Nico Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Quote Thomas.. can you run by me the casualty bit you were talking about. How you maintained the 5+ buff from the harbinger while breaking the coherency bubble. As long as you don't pile in you don't have to move into coherency? This is something where you would need to keep an eye out for house rules. From memory you cannot do this (deliberately breaking coherency by allocating casualties to keep the buffs) under Mo-Comp for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 1 hour ago, sal4m4nd3r said: Thomas.. can you run by me the casualty bit you were talking about. How you maintained the 5+ buff from the harbinger while breaking the coherency bubble. As long as you don't pile in you don't have to move into coherency? Absolutely! Here are the FAQ's of significance (literally all on pages 1 and 2, immediately following one another): So, looking at that zoning image, you can see the "T" formation the Warriors advance in with their Sayl-fly/charge. Once engaged and you start taking causalities, you can remove those casualties from anywhere in the line (according to the FAQ), even if removing those casualties would break coherency (as per the FAQ question #1 above). So, once I know that I am where I want to be with engaged units, I start pulling casualties from the gaps on the front lines between units and along the tail since I won't be able to move or pile-in if in doing could not reestablish coherency (as per the FAQ question #2 above). The key is always to leave 1 model within 7" of the Harbinger so he is always within range of the bubble (as per the FAQ question #3 above). Similarly, you just need that one guy in the back field to receive the buffs from the Sorcerer Lord (Daemonic Power or Oracular Visions and Inspiring Presence) and Sayl (Fly or Mystic Shield). Leaving one guy near your starting line will keep all of your buffers far out of range of just about anything but long siege (48"), which almost no one is running. You can fill your midfield with threat (with Belakor/Blightkings) or zone areas (with Marauders/Blightkings) so that high mobility ranged units either can't get close enough to pressure your buffers or they could be potentially killed with counter charges. 1 hour ago, Nico said: This is something where you would need to keep an eye out for house rules. From memory you cannot do this (deliberately breaking coherency by allocating casualties to keep the buffs) under Mo-Comp for example. Interesting and good to know. I haven't ever seen this comped by an event before as it directly contradicts the FAQ. I'll keep an eye out for it. Given this, I understand why they would do it. There were times where the closest model from the same unit was 24"+ away from my guy in the back field who was receiving buffs. I can imagine it was pretty frustrating at times. That said, who said rank and file combat is dead in AOS? Chaos Warriors still do it like its in style ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Quote Interesting and good to know. I haven't ever seen this comped by an event before as it directly contradicts the FAQ. I'll keep an eye out for it. Given this, I understand why they would do it. No problem. I was a little surprised by this ruling in the FAQ when they made it originally. I don't think that it would be changed with your combo in mind, I think the more frequent issue is where a unit in a line gets hit on both ends and people want to remove the middle dudes who are in limbo between the enemy units - this potentially causes headaches later in the game - for example if the unit in the line wipes out the enemies on its left, but only after taking casualties that sever the coherency with its right (let's say there's a 4" gap) then the left models will be unable to pile in (and so they just stand there until the right models die or retreat). Thinking about it again, if the rule was that you couldn't break coherency ever, then it's not "realistic" that the dudes in limbo would just stand there thinking "I better just stand here doing nothing but being coherent and not help my buddies". More likely the unit would indeed split into two with the middle guys moving up to plug casualties on either end of the unit. This might be part of the reasoning behind the FAQ - so the game-play feels more fluid and "realistic". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 This is a very cool build. I'll admit to stealing it the other day against a Seraphon army.... worked like a charm. He was unable to bring his chameleon skinks in behind my lines as per usual, and when he brought them out in front to try and snipe my heroes, they were easily countered with magic and then charged by the warriors. End of that pesky unit, and, really, the game as well for him. I watched the frustration build with glee as he tried to deal with those buffed warriors. I intend to keep this one in my bag of tricks so it doesn't get stale right away. Great fun. I agree with you, Thomas, about the deceptive nature of the build. No shooting. No big behemoth. No rending attacks (except the DP) We rolled up Hold Or Die for the scenario. My opponent was lulled into thinking that he'd be able to sit back on his objective, snipe away with the skinks and bastilodons and wear me down. By turn 3 I was within 6" of his and the game was over. I love using the Harbinger. He was my MVP again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Quote This is a very cool build. I'll admit to stealing it the other day against a Seraphon army.... worked like a charm. He was unable to bring his chameleon skinks in behind my lines as per usual I don't follow. They are one of the absolute set-up rules. They can go literally anywhere. I guess he wouldn't want them to be in combat, but they can set up anywhere (and if necessary move). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 40 minutes ago, Nico said: I don't follow. They are one of the absolute set-up rules. They can go literally anywhere. I guess he wouldn't want them to be in combat, but they can set up anywhere (and if necessary move). I checked their scroll on the app, and you are correct. I deployed so as to give him less than 3" anywhere on my side of the table. This was accomplished by using the extra 120 pts for 20 more marauders. I guess he either totally mis-played them, or was too cautious with them. Either way, the result was the same. They were toast. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.. For the rest of the game, the battalion behaved exactly as Thomas Lyons stated: Once the warrior unit had done its job and opened a gap in the middle, causing him to move units in to fill it, I simply "Sayl-ed" (see what I did there?) the remainder out of harms way and charged in with a unit of BKs from the flank. This put me within 6" of his objective for the auto win. He never saw it coming. So focused on what was going on in the middle of the table in front of his marker, he totally forgot about the 'small' unit of BKs moving up on the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 This is so evil. What kind of wrecked mind could have imagined that? For some reason, i always thought that when a unit broke coherency while removing casualty, it had to reform in the next movement phase, running away from combat if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Unfortunatly, Sayl is still at the heart of every cruel Chaos strategy. This guy is omnipresent for a named character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 1 hour ago, kozokus said: Unfortunatly, Sayl is still at the heart of every cruel Chaos strategy. This guy is omnipresent for a named character. Not too surprising, though. I usually only use him in Nurgle lists because they are sooooo slow. I personally don't think that using him to give a bit of mobility to an otherwise slow, underwhelming (as far as rend goes) force is a particularly bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 1 hour ago, kozokus said: This is so evil. What kind of wrecked mind could have imagined that? For some reason, i always thought that when a unit broke coherency while removing casualty, it had to reform in the next movement phase, running away from combat if possible. I also thought this. I was in a game with a noob when this very same circumstance came up. We looked it up and, I must say, a light went on for me at that point.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Watch out though, many Khorne armies out there will have a hero with an artefact that gives them a once per game auto unbind with infinite range. This is on top of the auto unbind from the Blood Tithe. This should reduce the frequency of Sayl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 4 hours ago, kozokus said: This is so evil. What kind of wrecked mind could have imagined that? I'll take credit for this. It took some time to refine, but it is potent and hard to counter. 4 hours ago, kozokus said: For some reason, i always thought that when a unit broke coherency while removing casualty, it had to reform in the next movement phase, running away from combat if possible. Only if you decide to move (including pile-in). If you are content to leave your models where they are, you are free to break coherency. 1 hour ago, Nico said: Watch out though, many Khorne armies out there will have a hero with an artefact that gives them a once per game auto unbind with infinite range. This is on top of the auto unbind from the Blood Tithe. This should reduce the frequency of Sayl. Agreed. Its my understanding that the Blood Tithe won't be available in turn 1 without dead units, correct? Khorne will certainly become more competitive with these changes against this list, although I still don't think it rises to the level of being scary. The reality is that I tanked a Khorne list from the top of turn 1 for the entire duration my second Adepticon game. I lost zero units the entire game because they were locked behind my Chaos Warriors. Blood Tithe points will likely be hard to come by from my own forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jharen Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 20 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said: Agreed. Its my understanding that the Blood Tithe won't be available in turn 1 without dead units, correct? Khorne will certainly become more competitive with these changes against this list, although I still don't think it rises to the level of being scary. The reality is that I tanked a Khorne list from the top of turn 1 for the entire duration my second Adepticon game. I lost zero units the entire game because they were locked behind my Chaos Warriors. Blood Tithe points will likely be hard to come by from my own forces. There's an artifact called the Brazen Rune which can be used once per game to auto unbind an enemy spell. No blood tithe required. Also Blood Tithe can be built up pretty reliably using Slaughterpriest prayers, artifacts, and command traits. Still, unhinging a tanky list is going to be difficult for Khorne I suspect as the lack of rend is still very real. Bloodletter bombs could get more frightening maybe with the possibility of multiple pile in and attacks in a single turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal4m4nd3r Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 My overall thought on this topic: I applaud the ****** out of Thomas for coming up with an amazingly unique and interesting way to way to take advantage of such a lazy and boring rule/game mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 49 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said: My overall thought on this topic: I applaud the ****** out of Thomas for coming up with an amazingly unique and interesting way to way to take advantage of such a lazy and boring rule/game mechanic. Thanks! My actual run down of the matches may get some airtime in some very public channels soon as well. Stay tuned... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 17 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said: Thanks! My actual run down of the matches may get some airtime in some very public channels soon as well. Stay tuned... :-) I for one will be looking forward to seeing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 @Thomas Lyons been reading a lot of your stuff, ive noticed that your 2,000pts list has changed a lot since your youtube video with mc1gamer Im going to slowly build my army to 2,000pts and love your new list, was wondering if your 1,000 pts list has changed or if you still feel the list with the warshrine is still the strongest option for 1000pts or have you changed it around? p.s happy to see what other people feel also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 On July 6, 2017 at 11:49 PM, Josh said: @Thomas Lyons been reading a lot of your stuff, ive noticed that your 2,000pts list has changed a lot since your youtube video with mc1gamer Im going to slowly build my army to 2,000pts and love your new list, was wondering if your 1,000 pts list has changed or if you still feel the list with the warshrine is still the strongest option for 1000pts or have you changed it around? p.s happy to see what other people feel also Thanks! my list has certainly changed a lot for sure (that video is pretty old as well) :-) I haven't thought too much on 1000 point lists for Nurgle since it would completely change the play style from the Plaguetouched Warband. I don't think the Warshrine is the strongest option for 1k as I've soured quite a bit on it. If I were to run a 1k event this weekend, I would probably do something like this (although this isn't the most competitive list at 1k out there): 140 Harbringer of Decay [General] 60 10 Chaos Marauders or 5 Nurgle Furies (possibly summonable) 180 5 Blight Kings 180 5 Blight Kings 180 10 Chaos Warriors 240 Belakor That said, it looks like things are about to get shaken up with GHB 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal4m4nd3r Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said: That said, it looks like things are about to get shaken up with GHB 2.0. I'm hoping for some pretty serious point adjustments, mortal nurgle to gain disgustingly resilient like plague marines did in 40k, and would love for nurgles rot to be an army wide ability as opposed to just lord of plagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 41 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said: I'm hoping for some pretty serious point adjustments, mortal nurgle to gain disgustingly resilient like plague marines did in 40k, and would love for nurgles rot to be an army wide ability as opposed to just lord of plagues. We'll see. I suspect that we'll know soon if Nurgle is going to get its own book with the GHB 2 (if it has an allegiance ability, it probably won't be getting a book any time soon). I suspect we'll see the price of a bunch of StD units go down as well, which will help Nurgle as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 5 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said: snip** Thanks heaps for the reply! Thats awesome! my local store has lots of 1000pts stuff and was hoping it would be something to build to the 2000pt list, but as you said Im holding off before getting too commited on the list also would love to see more on your youtube channel! I have found whats on there super helpful, I use to play in 7th but new to AOS and it has taught me lots and i think helped me get better quicker, keep up the good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmzz0r Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Hi Thomas, i write at your blog but not sure you look there anymore, anyhow, my question: How would you build a plaguetouched warband at 1500 points? Is it still viable without mystic shield or daemonic power, can you play with just one of them. I find it really difficult to fit 2 sorcerers. Without Belakor you have nothing to counter hardhitters, but maybe thats fine? Only option to fit that is going 28 maurauders insteadof warrior, but that would not be the same. I really like it with warriors. so options now are: harbinger rotbringer sorc 28 chaos warriors 10 maurauders 10 maurauders 5 maurauder horsemen 5 blightkings 5 blightkings or would this be better: harbinger chaos sorc lord 28 chaos warriors 10 maurauders 10 maurauders 10 maurauders 5 blightkings 5 blightkings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowgra Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Personally i would drop blightkings instead of warriors at 1.5k since they can wither anything at that point cap. Absolutely drop rotbringer sorcerer, it sucks. However without sayl the plaguetouched really is hard to say it's worth. You are so slow at getting in the opponent's face and to give him a first turn threat to deal with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 8 hours ago, Kmzz0r said: Hi Thomas, i write at your blog but not sure you look there anymore, anyhow, my question: How would you build a plaguetouched warband at 1500 points? Is it still viable without mystic shield or daemonic power, can you play with just one of them. I find it really difficult to fit 2 sorcerers. Without Belakor you have nothing to counter hardhitters, but maybe thats fine? Only option to fit that is going 28 maurauders insteadof warrior, but that would not be the same. I really like it with warriors. I actually responded to this on your Facebook post but, of the two, I would take the second list. That said, I don't think Plaguetouched works at 1.5k. You really need 2k to make the combo work and have all the needed tools. Personally, I would explore other lists at 1.5k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmzz0r Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Hi, sorry I missed that. Yeah Linda like I thought. Didnt feel good like that. Back to drawing table thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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