Drawn in for the Kill versus Balewind vortex

[btronk]

The Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury has the ability "Drawn in for the Kill" which, if successful, states that the whip he holds can bring a model to within 3" of himself presumably to be able to attack in melee combat.

However, what about a wizard atop a balewind vortex? The vortex states that no model may move to within 3" (check, Bloodthirster is not doing that). Would the wizard atop the vortex be moved towards the bloodthirster, would the vortex stay, or would the vortex be dispelled? 

Can the bloodthirster pile in and/or attack in the combat phase?

[Tasman]

On 5/8/2017 at 1:45 PM, btronk said:

The Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury has the ability "Drawn in for the Kill" which, if successful, states that the whip he holds can bring a model to within 3" of himself presumably to be able to attack in melee combat.

However, what about a wizard atop a balewind vortex? The vortex states that no model may move to within 3" (check, Bloodthirster is not doing that). Would the wizard atop the vortex be moved towards the bloodthirster, would the vortex stay, or would the vortex be dispelled? 

Can the bloodthirster pile in and/or attack in the combat phase?

This came up in a game we played in a small tourney.... but not with a BT. Rather it was the slaughterpriest prayer that brings your opponent closer to your army. I'm not sure if we ruled on it properly but, for this event, it was determined that the vortex cannot move and it is stated in its rule that only the caster can dismiss it so the prayer failed. Not sure this answers the question. It's just how we dealt with it at the time. Great topic Can't wait to see what anyone else's take on this is.

[Thomas Lyons]

Both of these abilities should pull the models on top of the Vortex off of it with the vortex itself remaining in place.  If the forced movement ends the models within 3" of the vortex base, they get pushed out to 3" (all likely toward the model pulling them since it is all in a straight line) to be beyond 3" of the Vortex, as per the Vortex's rule.  Since no one is on top of the Vortex any longer, it remains as a terrain piece but is no longer dismissible since no one is on the terrain piece any longer.

[Jharen]

This question is a double post, so I'll just re-post what my answer in the other copy is:

 

Drawn in for the kill would pull the wizard towards him as per the abilities rules.  Nothing states that the wizard atop the vortex can not be moved off of it.

Once the wizard is removed from the vortex the vortex would remain in place.  Another wizard (or the same one) may climb atop the vortex at this point if his move is far enough to do so.  Note that the rules for the Balewind vortex states that models may not be moved within 3" of it while a wizard is atop it.  Once there is no longer a wizard atop the vortex then models may freely move within 3 inches of it.

2 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said:

Both of these abilities should pull the models on top of the Vortex off of it with the vortex itself remaining in place.  If the forced movement ends the models within 3" of the vortex base, they get pushed out to 3" (all likely toward the model pulling them since it is all in a straight line) to be beyond 3" of the Vortex, as per the Vortex's rule.  Since no one is on top of the Vortex any longer, it remains as a terrain piece but is no longer dismissible since no one is on the terrain piece any longer.

There should be no pushing out to 3" once the wizard is pulled off of it due to there no longer being a wizard atop the vortex the 3" rule no longer applies.  Once another wizard manages to climb atop the vortex the 3" rule will be in effect once more.  As to the ability for a wizard to 'climb' a vortex, well the rules state we can move vertically up terrain pieces so long as we measure the distance.  Sure that may seem silly in cases such as a swirling vortex of fire/magical energy but it's a blanket rule so you just have to house rule that to your liking and work it out with your group/opponent/TO.

[RuneBrush]

On 2017-5-8 at 7:45 PM, btronk said:

However, what about a wizard atop a balewind vortex? The vortex states that no model may move to within 3" (check, Bloodthirster is not doing that). Would the wizard atop the vortex be moved towards the bloodthirster, would the vortex stay, or would the vortex be dispelled?

No, as per the Balewind Vortex "Held Aloft" rule a Wizard atop a Balewind Vortex cannot move.  Basically you end up with a bizzare tug of war  

Edit: There is an argument that the Slaughterpriest Prayer should force the Wizard to dispel the Balewind and then run, but as written probably not.

[Arkiham]

You cannot move while atop the balewind 

[Squirrelmaster]

It's not clear whether "cannot move" implies "cannot be moved", that could be read either way (if I'm paralysed, that doesn't stop someone else from picking me up and carrying me).

Otherwise, a rule stating that you cannot do X takes precedence over a rule telling you to do X.

[Jharen]

Fair enough.  I'd assumed (which is always bad in AoS rules) the intent of the "cannot move" was toward the wizard in regards to any type of regular movements (normal, charge, pile-in).  The ability Drawn in for the Kill doesn't state that it's a movement in the traditional sense, as it's an ability, and the wizard isn't so much moving as he is...being moved?  But fair enough rules as written in the strictest reading means he cannot be pulled off of it I suppose as the balewind vortex simply makes the blanket statement "he cannot move" which would apply to all instances of physically moving the model.

That being said... the rules give us a list of what counts as moves, and we have abilities that state "as if it were the movement phase" and then we have an entire selection of abilities that seem to want to break these rules, and suggest in a logical sort of application that they should, and in some instances they do, but then others that actually don't.  I fear the amount of rules bloat and FAQ bloat this game is going to have within the next couple years at this rate...

 

[Arkiham]

Unsurprising 

 

I'd expect them to deal with rule priority in ghb2.0. Its clearly an issue 

[Tasman]

15 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

Unsuspecting.

 

I'd expect them to deal with rule priority in ghb2.0. Its clearly an issue 

Truth. Until then, in games at the store or at home, I think that the "cannot move" definition applies best.

[Terry Pike]

This also came up at SCGT with the slaughterpriest ability on a unit that failed mystical. I wanted to drag the unit towards me, it wasn't allowed to move because it was "befuddled/stupid"

[Nico]

Quote

This also came up at SCGT with the slaughterpriest ability on a unit that failed mystical. I wanted to drag the unit towards me, it wasn't allowed to move because it was "befuddled/stupid" 

This vaguely makes sense.

Purposively the Whip or something like the old Hand of Gork spell which literally picks up the unit should still work on a stupid model - you're moving it, rather than it moving itself. Similarly you could Skitterleap a stupid Skaven hero as the caster is moving it not the stupid unit moving itself.