Belper

He said 'I hope we see more of them with the points drop'. I said 'keep hopin cause it ain't happening' because they're still unplayable at 140.

Dude, what. Your first sentence and second sentence directly contradict. 'Across the board buffs' and 'minor nerfs' are mutually exclusive.

Keep hopin, cause it ain't happenin.

Of course, though apparently not nearly as important as being pedantic about jokey posts. You and Hammers have made it QUITE clear that feeling self-important in response to something tongue-in cheeck is the ABSOLUTE highest priority.

The only meaningful changes in terms list building are, taking min units of WE feels wasteful, and cutting some corners to keep the hag queens and possibly running lifetakers instead of heartrenders (maybe) UNLESS WE also lost their horde bonus at which point SoS or Snakes are likely going to be better options. Blood stalkers to 140 is a joke. They'd have to be 100pts before they'd be worth looking at.

So what you're saying is that the announcement left extremis chamber out in the cold, regardless of whether the GHB changed them or not.

Yeah, Longstrikes were a decent enough pick already, doubt they changed. Hunters were absolute bunk, palladors were too expensive for what they offered compared to dracoths/Dracolines, Blacktalon was overpriced after they nerfed her warscroll and the generic zephyros was complete garbage, hurricane crossbows were too expensive but on the cusp of being useful, and all of the battalions were hilariously pointless.

Extremis chamber left out in the cold. Why no one love poor dracoths?

S You can buy a Carnosaur outside of the starter box. The option is available on the website. You'd have to be an moron to do that though, because the Carnosaur is 85$ and the SC is 90. You're thinking of the Magmadroth which you can't buy because it's MORE expensive than the SC and abusive as GW are, they're not THAT abusive. Lot of people who have no idea what they're talking about on this thread.

Eh...as long as you're forced to buy, build, paint, and transport extra models, rules like these won't see any traction outside of narrative/open. And that's even ignoring the fact that, in practice, it just ends up with one army randomly getting an extra free 200+ points added to their force for no freaking reason.

Can't wait for the non-chaos warbands for Warcry.(Which seems to have gone a bit under the radar, actually.) Gonna get me some more DoK!

Previous tongue in cheek repsonse notwithstanding... Keep in mind that Requizen has a very optimistic outlook, especially on Stormcasts. While this is enviable, it can lead to buyers remorse in some cases. I would start to build the army with Sequitors, Evocators, and Heroes that compliment those units. This will give you a strong baseline to go off of. Then add other units slowly, and play with them a bit before you buy multiples. Dracolines are pretty solid, though with clear weaknesses you'll have to learn to play around. Getting a Lord Arcanum on Dracoline to be your general will also allow you to use Sequitors as battleline. Unfortunately Stormcast also revolve around two units, the difference is that SCE have so many units that the gradient between really good (sequitors) and really bad (tempestors) has a lot more stops than other armies.

@TheGrayKing Got Sequitors, evocators, Gavriel Sureheart, a Lord Arcanum, a Knight incantor, and a handfull of other characters(what they are is irrelevant.)? Great! If not, get those. At least 45 sequitors and 20 evocators. Sell anything that isn't those two units to get those two units. Then sell the rest for beer money, because it's all preeeeeetty meh. (Eh...actually...you can keep 4 ballista and an Ordinator too). Slam those into a list and BAM instant 3-1-1 or better tournament army.

You kinda just described 'nerfed into the ground.' Before AoS2(post Kurnoth nerf) , shooting was something used to either : A. Let DoT, mixed order, and Aetherstrike wipe your army off the table or B. Character sniping. Now magic has mostly replaced shooting as an army strategy and character sniping is more difficult than ever. I'd argue that for most armies it's straight up not worth the investment (Woo! 360pts of Longstrikes to reliably kill a 60pt unbuffed Hag Queen!) Combine that with just about every good shooting unit in the game catching nerfs leading up to or just after AoS 2, and shooting is in a pretty poor state overall. Last I knew even new skaven were devoting their points to hordes of bodies and magic rather than a lot of shooting. It's still useful, it'll always be useful, and maybe gristlegore will help it come back a bit. As it stands now though, I haven't seen anything but a Celestar Ballista make a shooting attack in months.

Why not just get rid of those abilities at that point? Honestly these are more insults than compromises. Reroll 1s to save on a unit with a 6+ save? A 7" bubble trying to cover a unit that takes up more than 7" of space on its own? What a joke.

Without witchbrew, witch aelves don't work. They go from being one of the best units in the game to being a unit you've probably never heard of. No battleshock immunity is already basically a deathblow, combining that with wounding on 4s, you'd never take them. At least not to attack with, a unit of 30 with bucklers acting as a 'shield of thorns' chaff unit would be okay...if you had the extra CP to Inspiring presence them each turn. No, most people would switch to all snakes. Making it once per battle makes it frustrating and stupid for the DoK player, without making life any better for their opponents. The actual problem with Witchbrew is AoS2 nerfing shooting into the ground. The Haggnarr bit is wrong too. It's not the 5+fnp, it's the prayer that lets you reroll it that's the problem. Haggnarr by itself is mostly just 'good'. All you need to take the edge off of DoK is bump Hag Queens to 100, and Witch Aelves to 110-330 (though even 300 would be fine) and lose the horde bonus on SoS. Your typical DoK list would be up 160+pts, which means you have to pick 2 between prayers, objective control, or a decent magic phase. If you wanted a harsher nerf than that then DoK deserve compensation. Bloodstalkers are basically useless, lifetakers are literally JUST a tax you pay for Cauldron guard, Medusa are too expensive, the bloodwrack shrine is too expensive, warlocks are too expensive, Avatars of Khaine are too expensive, slaughter queens on foot are too expensive considering their command ability is unusable in most situations. At least some of these need to be fixed if you seriously want half the nerfs people in this thread have suggested.

They changed the pile in rules in AoS2 to make things like this easier to pull off. I don't think it's a loophole at all.

The most frustrating games I play are due to people, not the game. Generally I'm okay losing (immediately after, at the table I do salt up a bit, but as soon as the game is called I'm over it) it's only when people are jerks that I actually get down on the game. The most common one I run into are the people who throw up their hands and start raging about imbalance waaay too early. I've won games I should have gotten decimated in by winning a turn a role and them sending themselves into a despair spiral.

Like you said, it's not going away. Hag Queen are gonna jump up 20-40 points and WE and SoS are gonna lose their horde bonuses, in all likelyhood. If it did go away, that would be serious bad news bears. I don't actually give a ****** about the battleshock thing, losing reroll to wounds would wipe out WE and severely weaken SoS, on top of making taking hag queens a hard sell. The amount of damage you lose out on being forced to roll 4+ is exceptionally high. Without witchbrew, you'd be looking at less WE and SoS overall, with the remaining number being predominately SoS for their utility. You'd also see far more blood sisters and a shift away from prayers and towards more investment in spells.

With the new battletome nerfing dracoths, they're not really very good at 1000pts anymore. Personally, at 1000pts I wouldn't play stormcasts at all. They're one of the worst downscaling armies in the game. If you wanted to try it anyway, I would go full shooty 1× Lord Ordinator (140pts) 1x 3 Vanguard Raptors (180) 3x 5 Judicators (480pts) 2x Celestar Ballista (200pts)

Not to be that guy but no it isn't and no you won't. Aetherwings have very limited area denial in very limited situations and drain a full CP worth of points for a small chance of tripping up a bad deepstrike stormcast player. The stormcast battletome is very straightforward. Take Sequitors and Evocators and things that support sequitors and evocators, sprinkle Celestar ballista for color. Everything else is either a meta specific choice or a s**ts and giggles option.