Maddpainting

I know 3 players and I am actually painting a Slaanesh army for one of them now. I honestly think they are fine b.c they still have some heroes and tools that are out of this world compare to us. You just don't play like you used to with them anymore. If I could take Sigvald I would every game, dude is a monster.

So after playing a game I can say I like it a lot. There are still things I do not like (coherency for example, i hate it) but I do like it more than 2.0. The way Heroic, Monstrous commands work, and all the CP we get, it really adds to the game. Enlighten felt great compare to Bestigors, sure bestigors has better saves so I still want both, sadly Bestigors damage is way lower now. The Cockatrice did wonderful lol. For sure taking at least 2 every game. Tany Shaggoth worked really well at staying alive but man his damage sucks.

We are a weaker book for sure, but that doesn't mean we can not win, the problem is now that 3.0 is coming out and the game is so hugely change it is very hard to say if we are weaker by a lot or by a little as many armies (other than a few) has lost a lot of their damage. I would at least wait till we get the 3.0 FAQs for each army and play some games to understand 3.0 enough to know what is strong and what is not. Yes Wizards and Shooting is still really strong, but we do have tools at least.

Raiders are amazing, you don't take them in large units, just 10 mans to screen with pre-games, help some missions, etc.. I have been playing raiders sense day 1 and i'm not stopping now, their usefulness is way to good. Cockatrices were good before and now there is more reasons to take them, being 20pts over Gors they are amazing distraction units, and if they don't handle them some MW's and Monster abilities could make enemy units not use command, or kill terrain, etc... Tzaangors with Shield and Great weapons is something I am thinking about too b.c you can bring back some with Rally and Tzaangor Shamans, I am most likely going to summon them here and there. I also will make a list with 10 of them. I am looking forward to playing them actually. But I want to test out my first list a few times.

My new list so far to test out is Shaggoth, Amulet of Destiny, Adamantine Scares Shaman Shaman T-shaman Gors Gors Gors Raiders Raiders Bestigors Bestigors Bestigors Enlighten on foot Enlighten on foot Enlighten on foot Enlighten on foot Cockatrice Cockatrice Cockatrice Warlord, Vanguard, and Hunters of the Heartland detachments

Going off the numbers blades vs spears, you are talking about 3 Damage on average with a 30 block and getting 25 in range vs 5+ saves. 17 Blades in range is equal damage in a 30 block (for re-roll 1's). Is 3 damage really worth it? no lol. Ungors are not there for damage at all, we don't have buffs like all other horde armies/units.

This says the opposite, just b.c they are "looked down on" doesn't mean it doesn't happen, this to me says they can and do go the way of chaos Gods but the true Greatfrays think they are better (Which has always been the lore).

EDIT Added Pic Leaders Beastlord +5 Doombull +15 Dragon Ogor Shaggoth +15 Grashrak Fellhoof +10 Great-Bray Shaman 0 Tzaangor Shaman -15 Units 10 x Gors +5 10 x Ungors +10 Bestigors +15 Bullgors +15 Centigors +10 Chaos Spawn +5 Chaos Warhounds 0 Cockatrice +5 Dragon Ogors +20 Razorgors +5 Tuskgor Chariots +5 Tzaangor Enlightened -5 Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc 0 Tzaangor Skyfires -5 Tzaangors of Beasts of Chaos -5 Ungor Raiders +10 Behemoths Chaos Gargant +10 Chimera 0 Cygor 0 Ghorgon +10 Jabberslythe +5 Endless Spells Wildfire Taurus +30 Doomblast Dirgehorn -5 Ravening Direflock +10

Meh, i'm tired of wish listing. I'm just waiting for the faqs and having fun playing 3.0 for now.

What do you mean?

We were top army for months after our 2.0 book came out then spiked again pre CP nerf, we were nerf not once but 3 times b.c of a few units (Mostly Tzeentch units) and Summoning lists. I went again the top player and team with BoC during those times at Majors with a large showing of BoC players. So while we are down as of right now, just a few minor tweaks can put us back on top. We are equal to Deepkin in speed, have lots of throw away units unlike Deepkin and other armies a like, a better endless spell (If we can get it off lol), access to cheap fly monsters, and weirdly we have a lot of buffs, they are just hard to get them off. We do have some of the worst warscrolls sure, but like I said, any good minor change can unbalance us as we have seen in the past a couple times now. BoC is hard to balance when you can make a glass cannon army charge turn 1. I've been playing beastmen/BoC sense they were with Hordes/Champions of chaos (I still have my really old chaos warriors, they ones that look like they are squatting lol), BoC is in a hugely better place than all of fantasy IMO, and for the most part outside of 1/3 of the warscrolls are just bad, Monsters has no real support, at least Brayherd and Warherd are playable and winable, you just need to be happy with losing 90% of your army to do so while only killing 40-50% of theirs lol. With that said, how are BoC in 3.0 pre FAQs? Over all they lost Marks which a lot of players love, some units no longer get their full buffs b.c they can not be reinforced to gain them, 50/90mm based with a 1" each units really suck to even reinforce them at all, but we have cheap Monsters, great at MSU, get take Core battalions for days. So this is going to effect different player differently, some it completely destroyed their armies, others like me are fine. Cons Reinforcements limit hurts us, some units wanted to be larger to gain buffs, Raiders can't even double reinforce to gain their horde buff anymore. No more Battalions, BoC was a book completely built around always taking one, IDK any player that would never take a Battalion, the book was purposed for them. Very sad to see them go Marks are now gone, something all BoC players has been asking for a general rule to be marked instead of a Battalion, hopefully this will be FAQed Coherency hits everyone and BoC too. We relied on Bestigor, Bullgors, and Enlighten for our damage, Bestigors worked in MSU b.c of Gavespawn, Bullgors or Enlighten could be 6 mans and still work and Gavespawn helped too. But Bestigors are 32mm with 1", Bullgors are 50mm with 1", and Enlighten are 40mm with 1" and a 2" though they are more costly so lose 1/2 the attacks is a big deal. Most of our shields are modifiers, while I believe they still stack until the roll (os +2 to save still works against rend 1 or higher) it does mean that no Rend is a nerf to our saves. Gors were only taken to charge units with no Rend, or take a charge while in cover with shields. This is the same for Centigors, Bullgors, etc.. shields are just not worth it anymore for the most part (like i said I believe they still work on rend) Buff stacking hurt everyone for sure, sadly BoC was only staying b.c of the buff stacking. While most armies are hurt by this so many armies are not that we could compete with them before, we might not be able to anymore now. Can not reliable do 1 drops anymore. BoC loved their 1 or 2 drop armies. Sad to see them go. While Monsters did get a buff, Ghorgon, Cygor, Giant, Chimera, and even the new Jabberscythe still isn't worth their points. They themselves just don't do enough and 1 of them getting 1 free abilities per turn isn't enough even ALL monsters gets that, so while all monsters got equally better, that just means ours are still bad. Pros Cheap flying Monster, the Cockatrice is cheap, has the Monster Keyword, can fly. Really easy to take multiples to disrupt the opponent and they were already fine to take. While we were hit, we can still do MSU just fine, 3 mans of Bullgors, Enlighten, MSU bestigors can still do something. BoC can still take cheap Doombulls as well. Dragon Ogres counts as 2 models how, meaning a 3 man will outnumber most other 3 mans and 5 mans as DO are 5 wounds. Having a pre-game movements and minor healing, they might be a solid pick for a chaff objective unit, basically an option other than a bunch of Ungors that dies twice as fast and are less damage. Not really viable to take a lot but 1 utility unit. Shaggoth got a big buff as he is a Hero and a Monster, with a Pregame move, some healer for himself already, able to cast a spell too that actually has some good spells (Just hope you don't fight Teclis or Kroat) the Traits and Relics he can take you can make him a monster beat stick hero or a much more tanky one, he also buffs DO's a bit, so him with a DO body guard unit might be much more viable and plays the missions well. Grashrak Fellhoof can now be taken in Core Battalions (He could not be taken in Warscroll Battalions). This is a big buff as he has a great spell and is perfect for using on the Herdstone. Pred Spells are better and we have one of the best in the game, it might be worth taking a Tzaangor Shaman to ensure it goes off now. Fight first with MW's is a huge buff when it can't backfire on you lol. Just hope you don't fight Teclis or Kroat. We have super cheap units and even 1 off models to charge in and eat up Unleash Hell command ability, from Razorgors, to Chariots, and much more.

Grashrak Fellhoof can finally fit into battalions now.

It the core rules they are 100% free, now if a GH comes out they could add points to them.

Dragon Ogres double for objectives. Shaggoths gets both Monster and Hero command abilities. In theory Shaggoths could be monster hunters now with its spells, Gavespawn Relic, New spell for +1D,a nd Monster/Heroic abilities to buff damage even more. You can be 6D, +1 to wounds, +1 to saves, and heal to keep you alive as well as some other things for options. Dragon Ogres counts as 2 models for objectives Cockatrices are Flying Monsters, they seem to be great if points don't change too much. Fast small screen and throw away units are insanely important to stopping and eating opponents "Unleash Hell" so Hounds, Razorgors, and Centigors for example (Furies if you like to ally). Battalions are free and easy for us to fill, we can have LOTS of free one time use command abilities., its nothing for us to take 5 of them. Yes we lost our 1 drop but more importantly other has gain 1 drops so its not like we can make sure to go first or second now anyways. Arcane bolt can be shot at any phase, so we can cast it outside of denial range and then use it later. MSU is looking like its going to be the norm, we can still do MSU very strong We can leave objectives and they can no longer take it without being wholly within. I'm still reading over the rules, will update more later.

Yeah, once per phase..... well you can do it eve turn I guess then lol. But IDK if +5 (or +4 meaningful points) is worth it, the Bravery bonus and re-roll charges might be good though.

Also CP's are use it or lose it each turn, so you can't save them, but you get over all more CP. Meaning Allherd could be better in general now if you spend you multi CP on your turn for Allherd and your CP on your opponents turn for abilities, or just Allherd for a couple turns then use them for damage later.

We know for sure warscroll battalions are open/narrative play only. While yes we need a faq for sure as do many others. I'm just going off what we know for now trying to make the best of it without the faqs (There are PDF's of the full core rules if you want to go see them).

I honestly only took Gavespawn b.c the heroes explode into Spawns and I love that. Actually... now we lost 1 drops (I mean true 1 drops) i might take a couple core battalions to get more heroes and some free small buffs lol.

Yeah, i am wondering about this too, it effects a lot of armies. But to just remove buffs in match play b.c you can't take enough models is odd of GW and I hope for a faq.

B.c it was with other rumors that many of use are sure are not true at all. And... well its rumors.

Won't happen.

Sure if you have some built like that. I mean if you don't care about WYSIWYG then it doesn't matter. But not all cav has that options. Also we have 50mm 1" melee units....

Yeah.... Dragon Ogres and all Cavalry type units too are in danger now.

Cities can do this really well, you can take Griffons for melee and they even have some with guns. They even have lots of HQ's that are mounted.

BCR's are really nice if you like mammoths.