Tzaangor mixed unit

[Matt H]

Looking at the warscroll it looks like tzaangor can have mixed weapons, i.e. Savage blade with shield or paired savage blade. Does anybody know how this will work? As it reads, as long as you have one gor with a shield you get the 6+ save for the unit.

I sincerely hope this isn't the case and someone can point to how this should work, otherwise people will have just one guy in a unit sitting at the back with a shield.

 

Cheers!

[Matt H]

Ok so you can only make as many saves as you have shields - any fails mean you remove a shield model?

That makes sense, thanks!

[BaldoBeardo]

Mechanically, wounds are resolved from the damage pool individually. So you roll a shield save, see if he lives, roll again, etc. etc
Obvs, this will take a lot of time. So what you do instead, using your example -
You have 12 wounds to allocate, and 10 models with shields.
So you roll 10 dice, as if everything you roll is a fail, all 10 of your shield guys will die.

You roll the 10 dice, and fail 8 saves. You remove 8 guys with shields.
You still have two wounds to allocate, and you have two guys with shields. So you roll two dice.

If you had 14 wounds to allocate, then you'd roll the two dice. 1 fails, so 1 shield carrier dies.
That leaves 2 wounds to allocate to 1 shield guy, at which point you roll separately.
(It may seem like block rolling here would still work, but in effect it increases the chance of absorbing a wound, so the sportsmanlike thing to do is one at a time).



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[MrThoth]

I just wanted to ask a bit more on this, as I am a bit confused.  Lets say I have a unit with 10 shields in it, and it takes 12 wounds.  Can I only roll the shield save for 10 of those (and any failures of those must be the shield guys being removed from the unit), and the other two wounds have to come from the remainder of the unit, without being able to select a shield bearer?

This is all instead of just saying one guys with a shield is going to take all 12 wounds, rolling for his saves, and then whatever goes through, take those models out, starting with him.

[Screwface]

6 minutes ago, BaldoBeardo said:

To be really very clear, if you don't roll a shield 'save', someone without a shield dies.
If you do roll a shield save and fail, then a model with a shield has to die.

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This.

[Screwface]

25 minutes ago, Kramer said:

yes of course, but that his question stated that he would be assigning wounds to the shield models  But you are totally right

Ah ok, I see what you mean. In the OP's scenario he's definitely going to allocate wounds to shield-models first before any others. 

[BaldoBeardo]

To be really very clear, if you don't roll a shield 'save', someone without a shield dies.
If you do roll a shield save and fail, then a model with a shield has to die.

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[Kramer]

9 hours ago, Screwface said:

I don't think this is the case strictly speaking. I mean, most will probably allocate wounds to shield-models first, but if for some reason you wanted to allocate a wound to a non-shield model before a shield model you'd be free to do so. Like if you wanted to remove some non-shield models to cause an enemy unit to be outside of pile-in range in a multi-unit combat.

yes of course, but that his question stated that he would be assigning wounds to the shield models  But you are totally right

[Screwface]

4 hours ago, Kramer said:

yes and you keep rolling for those wounds until all the shield guys are dead. Anything after that you start allocating to the other guys. Does this help?

I don't think this is the case strictly speaking. I mean, most will probably allocate wounds to shield-models first, but if for some reason you wanted to allocate a wound to a non-shield model before a shield model you'd be free to do so. Like if you wanted to remove some non-shield models to cause an enemy unit to be outside of pile-in range in a multi-unit combat.

[Kramer]

14 minutes ago, Matt H said:

Ok so you can only make as many saves as you have shields - any fails mean you remove a shield model?

That makes sense, thanks!

yes and you keep rolling for those wounds until all the shield guys are dead. Anything after that you start allocating to the other guys. Does this help?

[NoTurtlesAllowed]

The rule specifies you make the roll before allocating the wound to a model equipped with a shield. No conflict here. If you make the roll and fail, you have to remove the shield model

[Matt H]

The new scroll allows paired weapons and 1 hw + shield in the same unit.

[Arkiham]

12 minutes ago, Matt H said:

I understand how that bit works, but the unit allows mixed shield and paired weapons. It's the shield's 6+ save that is causing the problem.

That's only if you go 1hw an shield. 

[Matt H]

I understand how that bit works, but the unit allows mixed shield and paired weapons. It's the shield's 6+ save that is causing the problem.

[Arkiham]

What happens is this. 

You equip the unit with a load out , so let's say 2 hand weapons, you then equipment those allowed with the special weapons with them (if they can have them)

They all have the bonus for the 2 hand weapons, ( including the unit champion if there is one) and any equipped with these special weapons. 

 

Once enough models die, and it's only the special weapon guys left, they loose that bonus from the 2 hand weapons. 

Standard bearers and musicians count as having the same load out as the rest of the unit. 

[Matt H]

But my understanding is that you allocate wounds to the unit as a whole, then pick which models to remove?

[BaldoBeardo]

No, no you don't. The rules for the shields are when you allocate wounds to a specific model.
No conflict/issue at all, no benefit passed on to other models.

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