Uprising Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 I always been a big fan of the juggernauts models, and considering doing a 2000 point list based around the brass stampede or bloodthunder stampede battalion. I am not not looking for super competitive, but just wonder who is better point for point: Might skull crusher and lord on jug vs skullcrushers and herald on jug. The only restriction, everyone has to be on a juggernauts. Ideas and thoughts welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspirant Snaeper Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 They both have their merits but I think Skullcrushers are better on their own. I do like Bloodcrushers as part of Murderhost and if you're looking for more mortal wounds output, thats the way to go. Skullcrushers win on tankiness and are not much further behind on damage output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jharen Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Mighty Skullcrushers just win out over Bloodcrushers in my opinion. Bloodcrushers offer the mortal wounds on hits of 6+, but they're sitting at 1 attack each with those weapons, so you're not going to be seeing many of those come through unless you're getting them +1 to hit from somewhere, which is further point sink into making them effective. They can rebolster their unit on a battleshock roll of 1, sure, but that's playing for the dice roll there so I'd not hold my breath on that for reliability. They're also sitting at 4 wound each. The Herald on Juggernaut has no command ability and simply offers the Bloodcrushers the ability to reroll all failed hits if its within 8" of them when they charge. The Herald on Juggernaut even with artifacts just doesn't do much in the way of damage, and isn't nearly as tough as the Lord on Juggernaut. Meanwhile, Skullcrushers are sitting at 5 wounds each, a shield that offer them a 4+ save to ignore all the damage of a spell, and 2 attacks each at your choice of either a 3+ to hit or -1 rend. The Lord on Juggernaut is then offering a command ability that has a huge 24" range, effects 3 units and himself and gives them +1 to wound if they charge. The Lord on Juggernaut equipped with a gorecleaver artifact is just nasty in combat too, threatening to destroy nearly anything he comes into contact with. If you're looking to max out one of the Stampede battalions, you're going to be better off with Mighty Skullcrushers because they will stick around longer, and when you're pulsating mortal wounds every hero phase you want them to be sticking around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Mighty Skullcrushers are the key to make Juggernaut riders work at all so I think they ride them the best - Going Brass Stampede and maxing out on Mighty Skullcrushers is just amazing on paper. The real question is if you can be bothered to paint so many of the same models. Though with the Skullreaper and Wrathmonger boxes or other Gorechosen models you can make something really different. I also really like the Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut and Skullmaster on Juggernaut but each for their different purposes! Being a resilient supporter! - LoKoJ is just a guy with good resilience and a fantastic Command Ability (provided your forces gain speed elsewhere). He can also whack quite good but is less required to do this as say the Mighty Lord of Khorne. - Skullmaster is really there in my eyes for the Battalion requirements but with The Crimson Crown or Mark of the Slayer is certainly worth the effort. I think he's one of the best Murderhost choices because The Crimson Crown is just amazing with Bloodletter bombs. The speed he has with the decent resilience should allow you to get something out from him. I don't think the Mighty Skullcrushers have any real competition. They are just a fantastic choice. Bloodcrushers are nice but also slightly too expensive. Both have Battalions that can make them better but very little can compete with the theoretical maxed Brass Stampede. The moment you don't want to max out though both can offer some nice speedy support, though it becomes much more dicey... The LoKoJ has much more competition, by large gain because there are also very great Battalions who want you to thake a MLoK. In most cases it's the one or the other and as mentioned before, speeding up infantry is key the moment you run heavy on the infantry (which in most Khorne army cases, you should). Skullmasters are a rarity outside of Battalions, do compete with Skulltaker but for Murderhost I'd always go for a Skullmaster + The Crimson Crown/Mark of the Slayer combination because it's just amazing at 100 points. The fact he's such a budget Hero with that survivability is just really good in combination with really good Battalions, such as Murderhost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspirant Snaeper Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 As the others have said, in the comparison of Bloodthunder vs. Brass Stampede, the Mighty Skullcrushers and Brass Stampede are better. In comparing the Skullmaster vs. Lord on Juggernaught, the Lord wins in multiple ways (although the Skullmaster has the merit of being cheaper 100 v 140). Lastly, comparing the Mighty Skullcrushers vs Bloodcrushers unit to unit, the Skullcrushers are better. But the Bloodcrushers and Skullmaster, especially as part of the Murderhost battalion, can come into their own. I enjoy using my Bloodcrushers because they're the biggest things in my army usually, and thus attract a lot of attention (especially when they start rushing down the board towards my opponents). As they're usually one of the first units that is going to see combat, I have no problem giving them Killing Frenzy to improve their mortal wound output, and I usually run Murderhost alongside Gore Pilgrims, so they'll be getting two attacks with their swords and mortal wounds on 5's. Putting a Skullmaster (or in my case, keeping Skulltaker close enough), lets them re-roll hits which is great for them since that increases their mortal wound output even more. Pile on the potential mw's they can put out for charging, then throw the Juggernaughts respectable attacks on as well and they'll earn their points back every game if you target larger monsters, hero's or behemoths that your opponent has placed at the front. Even then (and this applies to the Skullcrushers as well), even if they aren't running around killing everything, your opponent will be forced to deal with them, because if he doesn't, he could give you the charge which he shouldn't want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iradekhorne Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Allegiance: ChaosLeadersSkullmaster, Herald of Khorne (100)Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)Battleline3 x Bloodcrushers (160)- Khorne Daemon Battleline (Skullmaster Herald of Khorne General)3 x Bloodcrushers (160)- Khorne Daemon Battleline (Skullmaster Herald of Khorne General)3 x Bloodcrushers (160)- Khorne Daemon Battleline (Skullmaster Herald of Khorne General)3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)- Ensorcelled Axes- Khorne Bloodbound Battleline3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)- Ensorcelled Axes- Khorne Bloodbound Battleline3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)- Ensorcelled Axes- Khorne Bloodbound Battleline3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)- Ensorcelled Axes- Khorne Bloodbound Battleline3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)- Ensorcelled Axes- Khorne Bloodbound Battleline3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)- Ensorcelled Axes- Khorne Bloodbound Battleline3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)- Ensorcelled Axes- Khorne Bloodbound BattlelineBattalionsBloodthunder Stampede (80)Brass Stampede (80)Total: 2000/2000 why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Haha cool! Im missing a Bloodsecrator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 I always wondered if that kind of list would do ok in a 1000 point game. LOKOJ, 3 MSC/3MSC/6MSC, Brass stampede and +140 point of something (an additional LoKOJ, 20 reavers or a Bloodsecrator). 2 drops, abusive immunity to Tzeentch lists, low model count. But dam, YOU LOOK COOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 I thank everyone for the input of knowledge and advice given. Here is my 2000(1940 actually) and advice would be great. thank you for your time, have a great day. Allegiance: ChaosLeadersLord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)- General- Trait: Slaughterborn - Artefact: Gorecleaver Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)- Artefact: Gorecleaver Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)Battleline (all have blood glaives) 6 Mighty Skullcrushers 6 Mighty Skullcrushers 3 Mighty Skullcrushers 3 Mighty Skullcrushers 3 Mighty Skullcrushers 3 Mighty Skullcrushers 3 Mighty SkullcrushersBattalionsBrass Stampede (80)Total: 1940/2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jharen Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 With that 60 points left over you could drop one of your Lords (the one without an artifact) and take 2 Skullmaster Heralds instead if you wanted to offer a little bit more target saturation and just to make use of the left over points. It wouldn't make a huge difference either way, and honestly the Lord on Juggernaut is probably more thematically fitting to the list you've got there but thought I'd throw it out as an option. Something else you could do is to drop one of the Lords as above, and use the 200 points to take 2 Gorebeast Chariots, of course replacing the Gorebeast model with Juggernauts. This would give your list a bit more visual appeal and diversity while still sticking with your theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 7 hours ago, Jharen said: With that 60 points left over you could drop one of your Lords (the one without an artifact) and take 2 Skullmaster Heralds instead if you wanted to offer a little bit more target saturation and just to make use of the left over points. It wouldn't make a huge difference either way, and honestly the Lord on Juggernaut is probably more thematically fitting to the list you've got there but thought I'd throw it out as an option. Something else you could do is to drop one of the Lords as above, and use the 200 points to take 2 Gorebeast Chariots, of course replacing the Gorebeast model with Juggernauts. This would give your list a bit more visual appeal and diversity while still sticking with your theme. cant. removes bloodbound allegiance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Arkiham said: cant. removes bloodbound allegiance Yup. Batteline is silly @Uprising Though what I would consider is dropping 1 KLoJ for a Bloodsecrator and a Bloodstoker. Seems like 200 points well spend to go 2000/2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jharen Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Arkiham said: cant. removes bloodbound allegiance derp. of course. 1 hour ago, Killax said: Though what I would consider is dropping 1 KLoJ for a Bloodsecrator and a Bloodstoker. Seems like 200 points well spend to go 2000/2000. What I was going to suggest but he mentioned he wanted everything on a Juggernaut. Considered suggesting he just model them riding one, but the base size wouldn't work out too well there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jharen said: What I was going to suggest but he mentioned he wanted everything on a Juggernaut. Considered suggesting he just model them riding one, but the base size wouldn't work out too well there. Put the Bloodsecrator and Bloodstoker on a tiny old Juggernaut, problem solved! Really though I have the same advice for many, if you want to keep the army visually the same I wouldn't ignore all the cool options to convert. Same with Daemon armies, you'll want/need that Bloodsecrator, it's a small job to put a Bloodletter head on that Bloodsecrator body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 You could easily convert a bloodsecrator onto a jugg tbh. just cut at the waist. everything should fit fine from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 I thank you all for your advice. I will be replacing the lord with a bloodsecrator(riding on a jug) while the bloodstroker with be in a chariot(that poor jug would have to carry him, so a chariot for him). I do plan on working on my bloodbound soon, Just have to get my 250 ish savage orcs army painted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Uprising said: I thank you all for your advice. I will be replacing the lord with a bloodsecrator(riding on a jug) while the bloodstroker with be in a chariot(that poor jug would have to carry him, so a chariot for him). I do plan on working on my bloodbound soon, Just have to get my 250 ish savage orcs army painted. Do this also. Easy to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 39 minutes ago, Arkiham said: Do this also. jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 21 minutes ago, Killax said: jk Yeah that got stuck to me finger lol, glue wasn't gluing so used super, once I realised what happened it was too late.. Might have to have a go at removing it. I'll the painted one. Hang about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Still gotta finish it, edging etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Looks sweet mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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