Kurrilino

So, removing 90% of StD core units and replace them with units from other books makes StD more competitive. Yep, that will definitely do, reducing StD players hate of a horrible written book.

Ahhh the regular, you have another opinion please go away i don't want to be confronted with it.

Actually a forum is ment to be a place to exchange opinions. If people just come here for shoulder tapping and to ecco a single opinion, i don't need a forum. What about you lead by example and present people here a nice working list that is at least remotely able to not being seal clubbed. Just show us how wrong we are. I just came from a tournament where i chose Nighthaunt instead StD and i tabled all of my StD opponents purely because i play WoC since 10+ years. It wasn't even enjoyable because there is not much they can do about. As soon as an opponent has strong dispel you shove Marauders where the sun never shines and most armies have now an automatic dispel and 30 reapers don't even get warm ripping apart a whole unit of marauders. I know there are very few shiny things in the book but they only work on paper.

You are welcome

I can't tell if serious. Those guys put random matchup into a table which includes something like Idoneth have 50% win and Tzennch 47% winning rate. At this point you already know the data is flawed. You also ignore the meta% which shows you how popular at tournament is and we get a whopping 3.22% So we know that StD are one of the most popular faction but one of the least chosen army for tournaments. If that is not telling you something then i don't know what to say. Yes, you can maybe squeeze somehow an army into 2000 points, but do people have fun or chose them to play??? Answer is a big NO. Mostly caused by people have written the book who have no clue what WoC are actually are and how do marks work. They somehow paired that with being as uninspired as possible. This is what people complain about.

Khorne mark +attack Nurgle -1 to hit Tzeench +1 to wardsave /spellcasting Slaneesh run and charge, no battleshock Units are assigned a mark, no heroes needed to babysit. chariots 100 points 5 Knights 150 points Warriors -1 rend. Marauders need severe nerf in everything Make the last half of the book interact with the batteltome. Remove those rediculous rules where every model in the unit has it's own rule. Create battalions according to what the units in it actually do. Example the "Warshrine Battalion" would make warshrine prayer go of on 2+ instead 3+ Eye of the gods table needs to be meaningfull since you have to jump through so many loops. Remove to spawn units. Get rewarded for every killed unit or hero, not just 1 time at the end of the round and let the results stack. Lord on mount ability should affect heroes as well as knights and chariots. Gorebest chariot needs it's old rules back. The command abilities are god awful. It sounds cool to have ravagers who can use all command abilities but the abilities are meh at very best. So are the magic items. This is supposed to be a close combat army but we don't have a single combat relevant magic item.

The first 2 are one group of Marauders . If spelled right it would be (Marauders,Marauders) and Marauders. The first group is so marauders heavy that the unit is called "Marauders,Marauders" Or maybe he has some insight into a beta version of a new battalion called that. According to the existing synergies i guess it let you reroll spell rolls made by marauder units and they get every mark but you have to chose which one at the beginning of the game.

Dear God please no. This would be a ****** show of a battletome

i don't know... if half of the units don't even interact with the book i would call it an utter failure.. I really don't care about being competitive or tournaments. I just want to have fun and so far i don't have any. Neither building lists or playing.

I guess people agree that we don't even want this super special book. We only want a playable book. AS book where you have options and the options do something. Best example is the shrine battalion. It wouldn't hurt anyone at all if the shrine battalion would let the shrine prayer go off on a 2+ instead a 3+. This has nothing to do with over powered. What we actually got is a battalion where the warshrine hits someone on a 6+ and does d3 mortal wounds. Why marauders are stronger and cheaper than warriors is far beyond me. And would a 3rd attack really make Knights overpowered especially when you have to run them with a 250+ point lord? It's stuff like that that makes people vomit on their minis not that they want a special snowflake book.

Dont' worry about being honest. This is exactly what we need. And i share most of your opinions. The design flaws in this book are unbelievable. You have to do either or. There is nothing like having 1 or 2 anvils in the middle and something like Knights shredding the flanks and turn into the hammer. Points will just forbid it. And you are forced to take Marauders if you don't want to turn your list into a laughing stock. Problem with that is, they are a pure glass cannon. The Knights rely on being with mounted Lord AND Lord of chaos to make them work. Problem is the speed of the Lord and you are locked into a despoilers list because you need the command points. So you end up playing despoilers without despoilers. I saw that directly when i read the book first and it was confirmed in several games. Since i don't like Marauders at all i am forced to go back to Nurgle or Tzeench. Especially Tzeench benefits from StD since Tzeench is doing everything better then any choices we have in the StD book. Basically you play an upgraded cabalist version with better magic artefacts and command abilities. Suddenly all problems from the StD book are cancelled, using the exact same units. Even the to be weak considered Maggotkin book starts shining. It's such a shame

Yeah uhmm.... the chosen of all gods. Or the Marauders are way better fighters than their ascended brothers, the Warriors of Chaos. Not to mention how the last half of the model range even landed in our book. I strongly believe the people who wrote this mess of a book had no idea what or who the StD are. If i wouldn't know better i would guess JJ Abrahms wrote this book. Like the Star Trekk universe of peace, diplomacy and exploration turned into Star Ship Rampage at a war zone.

I am not a power gamer at all and i love my Slaves. This is why i won't change The point i try to make is that if you take a similar unit to ours from another army our unit always loses just by statistics but all of our units cost way more than those other units. It has always been like that but we had marks to make up for that, which they removed. Khorne was +1 attack, Nurgle was -1 to hit, Tzeench was +1 to ward. This way you could outfit an overpriced unit and made it a fair priced unit.

Great, we have a one trick pony here. And as the Fireslayer have shown, easy to counter if we don't get the first turn or the necessary spells off. Nothing to see here. Call me when he end top tier in some more tournaments

Please enlighten us

Mind Kitty is our friend here

I believe Thamurkan's Horde is the sub faction.

This is because they are build to be charger and nothing else. Entangle an enemy unit and charge in. Make sure you can defeat the unit first

Actually i play lances and only on units that are already entangled

Well if that helps, there is something viable. Ravagers with 4 Gaunt summoners, The rest filled out with Ruinbringer Battallion and Chariots and a mind stealer The opponent will have to deal with 200 extra wounds from Pink Horrors and 50 extra models from Ravagers, preferable Golems. While those guys just stay on objects the chariots run around and hit the entangled enemy units for d3 impact mortal wounds each. Mostly you don't even have to fight. And even if you have to, the mind stealer is your best friend making the enemy unit strike last. I win lots of games playing like that but again all this has nothing to do with playing warhammer. It looks like an overcrowded country fair and you watch the bumper cars.

The Knights are not the problem. If you run 10 in one unit and have a demon mount hero and a regular Chaos Lord around they are deadly in a charge. Problem with that is we have to play despoilers for that with the d3 command point per turn. It also excludes the demon princes because they are not contributing anything to that combo. We are just back to square one, where we play Despoilers without Despoilers. This is really no fun

If you use StD with Tzeench you can make them hald descend and fun to play. Many shenanigans going on. But again, this has nothing to do with StD and would hold my breath to see a juicy StD list. There is just no synergy.

I am absolutely with you here. This book feels like a slap into the face. A very easy pass.

Wow,this is bad... so incredible bad. I always wondered why nobody has ever taken Tamurkan. Now i know why. An artefact of power, one time per game doing 1 mortal wound. And for that you have to roll a 4+ Commanability: ad 1 to run What the ****** has all that to do with nurgle or a viable list

Does this sound like a StD list to you?