Let's chat Kharadron Overlords

[The Traitor]

2 minutes ago, Shorewood said:

The problem isn't that he isn't good, he is, its just that he competes with the khemist and given that the khemist is at the moment the cornerstone of the entire army, well.... do i give my guys more movement or do I actually want to kill the enemy?  

Well, I guess you have a point but, what I meant was to take him in addition to the Khemist, not replacing him.

Also we must accept that the Khemist stacking as many times as Khemists you can afford won't last for long, we must plan ahead or we will find ourselves with a lot of Khemists on the shelves!

[Shorewood]

5 minutes ago, The Traitor said:

Well, I guess you have a point but, what I meant was to take him in addition to the Khemist, not replacing him.

Also we must accept that the Khemist stacking as many times as Khemists you can afford won't last for long, we must plan ahead or we will find ourselves with a lot of Khemists on the shelves!

the only real issue I have with the navigator is that he is more effective on the ground than he is on a ship.  cause I don't think he counts as being able to "see" any other models while embarked.  

[AlexHarrison]

I think it's a safe bet to just build lists whereby khemists do not stack to avoid disappointment 

[The Traitor]

12 minutes ago, Shorewood said:

the only real issue I have with the navigator is that he is more effective on the ground than he is on a ship.  cause I don't think he counts as being able to "see" any other models while embarked.  

I plan on leaving him behind with my mortar thunderers and my Khemists. For reference this is the list that I think I'll go for right now:

BARAK-VAL (Barak-Mhornar Rules) RAIDING COMPANY: 1980 Points
Iron Sky Squadron 80
10x Arkanaut Company 120
- 3 Aethermantic Volley Gun
10x Arkanaut Company 120
- 3 Aethermantic Volley Gun
10x Arkanaut Company 120
- 3 Light Skyhook
Arkanaut Frigate 280
- Heavy Skyhook
- Last Word
Arkanaut Frigate 280
- Heavy Skyhook
- Magnificent Omniscope

Aether Khemist 100
Aether Khemist 100
Aetheric Navigator 100
- General
3x Edrinriggers 120
3x Edrinriggers 120
3x Edrinriggers 120
3x Edrinriggers 120
10 Grundstok Thunderers 200
- 10 Grundstok Mortars

Artefacts for heroes and additional footnotes are still to be decided (any advice welcome on that, by the way).

About the Aetheric Navigator he will be left behind besides the Khemist and thunderers to provide the Mhornar boost while drawing fire away from the Khemist and Thunderers with his better save, in addition to all of the aforementioned benefits. 

And while we're at it, what do you guys think of this list? I actually though of it because I misread the Iron Sky Command battalion and though it required an Admiral instead of an Ironclad, but when I discovered that it didn't I just removed him and added additional edrinriggers. I think it has pretty much everything covered, with the thunderers+khemists+navigator in the backfield, skyhook arkanauts footslogging forward and frigates with volley gun arkanauts and edrinriggers going as fast as possible to get the companies into firing range and the riggers into assault.

In addition it has the benefit of being easily turned into a 1500 list by removing the Endrinriggers and into a 2500 list by adding an Ironclad and turning it into the Iron Sky Command it was meant to be.

[Shorewood]

while you would loose out on an artifact why not drop the iron sky and both frigates for an ironclad?  you'd save not an inconsiderable number of points while at the same time not loosing any real firepower throughout the game.  

[Mikester1487]

7 hours ago, Volund said:

I also am slightly confused. What are you looking to get from Barak-Zon? It seems like the only meaningful thing they get is to re-roll to-wounds of 1 when they charge. I am all about learning new tactics, embracing the abnormal, and milking every seemingly inoccuous bonus for all its worth! So please enlighten me.

I think having the charge in the hero phase is a fairly neat mechanic for hero sniping.  I've convinced myself that an endrinmaster with a khemist buff will earn his iron star by taking an enemy monster or hero and removing his face.  Its true their rules seem a bit lackluster compared to others, but I must find a way to make these work.

I'm afraid that I am no genius when it comes to tactics and am currently still trying to observe how these guys play out, but I will be using Barak-Zon.

[Spinsane]

Am I missing something? What does charging in the hero phase actually give that charging in the charge phase doesn't?

[Mikester1487]

41 minutes ago, Spinsane said:

Am I missing something? What does charging in the hero phase actually give that charging in the charge phase doesn't?

Right now it gives no noticeable difference other than not rolling dice in a later phase.  Perhaps ghb2 will have some change to that? 

[Chunk]

Notably, Mhornar can do the same thing once per game, but can also choose to pile in and attack as if it were the combat phase*. This does provide a benefit, as it basically gives you two combat phases in a single turn.

*They can either choose to charge as if it were the charge phase, or pile in and attack as if it were the combat phase, not both.

[Trebuchenanigans]

1 hour ago, Mikester1487 said:

I think having the charge in the hero phase is a fairly neat mechanic for hero sniping.  I've convinced myself that an endrinmaster with a khemist buff will earn his iron star by taking an enemy monster or hero and removing his face.  Its true their rules seem a bit lackluster compared to others, but I must find a way to make these work.

I'm afraid that I am no genius when it comes to tactics and am currently still trying to observe how these guys play out, but I will be using Barak-Zon.

I like your thinking. I am considering doing similar, but with an Admiral. Also using Barak-Zon.

I wonder if the GHB2 rules will introduce some initiative order based on who charges first and/or when? Maybe an extra attack on a successful charge in the Hero phase?

[Sactownbri]

I plan on leaving him behind with my mortar thunderers and my Khemists. For reference this is the list that I think I'll go for right now:
BARAK-VAL (Barak-Mhornar Rules) RAIDING COMPANY: 1980 Points>

Are you taking Mhornar to get the reroll to hit on your mortars? it looks like you are making choices with weapons and artifacts to move faster to compensate for playing the mortars a specific way. Is that accurate?


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[Sactownbri]

I think it's a safe bet to just build lists whereby khemists do not stack to avoid disappointment 

I think it's too soon to say such a thing. Khemist are quite a point sink. So far in my few games they've felt like glass cannons (three arkanaut companies, two frigates, one admiral. Building thunderers now). Arkanauts melt to a stern gaze in hand to hand. Low bravery and saves are a double whammy. The Frigates are sturdy but are magnetic to everything (magic, missiles, melee) and low saves hurt their staying power. Pumping up a unit to delete a big bad and afterward the sky pirates all run away feels right. That seems to be how they were built as an army.


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[Sactownbri]

So, I've been thinking of the following as my 2000points goal, what's everyone's opinion on the Grundstock Escort Wing?
Skyport : Barak-Thryng (extra is There's No Trading With Some People)
Leaders [2/6] : Aether-Khemist * 2 (General w/ Strickler for the Code [These are just Guidelines] and an artifact (the Armor?), other with Earbuster)
Battleline [3/3] : 10 Arkanaut * 3 (with Skyhooks or Volley Guns)
Artillery [3/4] : Gunhauler * 3 (with Drill Cannon)
Behemoth [1/4] : Frigate (Last Word)
Other [3] : 5 Thunderers * 2 (Aethercannons in one, possibly Fumigators in the other), 6 Skywardens (2 Volley guns, 2 Drill cannons)
Plan is to use the Escort Wing's +1 ToHit and Thryng's Grudge(s) to make the cannons as efficient as possible. Both units of Thunderers and the Wardens would begin the game on the Frigate, with the Aethercannons hopefully able to drop in range of an opponent on turn one whereas the 'haulers will provide extra wounds for the transport until the close-quarters Fumigators can get in range of a juicier target... Also possibly use the Honour the Gods re-roll on the TAJG roll to maximize usefullness of the new Artycle...
Thoughts?

Why fumigators? That requires you to get very close and sky pirates don't like to be close unless they are crazy enough to use a personal balloons.


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[AlexHarrison]

If you can stack khemists I will happily say hands down a mixed order list will become unstoppable ...just saying ?

[The Traitor]

5 hours ago, Shorewood said:

while you would loose out on an artifact why not drop the iron sky and both frigates for an ironclad?  you'd save not an inconsiderable number of points while at the same time not loosing any real firepower throughout the game.  

Because I think that the benefits from the Iron Sky Squadron are better than those provided by the Iron Sky Command and, additionally, I believe that having two frigates is better than having a single Ironclad, it means more threats for the enemy, more wounds to take down and you arkanauts can go to different places, which is handy for three places of power, for example.

2 hours ago, Sactownbri said:

 

Are you taking Mhornar to get the reroll to hit on your mortars? it looks like you are making choices with weapons and artifacts to move faster to compensate for playing the mortars a specific way. Is that accurate?


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I'm getting Mhornar for many reasons: first, as you said, it gives a rerol to the mortars, which seems pretty important for a weapon with a 4+ to hit; second, it allows me to run and shoot turn one, which seems to synergize well with the frigates having +1 attack on turn one because of the Iron Sky Squadron; and, at last, it gives que a very useful footnote (which does allow me to attack twice in combat, if I have it right) and an additional one,  which will probably be the one that allows you to exchange an article as Mhornar one isn't as impressive. 

About trying to move faster because of the mortars staying behind, it may be, I hadn't seen it that way before but, am I wrong to do it? Without an ironclad to carry them into range, the mortar is the only really viable weapon to kit the thunderers with, and I find it natuaral to try to get my other threats as far as possible to keep the enemy away. Also, as I said before, I want my army to be FAST :P.

[Tokyo Nift]

8 hours ago, Shorewood said:

The problem isn't that he isn't good, he is, its just that he competes with the khemist and given that the khemist is at the moment the cornerstone of the entire army, well.... do i give my guys more movement or do I actually want to kill the enemy?  

This, and also how many ships does one plan on bringing? I see one or two mainly. Discs of  Tzeentch are mobile, 16" move, KO are flexible rather than fast imo.

[Spinsane]

5 hours ago, Sactownbri said:

Why fumigators? That requires you to get very close and sky pirates don't like to be close unless they are crazy enough to use a personal balloons.


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It's just an initial thought, but the gist of it is that the Fumigator is the gun with the highest wound caused average, according to my calculations, no matter the target av or other modifiers... Is this something I'm very uncertain of, however. I'd go twin Aethercannons if I could, but alas I won't get 10 of them any time soon...

[Sactownbri]

If you can stack khemists I will happily say hands down a mixed order list will become unstoppable ...just saying [emoji16]

If I understand your comment correctly.... The aetheric augmentation only works on Skyfarers. That's one reason I don't think it's a mistake.


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[Sactownbri]

Also, as I said before, I want my army to be FAST .

Gotcha. That will definitely help you move fast while making the mortars more effective. If speed is the thing then I'm curious why not Zilfin?


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[Trebuchenanigans]

2 hours ago, Spinsane said:

It's just an initial thought, but the gist of it is that the Fumigator is the gun with the highest wound caused average, according to my calculations, no matter the target av or other modifiers... Is this something I'm very uncertain of, however. I'd go twin Aethercannons if I could, but alas I won't get 10 of them any time soon...

This is also why I was looking at fumigators for a forward Thunderers unit. The good thing is that they have that retreat option in the consolidation part of the combat phase. So while they may be a one-use missile, I'd used correctly they should do a load of damage to a key target. I figure that's worth 100 points (200 with a Khemist/additional 5 grunts). 

[Sactownbri]

It's just an initial thought, but the gist of it is that the Fumigator is the gun with the highest wound caused average, according to my calculations, no matter the target av or other modifiers... Is this something I'm very uncertain of, however. I'd go twin Aethercannons if I could, but alas I won't get 10 of them any time soon... [emoji20]

Fumigators are the best wound output on average to hot rolls against all armor values. My gripe about them is really range. Pretty much guaranteeing they will get charged the second your opponent realizes what they can do.


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[Spinsane]

1 minute ago, Sactownbri said:

Fumigators are the best wound output on average to hot rolls against all armor values. My gripe about them is really range. Pretty much guaranteeing they will get charged the second your opponent realizes what they can do.


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I know, range is an issue, but truth be told, the aethercannon's extra 3" won't really do much in a vast majority of instances; everyone seems to have either a move stat that will render that difference insignificant, or have movement abilities that will make that 3" irrelevant (i.e. Everyone in Destruction)

[Sactownbri]

This, and also how many ships does one plan on bringing? I see one or two mainly. Discs of  Tzeentch are mobile, 16" move, KO are flexible rather than fast imo.

I assume you are talking itc/gt tournament. I don't know anyone that plays that silliness locally.


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[Sactownbri]

It's just an initial thought, but the gist of it is that the Fumigator is the gun with the highest wound caused average, according to my calculations, no matter the target av or other modifiers... Is this something I'm very uncertain of, however. I'd go twin Aethercannons if I could, but alas I won't get 10 of them any time soon... [emoji20]

Kitbash with the irondrakes box, boom 10 cannons!


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[Mikester1487]

For ships I think 2 frigates and an ironclad all rocking sky cannons sounds like a good time.  Gun haulers serve a purpose, but I want to take too many Thunderers at 2k and those ships are points heavy..