the good news is I don’t have to also pay 155 points for a Lord of Pain to make them Battleline because they’ll never see the table again. Gonna keep looking for the gems, but as Slickblade and Painbringers were my favourite models in the army; having both be unplayable just means I have a lot less interest in playing the faction as a whole. Might start a new army or focus on my Sylvaneth for the time being.

I will state that I look at everything through a competitive lense. As such sometimes my thoughts will not work for someone looking for a more "story driven" mechanic or unit. For pure, raw power our summoning is good. Story wise, maybe it is weird, but to me on the table that doesn't matter. I have Soulbound (great RPG IMO for the record) when I want to explore story and feelings of the Mortal Realms, again that is me though. That said GW has ALWAYS had a theme that they translate to an in game mechanic for their games. Necron (or undead) recursion, Sisters of Battle pious miracles, Tzeentch fate and dice manipulation, Kharadron ignoring core tenants of a magic and melee based game etc. Summoning is clearly our theme and game mechanic now. If you don't like that aspect I believe you will be unhappy with Slaanesh; probably forever. With today's article and past discussion it is clear that GW has pointed the faction to take advantage of our amazing summoning. If you don't want to have to play with summoning then I am sorry that GW is moving away from what you want in the faction. That all said I do not believe GW cannot balance it. Our points costs are high, but our summoning is very powerful and feels insanely impactful. So I would say that despite a failed balance with our previous book, they have succeeded in making summoning balanced this go around; especially heading into 3rd. As such there would be no reason for GW to drop this theme, as they clearly can (and IMO have) balance such a mechanic. I do not believe we have to wait for a new book. I believe we are able to play now (maybe not at the tippy top of the competitive ladder, but usually that's only 2-4 lists anyways, and we cannot expect to be there), and that waiting for another book is only going to disappoint the player-base if they think it will do much change wise. There won't be sweeping changes (except maybe Slaangors!), and almost certainly the mechanics we have will continue, even if they are tweaked or added to.

I have played 10 games with them, so feel I can add a little insight from my experience. While I haven't done "math" for them (and as someone who has played a ton of competitive games, math only gets you so far, table experience is often different than paper power), I can say they do not FEEL worth 230 points. I can't say if 200 would feel better. What I can say is that 195 points for Blood Knights feels great for them, and I wish we had a unit like them at their cost. I just don't find that Slickblades do enough for their cost. They are fast. They are decent, or even good at killing. They don't survive well enough. I cannot justify those 3 "stats" for 230 points. In my games they were not impactful. Now maybe I will find that Hellstriders aren't impactful either and offer even less than Slickblades, even at almost 100 points less, but until I have got them on the table I can't know for sure. The problem with mathing out "best damage" is actually putting that into effect. Slickblades are larger bases, with an awkward shape, and against the more MSU just aren't efficient. Sure they might kill a 110 point unit they charge with some ease, but they are then removed easily back. Screens are the name of the game (at least with my opponents and local meta) and they can either hold back to engage something better than screens (in which case their speed is wasted) or they can clear out the screens. The math says damage is good, but the actual tabletop experience says they don't have a role we need filled (or that we cannot fill with better "cheaper" options). This is why I don't feel they are worth their points. Twinsouls can better engage screens, survive longer (ish) and are able to not waste their speed for less points. The Slickblades want to do something that IMO the meta doesn't have existing yet. That said, I haven't written them off as garbage. Just that in my experience 230 points is too many for what they actually bring to the table. If they are truly one of the best units based on math, then maybe someone can unlock how to use them, or maybe the meta shifts differently than my local and they slot in beautifully for us. I am hopeful that all (except Slaangors!) our units have a place, and that we are just waiting for the right meta, or player to unlock their power. In my experience the Slickblades are not at that point; hopefully someone else can show me wrong and teach me how to use them to allow me to put them back in my lists sometime.

Against a meta Lumineth build, I don't know how well we will do. Against most Lumineth builds I see, I feel we will have play for sure. Kharadron, and Daughters were hard matchups, and I feel more comfortable now into Daughters, and about the same into Kharadrons. So we haven't gotten worse that way. Against everything else I feel we are decent or better into. Which means with strong generalship, I feel we have game in a lot of matchups, which is a good sign. Of course we need real tournament data (and good players) to see how true that holds up.

I do not feel they need her. I lost her several times early enough that the Twinsouls had to go it alone, and they were still solid. Obviously buffed anything is better, but I felt they were strong choices either way. The only negative I can say about the Twinsouls is the lack of Rend (combined with the ease of +1 to saves) is sometimes annoying. Not always, but when it is, it really sucks. I have not yet tried Blissbarb Seekers, as I continue to try out the Blissbarbs as my ranged option. Depending on my experiences with them and Hellstriders, I have a list in mind to try two units in place of Blissbarbs and other options. If/when I get to that list I will certainly report back any findings.

Totally agree with the Slickblades. At 200 I might have felt better about them. But at basically 100 points more than Hellstriders, neither their output or their survivability are worth the mark up. They are just too costly it seems at 230. I don't know if 150 or 160 makes a difference for Painbringers, but I would personally agree on the Lord of Pain. He isn't bad, but hes boring and often times just there. Painbringers moving to unconditional Battleline would make me very happy, and honestly wouldn't break anything. Leave Twinsouls as conditional and the LoP still has a place if you want to go heavy into them (or need them as your 2nd/3rd Battleline in a different style list) That said as a whole I don't really think Painbringers are overcosted at 160, and they have felt worth the inclusion every game. Seeing other armies Battleline also go up makes it not sting much, so its possible I just don't weigh 10 points as much as you, which I probably should due how tight we can be on points. I am super curious about the Monsters, so hopefully I will get 2 games in later today with them and have some thoughts. At 205 for the pair they are very cheap, and as such I have my doubts on them. But maybe somehow they skipped through the points craze and are just really solid. We will see. I disagree strongly. While Summoning might not be Slaanesh's "thing" (and we don't know that it isn't AoS, while having remnants of the Old World, is its own endeavor and could make Summoning a story part of Slaanesh as we go further into the lore) I truly think it's a fun mechanic, and a unique enough way to make Slaanesh slightly different than the other God forces. As someone who has dabbled in Blood Tithe points in both 40K Daemonkin and Blades of Khorne, it's really not that much fun. There is always a few choices you either save for, or 1 you use "just because it's there" and the rest aren't going to be as impactful. This isn't even GWs fault, there will almost always be a best choice when options exist for some sort of resource, and eventually math and play testing will work it out. Summoning is similar, but there are times where the board state actually effects summons more than a static list of buffs ever could. For me Summoning continues to be a fun, and interesting part of Hedonites. Also at this point we are seeing it as Slaanesh's "thing" because its been in virtually every variant of Slaanesh we have had in AoS, so clearly this is a design point of the faction and will not be changing. At the end of the day I still believe not enough players have tested out 3rd for any serious length of time (which is fair, game isn't out until next weekend) and are still feeling down from an overpowered, downright broken Battletome that was nerfed. We won't ever be going back to that power level (intentionally), and if you feel the army is bad because of that then you likely want to jump ship now, as future updates are likely to make you even more upset as we remain somewhat static. If you are here because you love Slaanesh, the models, the lore and want to play games with them, I assure you with practice, and some good skills you will be able to enjoy Slaanesh this edition. If you are looking for easy wins, without much thought or practice then there are better competitive options out there, and I suspect Slaanesh will not be for you. This is not a slight to anyone who has discontent with some of the changes (I myself harbour a small number even after practice games), but we as a community need to work past it. Rehashing how bad something is (except Slaangors!) won't help us grow, and the sad truth is GW doesn't much listen to whining. We know there are some bad things, and we should continue to remind GW of them when we can, but we need to work together to find the good parts, because there are some, I promise.

For those of you who don’t venture into the Slaanesh part of the forum; I’ll add my dissenting from the norm voice. Hedonites didn’t fair too bad. There are certainly some points that make you question why, but for the most part the army is as playable as it was, and I feel third edition adds a lot to the game. Summoning feels great, and MSU is the name of the game for more factions than ever so that’s awesome for Depravity generation. Our Twinsouls have that sweet sweet 2” melee range, which as we all know with the new coherency is a huge boon. Worth likely a ton. And the new caps make a 3+ rerollable save about as tough as you can get and Painbringers bring that quite easily. Our daemonic options did suffer some strange points costs, but if you’re willing to play into Mortals and use the daemons via summoning then the changes don’t hurt. Likewise the changes to Endless Spells are quite pronounced and some of ours are really good. Slaangors remain hot garbage, and a curious decision. But that’s about the norm for them at this point. If there ever was a joke unit it’s them. I know some Slaanesh players won’t like me saying it, but we aren’t near as bad as some people want to say we are. The army will require some finesse, and there are some obvious issues, but after 10 games with the new rules I’ve found them to be better than they were in second with this book (and I’m not alone in this) and really a decent army overall. Hopefully an eventual point change can bring a few more of our units into a better light, but I haven’t seen anything in my playtesting that makes me think the army is unplayable or what not.

Alright, it's update time again. I won't really rehash what I have said, but will confirm a few things I believe at this point. 1) Sigvald is good, but sometimes too random for me to love as much as I thought I would. He is still 100% a good, or even great, option. I just feel for me he doesn't offer what I am looking for. 2) Twinsouls and Painbringers are 100% fairly costed, and do their roles well. The 2" melee range is insane this edition with how coherency is now meant to be played. I know it's like sacrliage to state such points are fair, but these units are fine, and not overcosted. I never felt bad about these 20 models in a single game. However do not expect 5 Painbringers to kill anything. The weight of dice for mortals do not exist, but that is not their role at all. 3) The Shardspeaker is amazing. Dies to a swiff breeze, and is a little reliant on dice rolls (spells and her 3+ ability), but she is worth the dice and her cost at 150 is actually not an issue, because it feels so cheap. 4) I cannot make Slickblades worth almost a quarter of my list. At 230 points for 5, they just don't do enough for their cost. I hope someone can unlock some tech to make them worth it, but for me they are done for now. 5) I am super hot and cold on Blissbarbs. I was using them poorly, and hated them. Used them better (and cheated for 2 games oops!) and they were great. Used them better, and didn't cheat and they were solid a few games and awful a few others. For now they stay so I can see if its a me or a them issue. Now I don't really do battle reports yet, but maybe I will in time. That said for those who care I went 8-2 with this list. I played Soulblight x3, Lumineth, Daughters x2, Kharadrons, Blades of Khorne, Nighthaunt and Stormcast. My losses were to Soulblight once, and to Nighthaunt (I know; how?). However I don't want my W/L record to be too much confirmation of anything, as I am a long time wargamer and competitive grinder in the past. While AoS was not my tournament game the stricter mentality and tight playstyle does allow me success in "casual" games where I might not see it in more difficult events. Never-the-less I am happy with the faction so far. So going forward for my next 10 games I have a new list to try with elements I want to practice. Okay so where is my head at with this list? Well I wanted to keep the core (Lord of Pain, Shardspeaker, 10 Twinsouls, 2x5 Painbringers and Blissbarbs together). So from there I made the change to Dexcessa, from Sigvald. My hope is she is more reliable and will feel better to me long term. On paper I am interested to see how she does, and am excited. Melee can grow to be gross, she is another Monster in this list, and can issue a free command each turn, which can be huge. Speaking of Monsters, I have added (on the information from some fellow forum goers) allies in the form of the Crusher and the Sphiranx. These are both low level monsters, but combined with Dexcessa gives me 3 monsters to start with before summons. This will play very differently I feel because of their new rules, so I am very excited to see how they go. From there the Hellstriders replace the Slickblades, and I am hopeful they can do the job the Slickblades did, but at a much cheaper cost. I am using a unit of each equipment option, as I am unsure of which is better, and do actually see a lot of utility for both. Hopefully by playing them both I can gather data on which I prefer. They are also my first Slaanesh models I ever painted for Age of Sigmar, so its cool to play them again. The Pendulum replaces Wheels, and I am almost certain that I will dislike the change, but the points needed to be made up somewhere and this was where it went. I hope with a 2+ required for mortals I can generate at least 2 DP each time I summon it in, but we will see. Lastly I got to add a Triumph (since maybe someone will be at 2000 and I can use it), and had to add a third drop. I don't think a third drop will make much difference in going first as most opponents have been sitting at 5-7 drops currently, but if I start losing first turn, it will be changed back. The two drop list was wonderful, and I like having the early board control too much. So we will have to see how things go. Hopefully in the next few days I will get the first games in and can report back on the new units. I am confident this list has some less than optimal choices, but I wan't to give them a chance, and play with some new rules to really see how they do.

This is exactly my feelings. 3rd edition has some great rules (no matter how you feel about Slaanesh) and the people fleeing the game because it's "bad" or "dead" or "GW doesn't understand" are baffling to me, and feel like reactions without time spent on the game. I come from both a 40K, and Warmachine background so bloat is something doesn't bother me much at all, but for those of you who preferred the older smaller rule set with simple rules will be disappointing as the bloat grows.