Riff_Raff_Rascal
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Everything posted by Riff_Raff_Rascal
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I got to some scheming. I always go to Eshin first to make them work. Here's a sneaky list... So first off, Eshin heroes are the only one's with untapped potential for 3.0, and they need-need artifacts to be interesting. Had to start there. Justified 6 heroes for going double Warlord battalion. Gutter runners I wish I could run in larger packs but no longer work like we want them to in mixed lists. Second, like many lists I make with Eshin, I intend to pilot it in a very cagey fashion. I expect very little of my army to survive, but movement and positioning are king, lots of heroes scurrying out of combat. For this list experiment, I intend to track the following: Warpweeper Stars artifact combined with Curse prayer, for both nat6's to hit and wound doing MW's. Followed up with a total of 10 melee attacks for more potential MW's. Ideally I'm getting the assassin target re-rolls to hit. Note: 3.0 rules make eshin's exploding 6's on hit awkward as you now must choose only 1 trigger effect for a dice roll. Also Warpweeper Stars sneaks in to impact Unleash hell potential. Cool. Outshined of course by Unleash Hell with a WARP LIGHTNING CANNON! boowahhah! For deployment, I'll have half of my army in reserve using my Clanrats gift wrapping trick. Ideally, I'll have that half completely entrenched at another Gnawhole ready for an opponent's charge. Deceiver will run up the middle, while not super defensive, being hard to catch and juicy bait. Going to see if giving the bombardier the flight spell will help my general get outta of pickles by giving him fly and then scurrying away. Most importantly, I want to see the Deceiver assassinate stuff. I will be looking to see Flaming Spell do work and check if finally giving eshin a way to increase damage will help compete with our other "assassin"(Warbringer). Tricks and tools +damage.
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I just want to point out that clanrats are now the wrapping paper to our gift of destruction. Everyone needs to start pushing the limit of how many units you can stuff into a block-o-rats and sending them over the board. •Rat-ssassins can still hide in units (at no limit) •1 weapon team into 10 clanrats •1 unit-o-clanrats into 1 warpgrinder. Surprise! You can really weather any charge after deepstriking because warpflame weapon teams take care of hordes and eshin heroes still have potential to slay single entities, or more likely pull some sneaky debuffs with eshin artifacts.
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I call this list the Great Wall of Thanquol I was on the same wavelength as @will pollock for Ratlng Gunners, and yes, both Overseer of Destruction and Hidden Weapon teams trigger at the same time and thus you as the active player can decide the order of operations. Now keep in mind, this is not really a trick for your opponent, you can only use this aggressively in your turn. For Unleash Hell, Thanquol's got that covered. The other trick I want to point out for us now is the true power of the Curse Universal Prayer. It causes MWs on Nat6's, for EVERYTHING, including shots from the ratlings. The real surprise is a block of 60 clanrats that can now maintain their full horde bonuses and use spears to fish for 6's like no one's business. I toyed with having a clawlord for some gusto and bump the Grey Seer for more attacks on the clanrats. My other spice is a Hellpit Abomination with the potential to heal 4D3 a round between its mutation and the free-roaming Lifeswarm. Who else is excited for Moulder!
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@Cosmicsheep well no wonder everyone wants to use the enhancement battalion. You cant get any lore spells at all if you dont. Also missed that other FAQ, I thought it was the 'including unique' change that was special.
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@Cosmicsheep @mmimzie Ah, but I just now had the thought on how Lord Skreech can take a universal spell lore. So he can not directly take an enchancment, but as an army, you are allowed to gain 1 spell lore enchancement. If I'm reading it correctly, it says once taken each wizard can grab a spell available to them, hence the universal ones. Consequently, our book already allows us to take 1 spell per wizard, pending restrictions, and so wouldn't the global spell lore enhancement allow our grey seers to take an additional spell also? A grey seer gets 1 freebie for being skaven and another one in addition? Just as a refresher: 27.3.4 SPELL LORES Each time you take a spell lore enhancement, you can pick 1 spell for each Wizard in your army from any of the spell lores available to that Wizard (you can pick different spells from different spell lores for different Wizards). Each Wizard knows the spell that you picked for them in addition to the other spells they know.
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Jump right in. This is the edition for Monster Heroes so I would say yes, it'll be competitive. And by competitive, I mean that you'll be a great gatekeeper army in your local meta or friend group, they will all have to beat you to get good. The overcooked armies will beat you, honestly an experienced player with any army might as well, but you will have so much fun, you'll actually stick with the army, learn a lot and ultimately become one of the best players you know. There's plenty of talk for the future about SOB's strengths with objective play, but I prefer the motivational take. Go for it.
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When I put Lord Skreech in a list, is he still not able to take any of our lore spells? Just the generic ones? He's not a Grey Seer or Warlock so I'm assuming no, despite the update to unique characters getting access to lores.
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For those who need a re-cap of the big changes -Strength In Numbers now subtracts 1 to the battleshock roll for every 10 models and wont make the roll negative so there's still a chance of losing lots of models -Warpseer Verminlord got the nerf bat for his defenses, no longer re-rolls save and gets a static +1 save. Also a slightly less exciting, but still reliable Great Manipulators trait for CP's. -For Pestilens players, Liber Bubonicus loses the additional prayer and instead gives you another instance of re-rolling prayers. A boon in my book, as you'll be fishing for 6's anyways, you are incentivized to spread out your buffs and ultimately each prayer is more reliable since you're capped at one prayer per hero in the core rules. -Vermintide Endless spell: Longer casting range, and rightfully so, as it now affects ALL units making moves around it at 3". Remember the core rules allow everyone to walk across it now, so I imagine we are incentivized to be more aggressive with it, and let it run loose. Ironically, quality of life issues may occur as you'll be rolling lots of dice for little payout because of your better control of endless spells in general. Not the end of the world. -Bell of Doom: Now has random movement 2D6" and has a -1 Bravery aura for enemy units WW in addition to all of its normal stuff. -Warp Lightning Vortex: First of all, this spell still needs to be unmade. I don't care how good it is, its just a bad play experience for all players. This change was subtle AND ridiculous. Anyways, the already logistical nightmare of setting this up gets way harder as now each vortex model must also be 1" from ALL models, invocations and endless spells. Just to give you an idea, the base size is 40mm (~1.5") and then add 2" of dead space and you have to find a circular area for each model that's essentially a 90 mm base (3.5" diamater). Uggghh. Ok, rant over. -Gnawhole: Further set-up restrictions in addition to its normal stuff. No more clustering them on an edge as now they must be more than 18" of each other. Movement now happens at END OF MOVEMENT phase, which standardizes this with most everything in the game. The damage effect to enemies changed to needing 6's now (still forgettable ability). Most importantly and very impactful, it gains Impassable. Huddling around gnawholes at the start of the match will far more clunky. I recommend drawing out some new formations for deployment as you wont be able to move over them now. There's plenty of other tiny changes, and I'm sure I missed some little nuance, but these were what I thought impacted us the most on a 13,000 ft view. I wasn't considering points, they are what they are. Everything else, seemed either intuitive, in line with where the core rules were going, or cleared up core rules altogether.
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Unlikely. Unless we had the language similar to Khadron Overlords garrisoning in ships so that they count as the same model AND there was no limitation written into the rule, you could count it. And frankly, they're competing with the other two reliable teams, one that is already anti horde and the other is more flexible. Ill probably still play mine in super casual games but hopefully they add some spice to the flayers in the next book.
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Ugh, this community article hurts. Giving away all of our tricks! Also, they never should have given us 9 stormfiends, its TOO good and is going to get the points bat. Yeah, yeah, I know its like half an army list and its "self-balancing", but fiends got a target on their back mark my words. Also, I want to play the 12 I have, so yeah.
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I'm curious, other than the new monster//hero abilities, was Verminking fun to play? I've always thought his spell was the reason to take him but nigh impossible to get it to cast. My experience with him is he's the master of none. I never took him for his attack profile and he's still relatively squishy. The most work I've gotten outta him is his command ability as an alternate clanrat/stormvermin booster with his CA, or, because of the way its worded, as a rattling gun buff in a skryre list. Personally, my triple Screaming Bell list is now super fun to play. I'll summon him every time because now he can do more stuff, but I still need some convincing to put him in a list.
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@Ching Wing just to refresh, heres the TLAs CA Heed the Spirit-song: You can use this command ability in your hero phase. If you do so, pick 1 friendly model with this command ability. Until your next hero phase, you can re-roll save rolls of 1 for attacks that target friendly SYLVANETH units wholly within 12" of that model. As read, this would be considered an "aura" and thus units in general can gain or lose this effect as they pass or fail the condition of being "wholly within". Just as units move away from the aura and lose the effect later in the turn. So too can units gain the effect if they move into or 'appear' (summoned) later in the turn or phase in this case. The key thing to remember is that the effect does not have a target, nor does it refer to any time the effect happens. Where your friend would be correct is if the language stated that you check all available units to receive the ability upon using it and then get a delayed 'trigger' that would happen when they make saves later. This is all said with the knowledge that GW, while its gotten better with consistent rules writing, can give us real dum dum open ended rules. Hope that helps.
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With the advent of Inspired presence being limited to once per round and incentives to run MSU, I believe its time to brainstorm some thematic scary tree lists. Drycha is a must have for multiple reasons but ironically Dreadwood is not. what im thinking of is forcing multiple battleshocks between drycha and bow hunters in shooting and using magic for bravery bombing. Horrorghast might make an appearance and Skullroot spell later on if I feel i can actually debuff bravery enough. It might be mostly magic, forcing Allarielle to make an appearance but I also really want to mass Spit-revs to tag units. Ill post a list later, just interested in any ideas folks have.
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@eliminatorjrI'm glad you asked. The mutation for +2 wound and 4+ save single-handedly makes them bonkers. This particular mutation takes the most advantage of the new core rules since they now count as multiple models each going past the 5 wound threshold, they have a min size 2, making them super easy to reinforce without worrying about unit coherency (easy for newer players) and finally they dodged (relative) point increases and thus a great buy. They take buffs like a champ: +1 attacks with Skavenbrew artifact, packmasters or vigordust injector artifact give the +1 hit or Moulder's rabid Crown re-rolls wounds. Mix and match at your leisure. And cherry-on-top, they have exploding hits built-in. Not to mention, the other mutations are just super-neat, allowing you to have multiple packs with different roles on the table. Stonks.
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In the point leaks I didn't see any such clue that Mercenaries made it into the new addition. Am I wrong?
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With so many battalions we can run now, anyone going to join me in using the quirky artifacts. Brass Orb is looking really fun right about now. Speaking of fun, Masterclan Trait Cunning is looking spicy with every army getting reliable CPs every round.
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@Skreech VerminkingSure sure. I re-read the scroll and it is in fact only "within". Right nasty that is. And yes, garrisoning as I understood it is a double-edged sword like that when it comes to targeting. The damage density of attacker and defender both go way up. I've put maxed out block of stormvermin in a building once and it was brutal.
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Also hello again, community. I've been slinking in the shadows but I'm still doing the Great Horned One's work on the tabletop. I wanted to catch up the convo and get all excited about 3.0. All in all, I can't help but share my 1313 ft view of where we stand: we are in great shape. List building and points have done a good shake-up to all armies all around and detractors be darned. We can still swarm, Verminlord stonks are WAY WAY up and Nurgle can't steal our stuff properly. For those worried about our shooting fire-power, don't be, it'll be fineAlso, if ya'll ain't playing 1-drop Skaven in your first 3.0 game, you're missing out on all the fun. Its gonna feel good. Afterwards you can play however you want.
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@Skreech Verminking@Darkhan If I'm not mistaken, warpfire throwers are still "wholly within" to count up the number of dice your roll. So wouldn't the ironclad have to be wholly within 8'' of a flamer for you to count all models inside? Dont get me wrong, it still sounds amazing but I'm pretty sure I've run into this problem with a generic garrison of enemies that were in terrain that was too big to be wholly within. My opponent at the time agreed that the "counts as the model" quirk becomes a big derp for shooting what's inside.
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Direction one: Keep the Bell and Warpseer and you'll never worry about getting yelled at, you'll be battleshock immune effectively, and you can just pile all the battleline in with the Battle Regiment. Lets drop those drops. You've got plenty of power projection with dual cannons and the warpseer's 26'' range spell. As is, you may have plenty of damage, especially with the still outrageous Vortex, but this is not an aggressive list in my opinion, it just wants to sit back and let the enemy get closer. The cogs is certainly fun in this list, maybe not necessary for my next idea. Direction two: If you intended to be aggressive moving up the board, you might consider trimming the bell and let the Verminlord be the lynch-pin up the center, add an aggressive threat, like a Hellpit, more stormvermin or heck another Verminlord. This will sound counter-intuitive but with less battleshock control, I would add mobility by swapping out a single warp-fire team with a driller team and add another battleline for more objective control. There is a way to still be proactive with the cannons too. You can put the cannon through a gnawhole, pop up a screening unit with the grinder, hide the remaining flamer in it and suddenly you have a foothold clear across the map.
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I'm considering a fun package to run in a few lists: Making a murderous Clawlord kamikazee. I'm giving the Incandescent Rageblade from Aqshy, the brutal fury command trait and teleporting him within 6'' of enemy lines. The extra spice is with Dreaded Death Frenzy (of course) but I was given paws when thinking about the Clawlord's "Cornered Fury" ability. I expect him to die, then pile in and attack, but upon death, lets say from full health to zero from a gargant swing, what is the timing of the allocated wounds to determine extra attacks? I'm also trying to toy with endless spells (The Burning Head) to throw over the Clawlord and off then off the board to dispel it. It'll deal some MWs, give some extra attacks the the little guy in the process.
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What would you like for AoS 3
Riff_Raff_Rascal replied to Enoby's topic in Age of Sigmar Discussions
1) Faction specific secondary objectives and/or generic ones for matched play. I believe it will help push for a more balanced match-up in some of the current unfair ones out there. 2) The new realm rules are inconsequential. We should take another crack at it. Getting rid of artifact options alone hurt all the armies that needed some support, even if a handful were legitimately worthwhile. More options, more choice is healthy for a game. There's also narrative play and the hero forge concept they introduced that would benefit the most from this. 3) Remove points from faction books. Please make them easily accessed on GW's website. Keep it simple to update. 4) Recall the FAQ that causes a hard-lock on a model so they are unable to pile in if multiple enemies are equidistant. Just let the player choose which one they can move. 5) For the love of the Great Horned One please update non-hero monster charts to be more in line with the SoB ones. Monsters don't have to be good, but what one monster is good at and is taken for, shouldn't diminish after something sneezes at it. Let non-objective holding, under-powered, lack-of-command ability monsters have fun. -
I'll call this one out: where the heck are all of the other rat-demons? The 13-headed one surely has more than just verminlords occupying his domain. Can't say that I've ready anything from even the old world where other "demon units" exist but that would be my pick for a truly new unit. This is of course, as you know, because the Great Horned Rat is a legitimate chaos god, quite possibly the best-strongest, yes? A proper god deserves a more diversified crew of minions don't you agree?
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I had to really dig deep for my rat-boyz. Its alluded to in our book that Ko ships/sky-city was taken over by thanquol himself. Then there must-must be the possibility of sky-pirate rats. Not sure we deserve flying units to be frank. Theres plenty of named heroes in our lore. The hysterical part is they never survive past the blurb written about their exploits. We also have brood-mothers but they make no sense on the tabletop since they should never be close to combat. This question sounds like a non-starter for Skaven, unless others devoted to the Great Horned One have any ideas.
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Yes if: 1)Give it a generic artifact, so it doesn't completely derp and 2) the model is completley kitbashed to form some skaven city-smashin' robot. Any other way betrays the betrayal one often betrays in skaven.
