More Kharadron Questions

[Fisdantilus]

Seems every time I read the rules for this army I have another question.

 

The Grapnel Launcher is used at the end of the shooting phase after all other shooting is done. Does that mean the unit with grapnel hook must be the last unit to shoot or can the rest of the weapons in the unit shoot, you move to another unit and then come back to do the grapnels?

 

Can a grapnel pull you out of combat? You can shoot while in combat and don't have to target the unit you are in combat with so it seems you can shoot out of combat and then move as per the rule. Seems this would allow you to shoot, move, and then charge. Is that correct?

 

Thanks again.

 

 

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[Jharen]

The model with the Grapnel Launcher fires it at the end of the shooting phase after all other shooting has been resolved.  This would mean that you finish all your shooting phase attacks as per the normal rules in the order you choose to do so and then activate this ability.  It is not itself a shooting attack, it is an ability which triggers at the end of the shooting phase which means it does not follow the normal rules for shooting.  So yes, you may activate the unit to shoot, go to another unit and shoot with it, then activate this ability at the end of the phase.

 

Yes you may grapnel out of combat as nothing is in the rule to indicate that you cannot do so.  It is not a move in the movement phase nor does it state that you move as if it were the movement phase.  It is an ability.  This removes it from the general rules for a move regarding retreating, running, and normal movement.  You may grapnel out of combat, then charge in the following charge phase because you did not run or retreat in the previous movement phase.

[Spinsane]

IMHO, not thinking of the Grapnel Launcher as shooting but rather as a special ability that takes place during the shooting phase resolves any timing confusion one might have...

As for retreating, I'd say it not only can, but actually must (if it hits) pull the unit out of combat...

[Fisdantilus]

Thanks guys...that is how I read both of those but wanted to be sure. Definitely thinking of it as an ability rather than an attack makes it much clearer.




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[Dez]

Yeah I've decided on 3 GH in a unit of 9 for redundancy because there is no bonus to hit with it.

[stato]

On 2017-5-6 at 7:39 PM, Jharen said:

You may grapnel out of combat, then charge in the following charge phase because you did not run or retreat in the previous movement phase.

Woah!  Hadnt even considered this little gem. Interesting. Mind, they need to survive a combat to do this, and thats not an easy task if you only have 3 in the unit.

[Nico]

However that's still a retreat this turn, so you still cannot charge. The no charging if you retreat rule refers to the turn, not just the movement phase.

[stato]

 

1 hour ago, Nico said:

However that's still a retreat this turn, so you still cannot charge. The no charging if you retreat rule refers to the turn, not just the movement phase.

Retreat rules states "units starting the movement phase within 3 " for determining if you are retreating, so maybe you are right. The 'ability' does say 'move' the unit, so logical path that at the beginning of the movement phase they were in combat, and then you 'move' away, so it is a retreat. I could see some argument here though. 

Mind, if that is the case Skywardens will get to drop some bombs on the way out too ;0)

 

Another thing to consider with grapnels;  If you have more than 1 in a unit can they use the trick twice?? as it states models with grapnels, not units, so potential 48" move if you have the targets and the luck with the rolls?

[Paul Buckler]

@Nico is right, it's a retreat.  You move away from models in combat.  No mention of set-up or other such wording to confuse matters in this one.

 

Double grapple moves, hmm feels a bit wrong to me, but wording may be ambiguous enough for some to try it.

[Thomas Lyons]

On May 6, 2017 at 7:43 PM, Dez said:

Yeah I've decided on 3 GH in a unit of 9 for redundancy because there is no bonus to hit with it.

Yes, the real big question here is if these are rolled simultaneously, or individually.  If individually, then you should be able to zipline multiple times.  Normally, when abilities activate simultaneously, you choose the order (rather than all happening at the same time).  If this indeed is the case, then you should be able to make multiple 24" jumps.

[Dez]

3 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

Yes, the real big question here is if these are rolled simultaneously, or individually.  If individually, then you should be able to zipline multiple times.  Normally, when abilities activate simultaneously, you choose the order (rather than all happening at the same time).  If this indeed is the case, then you should be able to make multiple 24" jumps.

Oh if this is how they work...I'm only going to be fielding Endrinriggers in my army

[Thomas Lyons]

Just now, Dez said:

Oh if this is how they work...I'm only going to be fielding Endrinriggers in my army

Agreed.  When I realized this, I it dawned on me that it would be worth reconsidering running multiple units of these guys, especially since this functionally allows you to shoot and retreat (HUGE retreat!) every round.  HMMMMMMMMM........

[stato]

Thing is though, it seriously compromises there ability to inflict damage. The pistols are pretty weak and volley gun only ok. No skyhooks or drills if you are running multiple grapples. 

[Dez]

The magic is in their Saws, especially if you take bigger units and have a Khemist bfff

[Spinsane]

1 minute ago, Dez said:

The magic is in their Saws, especially if you take bigger units and have a Khemist bfff

Which means you'd usually prefer to remain in combat, rather than retreat with the grapnel.

Of course, being able to charge a unit from an insanely long distance away if they're not already in melee can be really powerful, especially with riggers' awesome CC potential!

[Jharen]

8 hours ago, Nico said:

However that's still a retreat this turn, so you still cannot charge. The no charging if you retreat rule refers to the turn, not just the movement phase.

I agree, Nico is correct here.  I was mistaken in my original post concerning charging after this ability.