Pangu

I think FEC is the easiest army for conversions in the history of GW. The delusion theme lends itself to almost anything. Carnival, Circus, Missionaries, Robin Hood, vampire hunters, etc.

In a Mordants list its very unlikely that a AGKoT since you are most likely need a courtier general to unlock a knight unit as battleline. If your general is an infernal its probably fine with his movement 12.

The movement is impressive, but without a hero within 12" to give them feeding frenzy its not very effective. Maybe its good for sending 3 flayers around the back of the army to pick off support?

Bullgors have a sheild option getting them a 4+ in combat. The default axe option is the same as a horrors attack but with rend -1. I was thinking bullgors where 140, but its been a while since I looked at their cost.

Ghoul patrol while not ideal has the lowest cost of entry of any of our battalions. I think its justifiable do to the Cp, artifact, extra mount trait.

I agree with most of this, however the number of actual players willing to take advantage of hordes are pretty rare. Most of the meta is still made up of moderate model count lists. It's expensive and time consuming to build and paint 120+ model lists. In a 5 game tournament you simply aren't going to run into that many horde armies so i dont think its that big a deal.

I think it will be viable to go all monsters just because the gristlegore traits are just that good. However, I think the most optimal list runs gristlegore with a couple ridden monsters, Minimum ghoul battleline, and spend the remaining points on arch Regents and a battalion.

There is no doubt that all of our potential battleline options are pretty bad, especially the knights. Compare Horrors to any other medium sized infantry, like Bullgors. Bullgors are considered a mediocre unit and they are better in almost every way, they are cheaper, do more damage, do mortal wounds, have a better save and a better heal. People are excited for Flayers thinking they are going to be this amazing alpha strike unit with deadwatch and blisterskin. There damage output is still really poor, they are completely reliant on Feeding Frenzy to do any work. That doesnt meld well with them flying off away from your army since you need to be completely within 12" of a hero to get the buff off. They are also so squishy that they are unlikely to survive the retaliation from your opponent to get to use the Deadwatch ability. This is easily the most overrated unit in the book and I feel people are going to be incredibly dissapointed when they get them on the table. They are best at hovering around the edges of the battlefield playing cleanup and picking off isolated units, they are not a hammer. Even ghouls are aweful if you compare them to similarly classed units. They are inferior in every way to Plague Monks and are vastly more expensive. All of our non-hero units are 30-40pts overcosted. This puts us in a situation where we are incentivized to max out on our overly efficient characters and minimize our other units. I actually think the podcast gives more credit to some units than they deserve. Anyways, they are very correct in that we have very limited competitive options. Either you go monster mash or you focus on abusing Archregents. Anything focused on knights cant get enough wounds or damage output on the table to be effective.

I think always strikes first is so powerful for any list running a monster that it outweighs any other option available to FEC. Everything else in gristlegore is just icing.

I largely agree. All of our battleline options are too poorly costed to be worth buying straight into lists. I also believe that our healing is basically a trap. The whole system is taxed too heavily to be viable. However, Gristlegore with 3 mounted heros and an Archregent is going t be an incredbly effective list that doesn't resemble anything LoN can do.

Imo none of the Courts address the core issue with knights and serfs, and that's thier points cost. They are still absurdly overcosted. Modern armies have no issues dealing with >100 wounds armies, especially when they only have a 5+ or 6+ save. Knight/serf armies also need more character support bringing their drop count up and eliminating the option of the alpha strike. The whole setup is just incredibly inefficient and don't see a way around this other than spamming archregent which is exactly what i want to avoid.

Well, play testing is meaningless if it isn't effective. It doesnt take a brain surgeon to see that the archregent as written is too efficient. I'll hold off until the faq before saying much more about the book.

I completely agree with this assesment. As a player who likes the aesthetic of knights + serfs the book comes across as such a disappointment. Instead of making balanced lists viable they just pushed even harder into the monster mash list. Then there is the archregent... It's fairly obvious they didnt do much play testing or deep analysis of this book.

I don't know if i agree with this. I feel that big blocks of serfs or knights still wont be a viable option. In fact, abilities like feeding frenzy or the archregent spell push you harder into monster mash lists.

I'd be very surprised if his summon ability doesnt get faq'd so that the ability can only be used once per game instead of once per archregent, to prevent the ability from being spammed.

I have a hard time getting hyped on the Archregent. The problem is the majority of his support comes from spellcasting and currently FEC's magic phase is pretty garbage. I don't like relying on spells in such a magic heavy meta. Looking at him in a vacuum id much rather spend my points towards a mounted hero who can contribute in combat. It really will depend on his cost and whether or not we can get a casting bonus.

Its not super consistent, but its one of the spells that helps to define our faction. The ability to snipe heroes off the board or work down behemoths, in conjunction with the wheel, is a big deal and makes plague squall a must take spell imo.

Feedback can be left on the post on the Warhammer Community Facebook page. Regarding the feedback itself, they are only looking to reevaluate points costs.

The Glottkin wants to support an army with larger size units. His +wound spell is best on larger model count units like maruaders, plaguebearers or plague monks. His command ability is also better on those units or units with lots of melee weapon profiles like plague drones. The GUO on the otherhand has debuff spells like favoured poxes which benifits any unit. His movement buff is also great for supporting any unit. His command ability only supports daemon units though, so generally you will want at least one unit of plaguebearers or drones to take advatage of it. Looking at your current selection of models, which is mostly blightkings + mortal heroes, you have 3 good paths for growing your army; GUO + daemon units, Glottkin + a horde unit, or more blightkings to build one of the Cysts.

I strongly disagree with the majority of these statements. First, the only unit in the start collecting box that likely will never be considered for play is nurglings. The rest of the units range between good(poxbringer/drones) to amazing(plaguebearers). Second, the majority of daemon units can function fine without support, especially plaguebearers, so they are fine to support a army that is predominately mortal. As a bonus, drones are one of the better recipients for Blades of Putrefaction, which is a mortal spell. If you choose to go this route you will probably want to invest in 2 SC boxes and couple extra boxes of plaguebearers to build a 30 man unit plus some for summoning. Nurgle has a wide range of good units to make for a variety of builds. Generally a GUO is all you really need to tie the disparate elements together into a cohesive army. Id only suggest builds like blightcyst or plague cyst if you really love Blightkings, as they encourage you to spam them almost exclusively. Regardless of what you choose, you will want some plaguebearers to summon.

With nurgle you can take Tamurkhans Horde allegiance which gives you a great bonus ability, -1 to run and charge for opponents, and still allows a Beastmen general to get a artifact and trait(even if they are pretty poor).

Its a medicore battalion in the majority of scenarios. Its expensive and the battalion ability is pretty poor. It does offer a lot of flexibility in unit selection though, so if you have a specific build in mind or want to run Beasts with the Maggotkin allegiance its at least playable.

Personally, i use Primordial Call almost exclusively on 3 points summons to summon onto objectives as quickly and as often as i can. You really want to apply scenario pressure as early as possible.

Ive been running 3x30 bestigors quite successfully. Like Swampheart has said, the list isnt built to alpha armies off the table. BoC just cant concentrate enough hitting power into our units unless you build around Enlightened(which i wont do as tzeentch isnt my thing). Instead the army has to grind out scenario wins, which it can be incredibly good at. My current list is 1 drop with 183 models. 3x30 bestigor, 30 gors, 40 ungors 3x10 raiders, 2x shaman, beastlord, desolating battalion. Typically i push up onto objectives with the gors/raiders turn 1 while summoning in 10x ungors roughly every round to contest back-field objectives. This puts a ton of pressure on the opponent to spread out. The bestigors are usually in my second line and focus on maintaining the objectives or removing key threats. The big block of ungors usually hangs out at the herdstone for sacrifices and comes out late game with the herdstone buff to either maintain objectives or finish off injured units. The key to the horde army is to keep the waves coming in and always applying pressure while the opponents are slowly being wittled down. The summoning is key to throw out chariots to tie up units or pressure vulnerable characters or apply scenario pressure all over the board with ungors.

They were important when the meta consisted of armies with 2+ rerollable armor saves, but since the inception of 2.0 flayers have dropped off in utility quite a bit.