Lucur

I'm curious how Liberators with twin weapons do, considering they effectively lose 1 save, they better pack a punch...

General move seems to be 10-15 % increase with some units well above and a few below those values (e.g. Liberators 90-> 95, Wardems 120->145).

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I just now realized how good the allegiance (pick 2 units to fight consecutively) will be with MSU forced upon most armies ^^ not that it wasn't good before, but now...

My reasoning to run 6 was a) stacking buffs and b) enough average MW to snipe a character while attacking another close unit. The former isn't that different, you get more out of your CP, casts and prayers. The latter is probably gone, if most heroes go to 6+ wounds. Also depends on points ofc.

I thought it triggered when a unit is targeted with an attack, which unleash hell should fulfil? Interesting interaction to check, if that is the case, you're totally right. On second thought, this might be yet a better argument for complementig the cats with deepstrike chargers and/or Palladors, if the latter charge the shooters first, hell can't be unleashed on the cats.

With what we have so far and Dominion on the horizon i want to throw some ideas around how to use dracolines going forward. My preferred style (deathstar with all the buffs) is not necessary anymore: Lord Arcanum with prode leader was always hard to get on a large unit and we get all out attack through the prime anyways. Chrono cogs no longer reroll saves, so those are out. Castellant lantern (if it stays how it is) is still solid but could be replaced with the strat, because the old man is slower than the cats. At the end of the day Kittycators seem self sufficient, except for a Heraldor (IF that stays the same). With all that flexibility, what do we add to support everyone's favorite thundercats? My thoughts are: a unit or two of Annihilators plus Lord Important to pose a deepstrike threat and ****** opponent's pile in. Some Palladors to sneak objectives that don't justify pulling the cats away, as they are the killy part. The rest of the list would be shooting (Judicators/ Raptors, ballistas we'll have to see how the Lordinator turns out) and some speedbumps (aetherwings, Liberators, gryphhounds if cheap). With what the new strats do and the Dracolines casting empower on themselves i see no need for caster support, unless we get some gems in new spell lores. The new Vindictors seem like a strong, self-sufficient pick, too, but are quite pricey at 140/5, so not sure if those fit. So, what are your thoughts on old cats in new clothes?

Positive modifiers to save cap at +1. Do shields count towards that? Like, does a mystic shield on Liberators with shields take them to 2+? Because if it does, i dread the day i have to fight 3+sv goblins

You could run 2x6 raptors, anything more is off the table.

Besides anvilstrike and 30 liberator stormkeep lists, no. With more CP 2x6 longstrikes could be just as viable and i've personally never seen more than 15 libs on one table. My poor 30 Sequitors though

That could be circumvented by generating/ recovering extra cp, though. That's what dominated early 8th ed 40k, the so called cp-farm. Whether that will be possible depends on 3rd ed rule set of course.

Would that be the king of phoenixes? One could say, a phoenix king? Yeah, I'll see myself out.

To me, Annihilator value will depend on the points cost (compared to what all the new points costs will be, considering we get the ghb along with the rulebook). If they are cheap enough that the loss of a small unit is acceptable, they will find play at least as a distraction. A unit of three poses enough of a threat to justify some screening for shooty units or support heroes. If you get a credible threat in your opponent's face they will have to screen multiple angles or not spread out to control the board. If the annihilators are too expensive for that they'll be gavbomb 1.1 which is fun for a bit and not per se bad, but not top tier.

I feel ya, i had the same issues at the beginning of 2nd, when SCE were arguably more powerful than most armies, of winning a few to many games and then suffering for it for the rest of time. I hate it when people wipe my army by turn 3 and still explain to me which of my units are op in which way

That would be "crusade" in 40k. I hope we don't get too much ally stuff in the book. Not that i mind options, i just don't want to play a mixed GAOrder/CoS force and i'd rather see all effort put into the SCE tome benefit SCE rules and (internal) balance.

It's less that SCE are super powerful, though the units themselves are okay warscrolls. The things that drag SC down at 2k pts is synergy and base-/ unit sizes. With larger units and more interactions between multiple units other armies outclass SCE, while at smaller scales we do pretty well.

I think we already are AoSs Avatar of Khaine. Superpowerful in the lore, but only there to die to prove someone else is even more badass.

Tempestors aren't even a unit so i didn't consider them 🤭

Desolators have the added advantage of wounds per points, they might decline in damage, but they can soak up more. Pure damage per points Concussors win, even against Fulminators on the charge (against 4+ that is, Fulminators are also tankier v shooting). It's actually nicely balanced for a change 😄

You do that picture with all models built and painted and i'm impressed Totally not jealous or anything...

I guess that's a bit oversimplified. There's also a lot of peopke that aspire to competitive play but can't get tourneys in due to other reasons. My local 40k group is pretty much like this. I think most people focus on relaxed beer and brezel hammer, but there's certainly overlap and large regional differences.

That's hyperbole for ya I also didn't say it won't be overly strong, just that we don't know yet (or didn't know at that point, yeah the shrine seems a bit much). Okay maybe i was a bit too over the top in my choice of words. Still my point is, i get mad when people tell me how evocators are op while they stomp my army. Not because their book is better, i play warhammer for long enough to know that rules and powerlevel rise and fall. It's the entitlement that annoys me. And from there i don't get how we as SCE players, who suffer from that behavior since day 1 of AoS, turn around and point the same finger at others. Maybe i get old or have a sentimental phase...

That's the same inflated BS we had/ have to endure regarding Evocators and how Sequitors are so op and omg Longstrikes and lalalala. Don't you realize you use the same bigotry you so despise when someone else does it regarding YOUR army? Plus half your arguments are halfbaked at best, we don't know if they are BL, we don't know their points, we don't know if they get sunmetal at all (and for 5+ they have to cast and not be unbound). I'm not a mod and have no authority over what and how you write, but please revise that stuff and take a breath and think what you'd think if it hit your army. PS: No, i don't even play LRL

Considering the UK left the EU in January 2020 but kept acces to the EU market until 2021 i can't imagine that is a correct statement. And while EU membership doesn't allow individual bilateral trade agreements while having access to the market, preparations and negotiations for such agreements are not restricted by EU mebership. They just can't take effect before leaving. Customs facilities on the borders UK side are on the other hand still not properly built/ equpped today. Go figure how bad the EU treats the poor brits... Politics aside, a lot of GW products are produced in china, be it a part of brexit or not i'd guess local differences in pandemic management would set up international delivery. Add to that that GW facilities were affected by lockdowns during the last year, just a month of hickups is actually a pretty good showing.