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I think the key mindset with GW-which again hasn't really changed-is that so long as you and your opponent are of the same mind and intention then rules, or lack thereof, will serve their purpose. If you both want to play fluffy and to a narrative etc the rules are there for guidance and to create a simulation . Balance dosent matter because it dosent matter to the players in the first place. If you want to play competitively then the rules are a strict foundation on which to pick and play your army. Balance dosent matter because the players going out to win, not how to be fair, players will actively be looking for as imbalanced and unfair a line up as possible to beat all comers. The issue arises when peoples expectations are different, thats where the sourness of a stomp list against a fluffy or just less ruthlessly engineered army is likely to come up. But given that GW's philosophy is that players should want to play the same way before playing each other, I think they would basically say it is not the point of the rules to act as mediator in a situation which GW explicitly dosent cater for or believe in in the first place. So while I dont for a second believe that armies aren't thoroughly and extensively play tested, I dont think they are ever done so with anything besides how fun and characterful they are how they feel and cohere. Because the vast majority of people who buy an army want to play that army eg they want orruks to be like orruks etc. And so long as they do, and the play testers are playing against people of a like mind, they'll have a great time and be left with the conclusion that they have crafted something which feels true to the faction they are playing.

To clarify, I'm not saying they're perfect, that I totally agree with their methods, that they cant be improved upon etc. More the observation that whatever it is folk think they're doing wrong, it's sort of moot because they are getting the rest of it so right, by their own objectives at any rate, that what they're getting wrong absolutely dosent matter at present and hasn't for at least four or five years now. It's not damaging accessibility to or the sucsess or legacy or popularity of their product in any sense that remotoey begins to counter how effectively they are succeeding in those areas. The other thing that sort of blows me away in the balance debate is the assumption that GW somehow dont know the value of balance, or the importance of it, or how much more money it would make them etc; people seriously seem to think that a company that has so successfully reinvented its identity and revitalised its fortunes and which beats its own sales targets and records four years in a row dosent have the capacity or brain trust or resources to invest in these things if it mattered as much as some people on here suggest it does, or to make a simple cheap fix that would being in even more money. *Of course* GW would invest heavily in balance if they seriously believed it would increase their profits relative to investment or make for an even more sucsessful product. Not only are they not stupid, they're manifestly very very savvy. It's not an accident their games turn out to be as inelegant and unwieldy as they do. GW obviously have come to the conclusion that it simply doesn't matter and focus their fire elsewhere. The 6 month FAQ thing is case in point. People were telling me a year ago when it was introduced that it was evidence that GW did care about balance etc and a new direction. Whereas I think most have since realised as I said at the time that it's an easy and basically free sop to those clamouring for balance. Each 6 months go by and people expectant of actual balance and change to make the game competitively viable are left disappointed. Meanwhile GW have upped production on *everything* and the quality of things like battletomes etc have actually gotten sloppier and more imbalanced and weird. They make toys to sell that people really want to buy. You can also play some games with those toys which is basically unsupported by GW besides expensive books, compendouns of articles available elsewhere and rulers and dice to play said game with, if you want. Nothing has changed except they've worked out how to make their toys even more desirable and available. They dont care about balance or AOS or 40k as competitive systems in any sense that begins to compare with how much they care about making and selling as many toys as possible.

Again- the extent to which that may be the case is evidently dwarfed by the accessibility GW provides by its focus on accessibility in other forms- Start Collecting sets, push fit kits, battleboxes, contrast paints etc. Over the past decade GW, a company who makes toy soldiers, were one of the highest performing companies in the FTSE 250 and flourished esoecially on the Highstreet, an area where many far more wealthy and powerful businesses and companies have experienced a complete haemorrhage of profitability and even viability. There are situations in which it is possible to propose to know how to do things better than the established party doing it. In every aspect relating to popularity, profitability, accessibility and customer loyalty, there is not one person on here who has any reason whatever to maintain that they know better than GW. It's easy to say stuff, GW is doing it, investing in its vision which according to some is not efficient or makes no sense, yet it is worth billions and its value increases year on year, on the back of it's own convictions, just by making toy soldiers. Its simply not possible to suggest they're not doing it right when faced with the fact of their mounting success.

Sorry to be the guy but this Is total conjecture which is not borne out by the evidence at all. GW are reporting best ever sales year after year, but balance has for GW has always been garbage. *At best* you can say that bad overall balance kills the casual scene from one perspective but the overwhelming evidence points to an increasing focus on accessibility and availability to the hobby that GW has been prioritising means that approach brings in far more than a lack of focus on balance loses.

Absolutely. But there are none that come remotely close in having the network of resources and players who learn to use/play them. If you buy GW models you buy into a worldwide community and culture of people and oponents and game support, theoretically. But the reason for that is that GW has always prioritised models and lore, and those products are so good that millions of people invest in them for those reasons alone. The biggest strength GW have always had is spectacle and they have always focussed on that. GW puts models on the window and offers free painting workshops, and it makes record profits year after year. It also just so happens you can play games with their models, but that has always come a distant third in investment and marketing. Even now, think about the Community reveals at events and associated hype; they have nothing to do with the game and how armies or models play. They know they just need to show the models and nothing more, because the overwhelming majority of customers buy GW products because of how they look, and how they interact with a whole other universe of toys that look amazing and have rich source material that will only continue to grow because GW invest massively in making that universe full of those things. It is easy to get excited over and buy an exiting model, but comparatively far more time consuming to build it, not to mention the time investment required to undercoat it, paint it to even a basic standard and learn the rules for it , the logistics of carrying an army etc even if you have ready made opponents. That's all common to wargaming as a hobby in general, and actually why other companies have to work so hard on their rules and systems to make them effective and enjoyable, because maintaining new customers and stimulating existing ones in a hobby with this degree of investment is really difficult. But GW has the media and IP presence and resources to push a new army or game or warband on you every quarter or more and build up the hype and the sense that you *need it* and are missing out on the GW universe at large if you're not involved.

The latest tome had a lot in it relating to the next stage of the SC story, namely the flaws in reforging etc, and those responsible for trying to find a "cure". I suspect the next tome will involve a similar revelation and set of models. Doubt they would just redux like they did with eg Sylvaneth.

I understand why they're angry per se, but it's like buying football boots and shorts and signing up to a football club but then complaining that it was a waste of money because you don't want to play a game where you kick a ball. GW games are expensive, imbalanced, inelegant, unstable, they have to be one of the worst value, least accessible games to play for the sake of playing a game. And that wont change while the company who makes them continues to be as outrageously successful as it is doing what it does.

So long as people continue to buy an army before working out it sucks in GW's notoriously imbalanced inelegant game systems its *great* for GW. Because sales and the vast majority of comments and auctions online suggest that it means people buy two or more armies. If all armies were balanced most people would probably just buy one, be content with it, add something here and there over time. Not start a new one til they've really got their fill of its ins and outs. Capitalism and mass consumerism always intentionally wants its consumers to be unsatisfied with their purchase. This hobby thrives off over stretch, people buying more than they can handle, army fatigue, and the shininess of a new, different more appealing or effective alternative to these purchases. Not off contented, satisfied customers who love their army and cant conceive of a better or different one. GW want you to buy every army, not love one or two of them.

GW manifestly dont care about balance, which is why everything is imbalanced. Its nota return of anything, its just GW doing what they do.

Usually when you see things painted to this standard it isnt a base coat, shade and highlight, but multiple glazes and passes. It also looks like True Metallic Metal, meaning although metal acrylics have been used (it's not NMM) care has been taken to paint in and affect subtle reflections from the ground, weapon etc. Although its shiny and naturally responsive to some light, metallic paint just gives a flat shine and does not act as actual metal does. You cant usually tell on small details but it's why most figures with a lot of metal or armour on them often look a bit flat, and also why a lot of pros and competitors do things with lots if armour on them, it's a canvas to really demonstrate skill and understanding of shape, reflections etc.

The main issue is that lots of people approach AOS like a MOBA or MTG or similar, ie a game in which there is a large enough dataset, incentive and resources for the manufacturer to invest heavily in balance and needs etc, not to mentionn the means to make changes universally with ease . And there isnt. AOS is full of literally dozens (at a very conservative estimate) of units which are competitively worthless. There are entire faction which are competitively worthless. 40k is the same. The meta of what is actually worth taking if you want to win going by the datasets of what is available is *tiny*. Now if you're not playing at the highest level-and lets race it, few on here are- all of that is moot. But so long as people focus on lists and stats and values required to compete at a level they will never play at, discussions of the game are always going to be warped as people just stuff their list with the pro choices in the belief that it's the lists that count over the skill of the people who make and play them.

I think the exclusive models are kept at arms length in respect to their individual release precisley to encourage people to buy the box. I think if the unique models in Aether war were better they would have sold more copies. Not seen anything like the excitement generated by them that accompanied the Ogor Tyrant or Arch Rev or Enrapturess for example.

I mean I always assumed the Mistweaver and Tenebrael Shard were proto Aelf/Dark Aelf. There has been an aesthetic consistency with AOS from day one, one of the pleasures of it has been to see teasers come to fruition and full realisation, so I'd be very surprised if the Hysh Aelves weren't close to this, which is already clearly an evolution of existing high elf design with the Lilethean moons. My guess is a merge of Old style pinty high elf with the more GW IP friendly and desugh monopolisable Eldar. Which is basically what the mistweaver is. Heck there are so many bits of elves all over the DNA of AOS, not just in overt aelf factions like Sylvaneth, Idoneth and Khainites but also heavily referenced in Slaanesh as well as basically reduced versions of all the original elf armies from Warhammer in Cities of Sigmar. Their influence is everywhere at this point.

Well this aged well 👍

I know loads of people who love the theme, me included. More than anything else it's the requirement of multiple big vehicles and the painting and transportation thereof which is the main barrier to entry

Used to get stuff like this all the time when I started out with Warhammer, nice way to add more value to your collection and change things up. I had a feeling last year we won't get a new "classic" aelf faction until the next edition and I maintain that with this release. Pretty sure they wont turn up until Nagash and Archaon are out of the spotlight. I'm betting that Slaanesh gets free and then the aelves turn up in that "chapter".

Just to clarify for 3 if it helps you to calculate: You can do a max 9 wounds to a unit with over 10 models (3 x 3) and a max of 3 wounds to a unit with less. Its each unit though, not in total. So if you were within reach of two 10+ units and a hero and dropped three flasks you could do potentially 21 wounds. Basically it's good to drop them round characters and big units. So long as you're playing SC the unit size of most units means you'll rarely have to worry about the 10+ factor hurting you. If the unit is smaller than 10 then three wounds to your own dudes is likely to be just as harmful as hurting the enemy if not more so. Teaming an Incantor up with a flying ability is an excellent kamikaze option against horde armies or those that like to have a little cluster of heroes who hang out together. Fly her in, mic drop, peace out.

Yes , I can it's the one I've explained at length. Make lots of products that you know will sell. Bring back older stuff that customers have told you will sell in enough numbers to justify it and hype them up over years of development to ensure they do. Try some more fringe stuff. If it sells well, add it to the make more pile. If it dosent, make sure the new stuff is more like the stuff that already sells when you try it next time. That's manifestly GW's business model and the rationale on which things are released. And yes lots of things in the world make lots of money but in this hobby, most things actually dont, certainly not to the degree required to simply maintain GWs infastructure and massive running costs let alone turn a profit, so to have an IP and system that makes good money is more than reason enough to stick with it actually. I never once said the system is great, or makes the most sense or cannot be improved upon, did I? So you can chill out on that front. That's your own frustration speaking. Dont put words in my mouth. Rather, dont confuse your own hopes and aspirations for what GW should release with anything they themselves claim. It dosent matter if you want parity or not as GW have *never* claimed they will offer it or prioritise it so your insistence on that isnt coming from them. You want it sure, but those are not expectations based upon anything other than what you want and certainly not on what GW itself says. The flip side of saying some laps it up for choosing to spend their own money on a product they are in no way what so ever compelled to buy is that people are acting like children for not getting what they want, based on nothing other than a sense of entitlement. It "should" be fair, everyone "should" get the same. Why? Because it's what you want, ultimately, and that's all there is to it. I want more toys, GW should make the toys, it's not fair I dont have the toys I want, it's not an excuse that they have a business to run because I want my stuff and they should meet my needs.

Just because you dont see a pattern or logic doesn't mean there isnt one. GW dont release things on the basis of fairness , "whose turn it is to get stuff" or anything of the sort, nor have they ever. For the 20 odd years I've been in the hobby I would say they've actually probably reproduced more existing content than they have invented new stuff-usually all the same game systems , army books , factions just getting updated or added to. The past year has been positively absurd in respect to the amount of new stuff they've brought out and balancing they have done in respect to their own history. They said they would bring out tomes for pretty much everyone and they've done it. They didnt once say all factions would get the same treatment, bells and whistles, that they would be balanced or anything of the sort though. Regardless , GW dont exist to make every collector and hobbyist happy and content with their favourites. They serve the interests and tastes of the majority, which by and large dont change, which in turn makes them rich. Just like Disney with the Marvel and Star Wars licenses. There is an alchemy in owning a Universe like GW does and they know what to do to turn their ownership of it into gold. That will always be the only pattern in play for army updates, new games and systems etc. Its not separate to new releases or updates etc- it's the precise reason for any of them. GW exist to make money. That's it. Dont expect anything more and your realisations or expectations will never be dashed. I'm not saying it like it's bad either. They make toys, really cool toys, toys that we all love, and that GW loves too, and that's great for all involved. But lots of other companies have made great toys too and that wasnt enough because they didnt have the savvy to pay the Bills to keep it going. GW knows what keeps it alive and it taps into it and rarely messes around with it, that's all there is to it.

There's an Interview from somewhere about a year back where a designer says explicitly that Shadespire gangs (up to that point at least) are as you say, a chance to flex creative muscles and play with ideas. He said that Designers enjoy the opportunity to nail a race or theme across a limited scope, really double down on the essence of what they represent. If I remember correctly the guy was saying that the easy fit Castigators were originally designed with Shadespire in mind (hence the Griffhound) but were turned into an AOS unit due to how striking their war band was. If you look at the pattern of AOS releases following Shadespire I think it's only Grots (and a Troggoth) who came before their main faction.

I say all this with the caveat that I dont believe GW are remotely interested in competitive balance: The problem with Stormcast is an echo of the issue with Space Marines in 40k. In the fiction they are a force of demigods not only capable of going to to toe with most any foe, but whose emergence basically saved the universe, such is their power and efficacy. GW have done a better job with SC than SM in representing them faithfully to this origin on the tabletop, but the power creep of other factions is a real problem to SC and by extension the entirety of AOS. With an army whose lore basically presents them as innately extra and better than everyone else, on whom existence of the Mortal Realms depend and who are involved in everything, everytime a faction is improved upon by GW the essence of SC is impaired to some degree because the existence of a superior faction to SC throws the entire universe off-kilter. If the SC dont hold the tension of the Mortal Realms in place then the lore dosent work, there is no reason that orruks or Slaanesh or whoever Next gets a tome dont take over the universe without the SC strong enough to police thr threat. The logical thing to do in both 40k and AOS would be to use SM and SC as the spirit level around which to build every other faction, basically ensure that each army playing to their respective strengths can compete against them but not beat them at their own game. Because that's the entirety of the fiction, that's how it evolves; SC either hold the next bad thing in check or the bad thing doubles down and schemes on the basis of its unique aspects and swings momentum etc until SC can find a way to push back. They *have* to be what they're supposed to be, an army who can take all comers but who are also prone to being out thought, out manoeuvred and blinded by over confidence and dogma, because the mrchanics of the entire ficfion is dictated by Sigmars power and hubris more than anything else. As Sigmars avatar the SC have to be *something*, not vanilla second rate Jack's of all trade. They dont really have anything of note going on. With both 40k and AOS though you have the main protagonists of the fiction represented on the tabletop as elite costed troops who aren't elite, whose versatility is simply translated as being diffuse on the tabletop, whose legendary courage and morale is only above average, whose supposedly near immortal constitution and god forged armour is slightly better than a man wearing a leather cuirass, whose aeons forged combat prowess is one pip better than a goblin. At this point in the cycle a Stormcast eternal is pound for pound one of the least effective combatants going, a total contradiction.

Matches my experience of folk I've known who work there too. But Duncan is top talent, if you could put a figure on the sales GW has made from his efforts to demystify and introduce the hobby it would massively exceed his annual salary I should have thought. Look forward to Tzeentch and Kharadron being massively overpowered for a bit anyway

I mean if you can’t tell the considerable difference between skeletons that have fists as large as their heads and curtain rods for spears and the newer versions were not going to find common ground for debate here

No, most people use these ones https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Deathrattle-Skeleton-Warriors-2017 Not the ones that come in a box of five which says "Warhammer" on it and have square bases Unrelated but one of the things I'm interested in with these is that it's maybe the first full army that 'Eavy Metal have painted using NMM techniques. Just an observation. I think they will look quite a bit different with a less comicsy paint job, which dosen't accentuate their stupid faces. They're like Michael Bay's Skeletons.

I didn’t say they were skeletons. I was talking about their design in respect to some of their concept but primarily in respect to their visual identity, which is what interests me. Within that context, I said aesthetically, they are primarily, fat skeletons. Necrons aren’t skeletons either, they’re blah blah blah fluff blah. But they’re robot skeletons in aesthetics . I mentioned Skeletor from Heman not because I think he’s from Hyssh but to illustrate my wider point. After which I then specifically went on to compare them to Stormcast because I know that was at least in part the intention of them. I really don’t follow how after very clearly explaining my interest in their design you can miss all that just to paste a press release at me. Suffice to say that I do not think they are literally fat skeletons, but that nonetheless they look like fat skeletons, which for me rather undermines the fact that they are meant to be something special, but nonetheless just look like fat skeletons. They’re not remotely dynamic, which I think is meant to highlight their sort of visual statue/automata quality. But they’re not that either! So you have a design choice which contradicts what they arent on two counts, without giving any real confident suggestion as to what they are, reducing them to fat skeletons The one guy who they got right, the Mortarch, is astounding. But he is a completely separate design from the rest of the faction. He’s a C’taan essentially.