Feedback on Potential 2000 Points (Competitive)

[Gauche]

I'm looking to get some feedback on what by this point is I'm sure a fairly standard Kunnin' Rukk build. However I'd like to break some things down that I've noticed about the list which strikes me as a bit awkward and potentially find some ways to smooth out those edges. Here's the basic list I have:

Frostlord on Stonehorn w/ Battle Brew

Savage Orc Big Boss w/ Talisman of Protection

Maniak Weirdnob

10x Savage Orruk Arrow Boys

40x Savage Orruk Arrow Boys (General - Bellowing Tyrant)

20x Moonclan Grots w/ Spears/Shields, 3x Netters

20x Moonclan Grots w/ Spears/Shields, 3x Netters

20x Moonclan Grots w/ Spears/Shields, 3x Netters

1x Fanatic

1x Fanatic

1x Fanatic

1x Kunnin' Rukk

Points: 1670/2000

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So the core of the Army is the same as many of the lists people post: a lot of Shooting with easily stacked Buffs and screening Units to buy time and/or deny landing zones against Flying and Teleporting. The army includes a Frostlord on Stonehorn as an additional threat to deal with and a more reliable tarpit, as well as a Hero who can go up the board in Scenario play. That being said, here are my issues:

1. General Choice

The General is very important to this list since Bellowing Tyrant plays a big role in making the Arrow Boys what they are. A lot of builds will run the Unit Champion, or another Unit Champion, as the General because they're much harder to get rid of than a standard Hero. Since Bellowing Tyrant has a d6" range whichever model has it needs to be in the thick of things and cannot rely on LoS blocking to keep them safe.

Now the Arrow Boys Champion is a fine choice, but it also wastes any Command Abilities the army may have. This stings particularly badly because the Big Boss's Ability is so good on the big Arrow Boys Unit but if he's the General than not only is he a huge target but you have to keep him within 1" of the Arrow Boys at all times or it's a potential disaster. He can be protected from melee by bubble-wrapping him in models but guns are a thing and most of them have impressive threat ranges. I thought about testing him in the back, leaving a small congo line of Arrow Boys to him for Bellow Tyrant purposes but it still seems very risky.

2. Threat Density

A significant portion of the list is dedicated towards screening Units which enable the Arrow Boys to do their thing. While this isn't much more than other lists pay for their chaff that only exists to camp Objectives (typically 300 Points vs. my 450) it still detracts from the army when combined with how many Buffs I'm taking. For example, I put 100 Points into a Weirdnob when I could just drop him and replace him with the Big Boss Command Ability (mathematically the same output). Some versions of this list run even more Support, such as a Grot Shaman to Mystic Shield the Stonehorn. This feels like all my eggs are in....1.5 baskets and leaves me yearning for another Threat. Sadly there really aren't points for that and when you start peeling Support away to add another Threat, it sort of just events out.

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With those concerns in mind I've been strongly considering dropping the smaller Arrow Boys Unit for a unit of Savage Orruk Boys. This would count as Battleline, allowing me to save 150 Points on a Grot Unit, and use those Points to add, well quite a few different options. I could go for Huskard on Thundertusk + Grot Shaman, a second Stonehorn, etc.

The only real drawback with this is the Grots are a better screen than the Savage Orruks. They have the same Wounds but the Grots have a better Save, cover a bigger footprint, stand up to Shooting better, and have the double screen in the form of a Fanatic. The Savage Orruks fight a bit better and stand up to Combat Battle Shocks better but that's about it.

Overall there are a lot of ways to run this build by attaching the Kunnin' Rukk module to things and ultimately that's a strength of the list. I wish I could find a way to make the Big Boss work as the General in the face of any opponent but with the LoS rules for the game I don't think that's viable. If only you pay points for a Building.

So what seems like the optimal way to run this list to you, why? I'm particularly curious about one Stonehorn + Shaman/Thundertusk vs. two Stonehorns against the spread of popular armies, and if there are options I'm missing to do with leftover points and still add a credible Threat.

[Mohojoe]

I unfortunately don't have the experience to really chime in much on your list but it was really good to read through your thoughts behind the list. Very thought provoking for me as a destruction player. Thanks

[Gauche]

Glad I could help someone while trying to help myself. I typically work through List issues by posting them, just always worked for me.

Ultimately I may just have to playtest it, right now I'm working off of the following (for anyone interested in following/injecting to my through process).

Frostlord on Stonehorn

Frostlord on Stonehorn w/ Battle Brew

Savage Orc Big Boss w/ Talisman of Protection

Maniak Weirdnob

10x Savage Orruks

40x Savage Orruk Arrow Boys (General - Bellowing Tyrant)

20x Moonclan Grots w/ Spears/Shields, 3x Netters

20x Moonclan Grots w/ Spears/Shields, 3x Netters

1x Fanatic

1x Fanatic

1x Kunnin' Rukk

1980/2000

 

The alternative to the Stonehorn is a Moonclan Shaman, Huskard on Tusk, and 80 Points leftover for....nothing of value. Thundertusk has an amazing Shooting attack but the Healing is unreliable with just one, which is part of its cost. I think having a whole additional Stonehorn is significantly better than one with a 2+ Save (Spell can fail) and a 50/50 d3 Heal. I even still have points to have a go at a Triumph, all of which are great on a Stonehorn. Two Stonehorns also gives me way more Scenario presence, another tarpit, and another fighter.

[Thanatos Ares]

Solid list buddy. I'd probably make the non battlebrew stonelord the guv'nor and keep him near the Arrerboys thus freeing the battlebrew stonelord to go do his thing. This way it also gives your opponent something to think about as getting near to your Arrerboys means inviting a stonelord charge


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[Turragor]

3 hours ago, Thanatos Ares said:

Solid list buddy. I'd probably make the non battlebrew stonelord the guv'nor and keep him near the Arrerboys thus freeing the battlebrew stonelord to go do his thing. This way it also gives your opponent something to think about as getting near to your Arrerboys means inviting a stonelord charge


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It'd force the charge wouldn't it? So the opponent could decide that.

[Geoff Ozzy]

Great write up and I think I'm definitely in the same boat in terms of list development.  I wan't to have some fast moving threats and also maintain the strength of the kunnin-rukk.

I think your list sounds more refined/max-min'd then mine.  But I'm running a double flanking assault threat force with kunnin-rukk up the middle with screening which sounds somewhat like what you're talking about.  My list is:

On the right flank:

-Warboss on MawCrusher (BattleBrew)

-Gargant Giant 

-Gargant Giant

On the Left Flank:

-Stonehorn Beastrider

Up the Middle:

-10 Savage Orruks

-10 Savage Orruks

-10 Savage Orruks

-30 Arrowboys (General - Bellowing Tyrant)

-Savage Big Boss (Talisman of Protection)

2000 points right on the nose.

 

[Gauche]

9 hours ago, Thanatos Ares said:

Solid list buddy. I'd probably make the non battlebrew stonelord the guv'nor and keep him near the Arrerboys thus freeing the battlebrew stonelord to go do his thing. This way it also gives your opponent something to think about as getting near to your Arrerboys means inviting a stonelord charge


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The issue with this is I don't see an advantage to it. As is I will always have Bellowing Tyrant via the Champion, he will always be the last to die and chewing through 80 Wounds with Inspiring Presence is a chore. The Stonehorn Command Ability isn't bad, let's him or his pal get in reliably, but it forces me to keep him back and counter-punch only, which my opponent will see coming.

Having the two free to run around means I can threaten to get stuck in offensively or defensively, it also opens up my Scenario game a lot more which was a big reason to take the Stonehorns over the Stonehorn + Thundertusk. Without the pair I think this list has a big problem in Scenarios, particularly Three Places of Power and Gift from the Heavens.