Icarion

Yeah I haven't received a physical copy yet or a shipping notice, I didn't think they had been sent out yet.

Seriously. If I don't see everyone using this as a KO anvil of Apotheosis Character, I'm going to be wildly disappointed in the community.

This model alone makes me want to start a small Kharadron Force, themed around Bugman's classic Rangers.

Honestly, seeing the breadth and types of changes they are willing to implement for the factions in this book, the only thing I truly feel missing is an updated Marauder Warscroll.

Honestly this thread doesn't seem to serve a purpose beyond one side whining about things they dont like and why others are wrong to, I don't see how threads like these are productive.

So Deepkin are getting spoiled with Broken Realms! Looks like new battalions, updated warscrolls for Allopex's, Leviadons and both Eidolons, and then introducing mount traits for Deepmares and Leviadons.

It not a rule, and of the 10 warscrolls in the book, only 6 are wizards. Nearly half the army is not. Why wouldn't the army created by the literal God of magic have a lot of wizards.

That is interesting as we previously got a rumor engine for a vulture that looks just like the one on the Huskard kit.

That's my hope. Start collecting boxes were never advertised as being equivalent in game, just equal in value of kits/discount. But the Combat patrol boxes are expressly designed as 25 power level, or 500 point forces, so equivalent in points and monetary value. In terms of actual balance they are still likely to be all over the place (not all 500 point armies are created equal) but at least in terms of current points balance they should be on track.

No idea what you mean, compared to current "similar" start collecting sets both of these contain more and larger models than what they will be replacing For example, current space wolves start collecting is 3 kits 10 old marines, 1 hero, 3 thunderwolves, New box is 4 larger kits 15 Primaris (two units) a primaris hero, and a Invictor warsuit. On top of that, it includes two space wolves upgrade sets. This is WAY more than the old SW start collecting.

Sure, The perceived value has dropped slightly, but Looking at things on the shelf in a store, I doubt anyone new to the hobby is going to clutch their pearls over 1 larger box having 6% less total savings than another smaller box. Start collecting sets were never really enough to get a true feel for most games anyways, and you almost always needed an additional purchase to bump up to 500 points, which is the general starting points level in AOS and 40k. So odds were good you would have ended up buying the start collecting set with its 40% discount and then 1 full priced kit, whereas now you get all of that at a flat 35% discount. It's actually saving you more money to get to that 500 point level than before. Seems like this direction is better value for new players and slightly worse for old players bulking up collections which is exactly what an entry level box should be.

I guess I don't see the problem with these boxes being more expensive, they include more. You're still getting a 35 % savings.

This is why I have no sympathy nor patience whatsoever for the tournament crowd who buy up spamlists with each new codex/battltomes and then whine about selling it all on ebay after the first update.

Good point. Everybody needs a hobby, that’s his. And I’d hate to say anything meant to hamper his enjoyment of his chosen hobby.

So imperial knight in 40k were unsustainable too? what a laugh. They can do the exact same thing, character kits, alternate types/sizes even chaos gargant kits or upgrade sets. Imperial knights have had at least three codexs I can remember, each coming with brand new knight kits. You really have to stretch to find negative things now Icegoat, pity.

The vanari side of the army seems to be the more Tyrion centric side and will likely be expanded in some small ways, while the Aelemental temples are more teclis' area of expertise. That said, due to Tyrions pact with the Perimeter inimical, I would expect that if any of the Aelemental temples to be closely associated with Tyrion, it would be Zenith, and that's where we might see more "out-there" Aelves, as Zenith path Aleves. My reasoning is that the Perimeter Inimical of Hysh seems to be one and the same with the "sun" aspect of hysh. It is the spirit of Light. And I've been struggling to think of what the zenith version of the Spirit of the Mountain would be if not the Permeter inimical/celennar themselves. Nothing says each Temple needs to follow the same footprint of Alarith, with foot troops, support hero, and Aelemental spirit, but that seems as reasonable an expectation as any, and if Zenith has a Spirit, I struggle to picture what it would be if not The perimeter or/and and Celennar. My inability to think up alternatives, doesn't preclude GW coming up with something crazy and wonderful, but for right now, my guess is that Zenith is going to be centered around Tyrion and Teclis and their bound spirits.

Yeah, I have to call bull (pun definitely intended) on this topic. Everything but one feature* of the Lumineth is rooted in the traditional High Elf Army from warhammer fantasy, the army which GW and Phil Kelly have said ad nauseum was their intent to reimagine for the Age of Sigmar setting. In order: Elves in warhammer have always had a martial focus. This army isnt coopting some other factions identity, it is reclaiming its own heritage from basically 6th-8th edition High Elves. High Elves in warhammer were always magic focused, Teclis in particular. From both Gav Thorpe (who wrote a great deal of Old world Elf lore) and Phil Kelly who wrote the Lumineth Lore and is responsible for a great deal of Age of Sigmars lore, Elves have always been magically competent, even basic non wizard characters in lore have been able to do basic magic like starting a fire with a word. The Lumineth Magic focus has its roots there, but even more from the fact that Teclis is the AOS god of Magic, and this is HIS faction. Tzeentch is the God or sorcery and deception, but from the Old world to AOS, Teclis has been the one teaching humans magic. From the onset of AOS lore (before the lumineth were created one would assume) GW set up teclis as the Pantheons god of magic, and so honestly, if any order faction was going to have a magic focus, it would be ludicrous if it were not Teclis' own. Elemental themed magic was always a core part of the Lore of High Magic from old world High elves, which again Lumineth are the reincarnation of. In this case though, GW took a minor aspect of their magic/culture and expanded it into something all encompassing and new, a great reimagining while keeping true to the old. Animal themed units were always a High elf feature, from phoenix centric units, to Dragon centric units, to Lion centric unit. *The one area where I will give you that Lumineth have reached outside their traditional wheelhouse is with a resource mechanic. Aetherquartz has no precedent in the old High Elves faction, and I feel it didn't really need to be in this army. It adds a level of resource management and special rules bloat to an already complicated/special rule heavy army.

I find it laughable that people view gamesworkshop as any greedier than any other business needs to be in a capitalist society. And as to argument that Warhammer community isn't a great community resource, I dare you to read articles like this and not be inspired to be creative.

SO now that we have a full picture, this is definitely an echo of the sword masters, the rune on her back banner is the rune of Tavlu, the Tower of Hoeth, mark of Wisdom. I know some thought it was Avalu, rune of Vaul, but this is the rune of the Tower of Hoeth. Very cool. No one could know if this foreshadows a new unit of swordmasters down the line, but something to keep in mind, The tower of Hoeth was described as being not just a place of learning, but a vault of knowledge designed to survive even the destruction of the word and be the legacy of the aelves. In multiple places throughout the old world lore the Tower was described as being so well magically protected that it could survive the destruction of the world, that its purpose was specifially to outlast the Aelves. Could be cool if the tower did survive and is somewhere in the mortal Realms.

one of the cool conceptual descriptions of Ghur was that everything in the realm (including continents) are predators. I love how it looks like they all have jaws, and as per the lore blurb, you can see what eating a continent looks like. On the right side of the map above Andtor, is a place called Carcass Donse, it is described that Donse used to be another continent but is being consumed by Thondia, which is described as an Apex predator among the other continents. Love this.

Like all warhammer material, if it is published, it is canon until it isn't. The old warhammer RPG fleshed out the warhammer fantasy world with lots of things never mentioned in army books, which went on to become conventional "canon" in later editions of the game. This seems to fit that mould, especially considering that a slew of Black Library authors are credited in the book for writing.

The only way I'd buy an argument that GW prices are getting out of hand is to compare the cost of similar kits over time compared against inflation. For example, According to the bureau of Labor statistics, the purchasing power of 1 USD in 2001 is equivalent to 1.51USD in 2020. To compare, a box of High elf archers back then was about 35USD, which would be about 52.5USD today. The price of the new Lumineth Sentinels is 60USD. You get less models and the box costs 10% more after inflation, but the models are larger, and significantly prettier/more detailed. Not a bad deal at all. Some people will look at the price of warhammer and say no thanks, but the same could be said 20 years ago. Judging by GW market share and earnings, I'd say the player base is larger now than back then despite price rises slightly outpacing inflation. Furthermore, considering the prices have risen following inflation + over the years, and that there are more people playing now than back then, I'd say concerns about the current pricing trend scaring people off is akin to baseless sky is falling gripes.

Calling a 2000 point army and its high cost a point of entry is crazy mate. When I got into warhammer point of entry was a box of infantry, a hero and a rulebook, and the same for my pals. Even now, I doubt a majority of people new to the hobby gets in and immediately plans a 2000 point list to build towards. Most likely they buy a starter set. In fact, a large segment of the community (myself included) enjoy building to 1000 points or less to try things out and only then expanding if we enjoy it. People who are willing to drop $800 on a new thing in one go are not the kind people who will be pinching pennies or be priced out of warhammer altogether so the point seems moot. But even assuming your case of 800 as a point of entry is accurate (it isn't, look at my comparisons and you'll see a full 2000 point army costs around $700) That's not so dissimilar from other leisure hobbies like warhammer. I tend to build 1 x 2k list a year, and yeah it costs be around 1000USD factoring in paint and glue and the like, while my brother in law golfs, a club membership and clothes/fees/equipment costs him 2500 a year. My father fixes old cars as his hobby which costs his a few 1000 as well each year or more. Buying a new video game system and TV, plus 3 or 4 games to last the year costs 1kUSD easy. MY best friend spends 1000USD easily to build his new MtG deck each year. Every hobby you listed costs similar to or more than most warhammer armies, so I'm confused what point your trying to make. Internally, warhammer armies cost about the same. Externally, the warhammer hobby isn't so dissimilar in cost to other leisure hobbies. And the point of entry cost for warhammer is way cheaper than the point of entry cost of any of these pass times. Of course there are cheaper hobbies, bird watching and stamp collecting a cool. But compared to many hobbies warhammer is priced just fine for what I get out of it.

Cool, so factoring in start collecting sets to the lists I made, knocks about 150USD off of sylvaneth and KO knocks off about 100USd, that brings both 2000 point lists down to 640 and 620 respectively. How does that alter my assumptions? Still seems pretty middle of the pack for army cost. Down the road I wouldn't be surprised to see LRL or SOB discount bundles or start collecting sets that knock off 100USd from the full list price which would bring them close to par with both those start collection focused armies you mention. But for right now, without those Start collecting sets or discounts available, both LRL and SoB army costs look to be pretty close to the costs of other armies and that's the only fair comparison anyone can make. Arguing "this brand new army costs more than old armies which have cost saving discounts to sell old stock!" is frankly silly, discounts come with time. You can obviously build cheap armies if you build around start collecting, or only buy the most points/cost efficient units. But even a cursory glance at most many 2000 point lists show they cost somewhere around 700USD plus of minus 100USd for vagaries of list building. having so many armies cost within 10-15% of each other shows that broadly speaking any full army will cost the about the same.

Nope, no start collecting for SoB or LRL yet so their prices would be naturally inflated in comparison if included in this price comparison. I went off the assumption that people would rather build lists around what they want to use, not based off of what is least expensive. Obviously if you only build your army around start collecting sets, it will be cheaper than a new army without any discounts, so that premise seems boring to consider.