Starfyre

Floating rocks is *surely* Lumineth Wave 3? I'll get my coat...

Thanks for sharing. What I really like about this is that the results come from generalship. Clearly knows the book in the meta isn't considered great, but through playing them well, he's got results.

GW have been knocking it out the park recently, and the dragons are nearly there. But the smile, the wing-wave, and the little toothy-peg sticking out Blue's mouth just make it a miss for me.

Not that this is the heart of the argument, but I’m intrigued, since when we’re GW a billion dollar company and not a £250-ish company? Something I’m missing? Just curious!

Part of me thinks the release schedule will be tied to the narrative (or more accurately, the narrative woven around the release schedule) - with the GHB saying that the setting for the next year is Ghur, I wonder if between this one and the next, the releases will all tie in with the places on the map i.e. Kruleboyz, Ogres, Moulder skaven, BoC (thunderscorn peaks so a Shaggoth), and Seraphon, and then when it moves on to the next location the releases will all be tied there. Seems a lot to release in a year, but assuming they're all battletomes, some with a single model release or single model + endless spells, and perhaps 1 range overhaul of say Seraphon, could be doable, particularly in a battlebox/release-two-battletomes-at-the-same-time kind of way. I mean, surely no-one sat down to sculpt Kroak and not a plastic Slaan at the same time. I see a lot of people expecting a Dawnbringer Crusade faction - IMHO, this is only a narrative construct, like the Indomitus crusade. I believe SCE are the crusaders. I think if they were going to do it, they'd have done it in the launch box.

They've already given us a massive preview of new minis! We'll have to wait for anything else...

Great insights, thanks! Do we know which of these armies won these tournaments? Also, the number of SGL is really interesting - is it that the lists are Nagash heavy, that it's a new army so fewer will have played against it, or something else that makes people think it'll be competitive against what else was brought?

Yep! Which is something some other kits suffer from, because they're designed to be like, contained. Dark Elves are a great example of that. Black Guard are ace, but very static so they can rank. Chaos Warriors too. Yeah the BB and Underworld Orruks are cool, bet that units looks nice.

Fun fact: Ardboyz were the first GW unit released that was 3D sculpted. Which uh, also tells you old they are. Ardboyz are very much the reason I haven't started an Orruk warclans force, because I kinda assume at SOME point they'll get redone, like Chaos Warriors did (in a Getting Started set, for some reason). Same with Saurus and Skinks. They've been digitally sculpted for the underworlds kits, so they must be coming at some point... Maybe.

The 40K Beast Snagga's show how awesome 'modern' Bonesplitterz could really look as well.

I'm expecting Kruleboyz will get sub-factions like Drakkfoot and Bloodtoofs, perhaps that make some of the monsters Batteline. Really like that the Kruleboyz are monster heavy, gives them their own place in Orruk Warclans alongside Bonesplitterz and Ironjawz. Shaping up to be a great army IMHO. And with all the extra VP in the GHB for monsters doing stuff, being monster-heavy isn't a bad thing either. I do wish the Bolt boyz were units of 10 though, they are such nice models!

That literally will not happen - Thunderstrike is just a different aesthetic, like Sacrosanct was, like Vanguard was. They're armour types like the SM armour Marks, gravis armour, reiver etc. Other than, they're just going through the archetypical standard armaments - sword & shield, hammer & shield, two-handed sword/axe/hammer/glaive/staves, spear & shield, mace & shield, halberds, etc. Nothing surprising about any of that. Pretty sure the only weapon not covered by SCE from original WHFB is the flail! 'Primaris' are just the 'true-scales' marines everyone said they wanted. 'Oldcast' is going nowhere. Hopefully the new books makes the old models good - like how StD made the Marauders good, one of the most dated kits in their entire range (even when they're like 8+ warbands of Chaos cultists that could have taken their place) and Seraphon made the resin Salamander really good, or how loads of people buy lots of Skinks. The profit margins on those sprues (that cost them literal pennies each) must be wild since the tooling would have been paid off years and years ago. New kruleboyz story was really good, the Orruk was really well written.

2 games of 3rd edition @ 1500pts against FEC today. Opponent's blisterskin list was 1 Archregent, 1 Varghulf Courtier, 1 Ghast Courtier, 2 x 20 Ghouls, 3 Flayers, 3 Horrors and a Terrorgheist, all wrapped in a Battle Regiment. I tried a few things I wouldn't normally take (also don't have Dominion): Celestial Vindicators - Knight-Zephyros, Castellant, Vexillor, Incantor, 2 x 5 Sequitors, 5 Decimators, 5 Retributors, 5 Judicators and 10 Phoenix Guard. I took Warlord, Battle Regiment and the Hunters battalions. One thing to note, we only played on 2 boards, 30 x 44", so it was a bit tight, but honestly I don't think it impeded the game except for it was really hard to find space to deepstrike in the first game - got around that by killing stuff though! Game 1: Marking territory: really simple one to get started with the new rules. No surprise given the small board but I was first turn charged by the Terrorgheist, Horrors and Flayers. This was planned for, the Sequitors and Phoenix Guard chosen for their abilities to negate mortal wounds, and they made good anvils for the Retributors to work off. Favourite moment was when the Castellant claimed the Terrorgheist, for it to explode and kill his Gryph-hound as retribution. In the end, took a major victory in Turn 3 after capturing all the objectives. Decimators descended from the sky to take MVP, chomping through both the Ghoul packs. They love the new coherency rules in their anti-horde role. The Zephyros was deployed incorrectly and on the one turn she got into combat, with the Stormrage Blade and Single-Minded Fury, did absolutely nothing. Verdict on the rules: We tried the new core rules. I found I had loads of Command Points as I kept going second, made use of Heroic Leadership, Recovery and Their Finest Hour, as well as Unleash Hell to chip the Terrorgheist, Redeploy to get my Retributors out of charge range of the Crypt Flayers, and a few uses of All-Out Attack as well. Game 2: Power Struggle. This time used a Grand Strategy and Battle Tactics, which made a difference. Once again I was first-turn charged, this time by the Horrors and the Flayers who were paired with the Varghulf. The opponent took the initiative to use Monstrous Takeover with the Terrorgheist on the centre objective uncontested. The Flayer + Varghulf combo wiped out my right flank, claiming 5 Sequitors, 5 Retributors, and 5 Judicators, taking an early lead on VP. The Phoenix Guard did a load of damage to the Terrorgheist, who promptly swallowed them with 12 mortal wounds after previously blasted them with death shriek, and then killed the Incantor who had valiantly/stupidly ran in with Spirit Flasks trying to claim his final wounds (I admit, I was a bit gung-ho but I definitely thought I'd already lost the game by turn 2. Between his flasks and his attacks, I got him down to 2 remaining before the 'gheist eventually claimed him too...) However, the other unit of Sequitors claimed the Horrors, finished off the Terrorgheist (with Bring it Down for extra VP) and slaughtered 12 of the Crypt Ghouls before dying. Couple of great moments where my Zephyros failed to do any damage to the Horrors, took on the Archregent and failed to do any meaningful damage to him, took a pot-shot with her pistol at the 2-wound Terrorgheist and missed - despite trying various combos of their finest hour, all-out attack, and righteous hatred. She was eventually killed in action. Second best moment was when my loyal Gryph-Hound, Hawkwind, had to out of necessity claim the central objective. I realised my opponent was gearing up to snipe him with a spell so I gave my Castellant Heroic Willpower only for him to fail his Unbind and watch as his companion was obliterated by the Archregent's Miasmal Shroud. In the end, after working hard on the objectives and the battle tactics, I went into my final turn in the final round 2 VP behind, with 3VP from his grand strategy looking like it was going to be won. My opponent's grand strategy was Hold the Line which required him to have one of his battleline units still on the board - mine was Vendetta and required me to kill the general and not lose mine, both parts of which the Knight-Zephyros failed miserably at. With 8 ghouls remaining, it all came down to the Decimators, who had already claimed the other pack of 20 Crypt Ghouls (again) earlier in the game after once again descending from on-high to deal a stupid number of attacks. They teleported thanks to the Vexillor's Pennant of the Stormbringer, and made their charge without needing a re-roll. With actual thunder in the skies of Nottingham booming outside, they attacked, and my opponent needed to make at least 4 of his 6+ ward saves to win... He managed 2, meaning with the last roll of the game I prevented his grand strategy and won the game, claiming 3 VP from objectives to finish 1 VP ahead. All that remained were the Arch-regent, Varghulf, the Castellant, 4 Decimators and the Vexillor. Very, very tight. Verdict on the rules: The Grand Strategy and Battle Tactics definitely added another dimension to the game, forcing us off objectives and adapting our strategy, meaning it wasn't just a carbon copy of our previous game. Admittedly, the lists aren't tournament winning, but it was fun to play with the new rules, even if we did forget some of our army's abilities here and there. Some great moments, my gaming group have it in for poor old Hawkwind (a distraction carnifex if ever there was one), and some interesting new tactics to try. We also didn't play ALL the realm rules, so that's something for next time. Overall thoughts: Firstly it was nice to play some games. Secondly the new additions largely improve the game in my opinion. We had no issues with coherency (then again, no cavalry or 32mm based infantry), or unleash hell (but neither army were set-up to maximise ranged attacks). Enjoyed the grand strategy and battle tactics, enjoyed how brilliant the Decimators were at cleaving through ghouls, laughed lots when the gryph-hound died, and everything felt quite balanced in all honesty. I had loads of Commands Points, especially when I kept going second. I could have used them better, I forgot Rally and probably could have used Redeploy more. In these two games, the CP from the Warlord battalion was pointless. Didn't see enough of monstrous rampages, but playing through and reading the rules properly, the extra opportunities monsters have to claim VP seems to make them really quite important. I won't be playing the Zephyros again - she is dumped. Final note - the format of the GBH 21 is very good, the rules reference on the back listing all the command abilities is pretty handy. Only gripe is the font is VERY small. I only started writing this as a quick recap, but I guess that's a sign that today was a good day of gaming. Look forward to trying out some new lists and some of the other battleplans and rules soon, before the new Battletome drops in August.

Had two games with the new edition today and enjoyed them! Command points were plentiful, the heroic actions useful but with only 1 of us having a monster, and only 1 monster at that, we didn't really get to play too much with the Monstrous Rampage rules. Coherency only became a minor issue once. We tried the grand strategies and battle tactics in our second game, after getting to grips with the new additions in the first game. They made a difference, I won the second game by denying my opponent's grand strategy in the last combat phase of turn 5. That being said, I don't think we quite got all our army rules correct - but then again, there is SO much to remember, so many little fiddly interactions. I wouldn't say either of our armies were geared toward exploiting the rules, just two fairly casual lists - 1500pt SCE Celestial Vindicators versus FEC. But with so many ways of scoring extra VP with Monsters, can appreciate there's going to be ways of exploiting those. Core Battalions were interesting - I went for a Warlord, Battle regiment and Hunters, whereas my opponent crammed everything into a Battle Regiment, and chose to go first both games. Going second, the extra CP from the Warlord battalion wasn't worth it. My only gripe so far is how small the text in the GHB is! We also only played on a half size board, using the 2 boards from the 40K command edition because that's all that's fits on my table. So the game was fast. Looking forward to more - and a new SCE battletome as well!

Where's the re-roll 1 from the Castellant come from? Just asking because it's +1 save on the warscroll and I don't see it in the SCE FAQ? I'm playing one tomorrow so just want to make sure I've got it right it. On an aside, has anyone experimented with using Daemonettes as Battleline in a starting army with the new rules/battletome? Sure, expensive at 140 points now, but they are still fast, have rend, and 25mm bases making getting those attacks in that bit easier. Reinforced, there's extra bodies for objective capturing as well. I'd kinda forgotten that the daemonette and seeker scrolls actually seem pretty good, because I'd spent so much time looking at the mortals. Just wondering if there might be legs in actually starting some daemon units, as most are going mortal to summon daemons in later - which I completely get and I'm very much on that path as well. Or I was, kinda glad I held off pushing the button on spending £100+ on 4 boxes of Painbringers two days ago

First game of 3rd edition tomorrow versus FEC. I don't have any of the new Dominion stuff, so I'm going to try the following Celestial Vindicators list to start: Warlord Battalion 1 Knight-Zephyros 110 General, Single-Minded Fury, Stormrage Blade, 1 Knight-Incantor 130 Azyrite Halo, Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield, Spirit Storm 1 Knight-Vexillor 120 5 Decimators 185 Battle Regiment 1 Castellant 130 Amulet of Destiny (5+ Ward) 5 Sequitors 130 5 Sequitors 130 5 Judicators 150 Skybolt Bows, Shockbolt Bow Hunters of the Heartlands 5 Retributors 205 2 Starsoul Maces 10 Phoenix Guard 175 1465 My opponent will have two blocks of 20 Ghouls so the Vexillor and Decimators will pair up in the sky, along with the Knight-Zephyros to target the Ghoul hero and arch-regent and make use of the ability to re-roll charges. Phoenix Guard and Retributors are a hammer and anvil to tackle the Terrorgheist and/or Crypt Flayers, with the Judicators just sat off the Phoenix Guard for Unleash Hell and softening them up. The rest is there for objective scoring, dealing with summoned units and supporting should anything else go awry. I kept Sequitors for the 5+ ward against mortal wound damage from the Flayers/Terrorgheist. With my former go-to of "try-not-to-die" Staunch Defender + Castellant + 10 Sequitors, this'll be bit more aggressive than I'd normally play!

Personally my view on summoning is that it's very fluffy and fits the central theme of Slaanesh, in that daemons are attracted to the excess of pain and summoning throughout the battle. Not necessarily the killing, but the protracted battle, because it's, you know, excessive. Just kill them! And as more pain and suffering occurs on both sides, the more daemons are attracted to the battle. I don't think it's like a hero actively decides to open a portal and bring this unit into the battle, maybe like a necromancer or Slaan would, but rather these portals open as the orgy of blood and violence continues, and as a player we just happen to get to choose what comes through.

Really insightful posts, thanks. Makes me feel better about potentially starting this army! I had a couple of questions if you don't mind? 1) Do you feel the Twin Souls need the Shardspeaker to be effective? I'd like to use the Epitome instead, which is obviously a fair bit more points 2) Have you tried Blissbarb seekers? I'm wondering if they might be better than either the Slickblades or the Blissbarb archers? -- On a different note, regarding the comments above about the Exalted chariot, the Flaming Weapons spell can get her 9 Piercing Claw attacks to Damage 2. Then Hunter of Godbeasts to make it Damage 3 against Monsters, and since that's Pretenders and if she were general, could also have Strength of Godhood to make one of those hits be Damage 4 against Monsters I guess, or Damage 3 against something else (without Hunter of Godbeasts). Assuming I'm reading it right... I like the fact that Sliverslash could make it 10 attacks, or just take Armour if Destiny to keep it a bit more protected. Oh yeah, and extra attacks from Soulscent.

Me too, totally

I'm quite liking the look of the Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot, when coupled with Their Finest Hour, All Out attack and Flaming Weapon. I'll be playing 1500pts I think, so at 265pts it seems a bit more palatable in this game size than a KoS and we don't tend to play with named characters in my group. Am I right in thinking if you get all that off it's: Piercing Claws - 9 2+/3+/-1/2 Flensing Whip - 6 2+/3+/-1/1 Poisoned Tongue - 8 2+/3+/0/1 +1 to hit on attacks from All-Out Attack, +1 to Wound on attacks from their finest hour (and +1 save), and +1 damage to a weapon from Flaming Weapon. Plus any additional attacks from Pungent Soulscent, it's innate mortal wound damage on the charge, or buffs from command traits or artifacts. Could get re-roll charges with Battle-Lust and get a 5+ Ward Save from Amulet of Destiny perhaps, Wondering if something like this would be interesting at 1500 points: Invaders Warlord Battalion 1 Bladebringer on Exalted Chariot 265 General, Battle-lust, Flaming Weapon, Amulet of Destiny 1 The Contorted Epitome 255 General, Rod of Misrule, Hysterical Frenzy 1 Lord of Pain 155 General 5 Painbringers 160 Battleline 5 Painbringers 160 Battleline 5 Slickblade Seekers 230 5 Blissbarb Seekers 220 1445 Plus an endless spell or a triumph to get up to 1500 because army building is hard. I figure there's a mix of speed, staying power and mortal wound output for DP generation to bring in blocks of daemonettes or the KoS.

Stormcast with crossbows Stormcast with crossbow pistols Stormcast with grenade launcher crossbows Stormcast with heavy Bolter crossbows Stormcast with sniper crossbows Stormcast with giant crossbow i think that leaves Stormcast with plasma crossbows, flamer crossbows, spears with crossbows attached to them, digital crossbows and then variant ‘patterns’ of all of these. Edit: Maybe shields with built-in crossbows.

We don't know what Liberators or other Paladins will do in the new book so IMHO it's too early to say that the new models are better. Given how expensive tooling and design is, I cannot imagine any of the older Stormcast line is going anywhere for a long long time. There is no reason to drop them. GW can just keep churning out new armour types, like they do space marines, and make them all available to purchase. I don't think Kragnos will get an associated faction. One of the things I liked about Broken Realms Kragnos is that he's not a leader, he's very much a very powerful lone wolf the Orruks basically decided to hang out with as they had a common goal. For all the talk of him looking like a beastman, I think that's why he's so distinctly different looking from the rest of the destructions factions - he's an embodiment of destruction, not a leader in the traditional sense. He'll just turn up where the fighting is thickest (or where a frogman tells him 'here be dragons'.)

I don't really see why anyone would angry, upset or how anything is awful. No-one has seen all of the new rules for SCE yet. No-one has seen all the new rules in 3rd edition yet. There's some wicked new models, offering loads of choice and variety how a player, new or old, chooses to build their SCE army. It's pretty obvious there's a new battletome coming and of course the rules and warscrolls for some/most existing units are going to get an update. I mean, Broken Realms is just an exercise in test and learn IMHO. All Dominion offers is an alt cover, a discount and you have to get the other army as well. Everything will be available separately. The chariot is boss, I personally don't like the helmeted head of the Lord-Imperant, looks smaller than the unhelmeted version.

Why are they difficult to build?

Great feedback, thanks!