Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[Killax]

Im just a huge fan of any speed increaser, with things like Gore Pilgrims also being fantastic in a meta that isn't out to hunt down characters asap or simply eat away at armour. The prime reason why I like Murderhost so much is the speed vs the cost. Even a single turn of 'free movement' can be all it thakes to go from a semi competitive build to a competitive build.

In most cases for a Juggerlord I'd pick Gorecleaver btw, the Juggerlord for me is less likely to actually see melee fast. Which isn't the case for a Mighty Lord of Khorne if I thake one and I don't always do so. 

[kozokus]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

In most cases for a Juggerlord I'd pick Gorecleaver btw, the Juggerlord for me is less likely to actually see melee fast. Which isn't the case for a Mighty Lord of Khorne if I thake one and I don't always do so. 

There is few raison to take the MLoK outsite of a Goretide

Btw, what is your usual set of heroes (let's say you have 6 slots)?

[Killax]

50 minutes ago, kozokus said:

There is few raison to take the MLoK outsite of a Goretide

Btw, what is your usual set of heroes (let's say you have 6 slots)?

Well Bloodreaver hordes will still really like the MLoK I think. I just dont own enough to test it. Though in general I do like the MLoK as a one-of in most armies that have a functional worth for it. For the Hero set I usally end up with:

Minimum:
2 Bloodsecrators
1 Bloodstoker
Others:
+1 Bloodsecrator
Valkia (for the Goretide)
MLoK (for the Goretide)
Juggerlord 
Exalted Deathbringer (for Slaughterborn Battalion)
2-3 Slaughterpriests (for Gore Pilgrims)
Skullmaster (for Murderhost)
Skulltaker (for Murderhost)
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (for Murderhost fun or Blood Hunt)
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage

While I do technically own some more models to do some different things for heroes this is what does see play in it's current undercoated form  I've also considered and played around with 2 Bloodstokers in the past but due to Murderhost and Goretide I've found more fun in running another beaty Hero. All in all they don't do a terrible lot but I don't feel they are designed that way anyway. The real Khorne musscle that shows is Bloodletters, Blood Warriors, Skullreapers and if you own enough for Brass Stampede the Skullcrushers (which I dont own 7 units of).

I'm still looking forward to the Khorne Lord on Dragon, maby, just maby, FW will decide that Khorne can have a really Archaon style-like monster. I guess that Archaon can also be technically added to the above list but I don't have him either nor feel inclined to pick him up any time soon.

What Im currently working on though is Bloodcrushers for 40K. Where they really dont have much to do in AoS I love them for 40K!

Cheers,

[Paul Conti]

12 hours ago, kozokus said:

well, i have a different feeking. Once i paid for the goretide part, (MLoK, EDB, 30 warriors and 10 Reapers), i feel i need at least one Bloodsecrator. 

Then, when choosing the rest, i am very reluctant to pay for a bataillon that do not cheat with the movement phase.

I mean, in competitive play, what are the values of non goretide bataillon? Most of them only add something if you are already in contact, something you may have trouble getting in the first place.

Gore Pilgrims is where it's at as a suppliment. It extends the range of the Bloodsecrator, makes the Slaughterpreists more reliable, and their prayrs add extra punch to the Goretide

[kozokus]

20 hours ago, Killax said:

Minimum:
2 Bloodsecrators
1 Bloodstoker

I am quite curious regarding Bloodscecrators, how does it goes for you?

• Seeing that there is 2-3 of them, does your opponent try to kill them?
• If he tries, does he suceed to kill some of them and how many?
• Does he ignore them?
• If tommorow (/today?) Bleedsecrators don't stack, would you still field 2-3 of them?

14 hours ago, Paul Conti said:

Gore Pilgrims is where it's at as a suppliment. It extends the range of the Bloodsecrator, makes the Slaughterpreists more reliable, and their prayrs add extra punch to the Goretide

Yes, but do we need that? Having extra bloodsecrators makes up for the range, slaughterpriests, even 50% more reliable, still have 25% chance of doing nothing. two of his prayers needs the ennemy to be in 16" range, something the ennemy can manage. +1 to hit needs you to be in contact, something you can struggle to do.

On the other hand, the Stocker never fail his power and helps you to be in contact.

Subsidiary question : does the Aspiring Deathbringer comand ability stack if you blood tithe it multiple times?

[Paul Conti]

7 hours ago, kozokus said:

I am quite curious regarding Bloodscecrators, how does it goes for you?

• Seeing that there is 2-3 of them, does your opponent try to kill them?
• If he tries, does he suceed to kill some of them and how many?
• Does he ignore them?
• If tommorow (/today?) Bleedsecrators don't stack, would you still field 2-3 of them?

Yes, but do we need that? Having extra bloodsecrators makes up for the range, slaughterpriests, even 50% more reliable, still have 25% chance of doing nothing. two of his prayers needs the ennemy to be in 16" range, something the ennemy can manage. +1 to hit needs you to be in contact, something you can struggle to do.

On the other hand, the Stocker never fail his power and helps you to be in contact.

Subsidiary question : does the Aspiring Deathbringer comand ability stack if you blood tithe it multiple times?

I don't think the Aspiring Deathbringer would stack with the Tithe ability. However, if you have multiple deathbringers, I think it does.

If you run Goretide + Gorepilgrims you have room for 1 more hero in a 2000pt army to squeeze in a Blood Stoker. 

On the Slaughterpriests, a 75% cast chance is actually pretty good, especially since it can't be unbound. Currently the rule of 1 doesn't apply to prayers, so Killing Frenzy stacks.  So stack up 2 Killing Frenzies on a unit of Skullreapers, Stoke them, and have good odds of getting them across into combat top of Turn 1.

[Killax]

9 hours ago, kozokus said:

Khorne Heroes

I am quite curious regarding Bloodscecrators, how does it goes for you?

• Seeing that there is 2-3 of them, does your opponent try to kill them?
• If he tries, does he suceed to kill some of them and how many?
• Does he ignore them?
• If tommorow (/today?) Bleedsecrators don't stack, would you still field 2-3 of them?

Gore Pilgrims

Yes, but do we need that? Having extra bloodsecrators makes up for the range, slaughterpriests, even 50% more reliable, still have 25% chance of doing nothing. two of his prayers needs the ennemy to be in 16" range, something the ennemy can manage. +1 to hit needs you to be in contact, something you can struggle to do.

On the other hand, the Stocker never fail his power and helps you to be in contact.

Subsidiary question : does the Aspiring Deathbringer comand ability stack if you blood tithe it multiple times?

I decided to split up the quote to give some feedback on both topics. In regards to the Khorne Heroes, as with our units, the Bloodsecrators and my general Khorne army does well locally. I have to say it does that because there is currently no Kunning Rukk player here and general other players I know in the area have mixed armies, for those games I also always bring mixed armies. With this I mean that there is no significant spam of single type units going on, though 'spamming units' is something I do do but that's much more because its a large part of Khorne armies in general. 

With the 2-3 Bloodsecrator set up my opponent sometimes tries to kill them. Not all opponents can do so however and if I place at least one of the Bloodsecrators well enough I shouldn't be able to lose them all. However my opponent mosr certainly always tries if he can, which I don't blame him for. The rules of AoS are set up in such a way that Hero-sniping is not only easy it's also a key strategy to win any AoS game.

In many cases 1-2 are killed, throughout the battle I have also lost them all at some point but the advantage here was that my Bloodletter and Blood Warrior units arived undamaged which causes all the more carnage regardless in melee. They are always a key Hero target. If Generals Handbook 2017 would prefent them from stacking I'd still run with 2-3. The prime reason for this is that Khorne doesn't have any amazing alternatives anyway. Mighty Lords of Khorne and Wrathmongers for example serve compairable purposes. The Bloodthirsters are viable monsters but in general the large ammount of Khorne Heroes is what I'd call Tier 3-2, good but not game bending.
- In that same regard however what is good and potentially game bending is blocks of Bloodletters and units of Skullreapers, this part to me for Khorne is Tier 1, along with the Bloodsecrator. To which Bloodstokers, Blood Warriors and Wrathmongers can be added to what I'd call Tier 1.5. Most other stuff floats around Tier 2-3, I only view Bloodcrushers and Skullgrinders as lower Tier, knowing they have some fans but to me they are simply always outshined by the alternatives.

Gore Pilgrims to me is pure fun and fantastic if you are not up against ranged heavy armies. The CA of the ED stacks as far as I know, though typically another guy is the General so I usually only use the ability sometimes.

[kozokus]

Thanks for your (blood-soaked) answers, that was everything i needed.

There will be a 2K tournament soon for me and I think Khorne is going to be my choice. (still theorycrafting) Trying different builds.

 

I am a little bit sad they didn't reworked the Exalted Deathbringer, that is a model i really wanted to see on the table.

[Paul Conti]

6 hours ago, kozokus said:

Thanks for your (blood-soaked) answers, that was everything i needed.

There will be a 2K tournament soon for me and I think Khorne is going to be my choice. (still theorycrafting) Trying different builds.

 

I am a little bit sad they didn't reworked the Exalted Deathbringer, that is a model i really wanted to see on the table.

Exalted Drathbringer with a Ruinous Axe and Mark of the Destroyer hanging out near your General seems pretty fun. And pretty decent. Bloodesecrator gets him up to 12 attacks 4+/3+/-1/2. Not bad for 100 points.

[Tubs]

On 22/07/2017 at 1:27 AM, Paul Conti said:

Exalted Drathbringer with a Ruinous Axe and Mark of the Destroyer hanging out near your General seems pretty fun. And pretty decent. Bloodesecrator gets him up to 12 attacks 4+/3+/-1/2. Not bad for 100 points.

I was thinking a similar thing to put abit of extra rend into my 2k list. What's everyone's thoughts? Deathbringer with Impaling spear and Gorecleaver artifact 5A base 7A near the general 3+/3+/-2/1 6s on Wound rolls causing mortals, 50/50 chance of mortals on heros after attacks have been made for 80 points and a Artifact spot 

[Tubs]

On 22/07/2017 at 1:27 AM, Paul Conti said:

 

[Killax]

On 24-7-2017 at 11:45 AM, Tubs said:

I was thinking a similar thing to put abit of extra rend into my 2k list. What's everyone's thoughts? Deathbringer with Impaling spear and Gorecleaver artifact 5A base 7A near the general 3+/3+/-2/1 6s on Wound rolls causing mortals, 50/50 chance of mortals on heros after attacks have been made for 80 points and a Artifact spot 

I like the Impaling Spear guy a lot with Gorecleaver and a lot more with Slaughterborn/Goretide battalion. It really makes him a nice bodyguard model that even on oppossing turns can make an impact, which is nice because we don't see that type of design in AoS all too often. 

Certainly go for that fellow! In game though the differences between them all arn't too massive. It's a bunch of attacks, you hope some hit etc. 

[Jharen]

So with the upcoming allies addition to list building we're being opened up for a lot more possibilities in our Khorne Armies.  While we don't know exactly which allegiances we can ally with yet, it's pretty easy to guess.  What is everyone looking forward to putting in their Blades of Khorne list that they couldn't before?  Sayl is probably going to be making a return to the table for many peoples competitive list for obvious reasons, but what else?

I have a bunch of chaos warhounds sitting around I'll be toying with for sure.   They're pretty cheap and fast and I just like the idea of packs of warhounds in an army from a flavor standpoint.  Beastmen could work well in a Khorne list too for some added mobility to close the gap while your Khorne forces come in behind them.   Varanguard could also be in a good place if they have gotten a points adjustment.  Skaven seem a good option, though I suspect we may be limited to which clans we're able to ally with (if any).

[Killax]

Sayl is probably the prime inclusion indeed, frankly speaking I still hope they will change him, altough it is unlikely. 

Warhounds are a very cool idea, other than that I really dont know what Id add, boring as it sounds Im actually quite happy with the way Khorne works out now and the way we have (in my opinion) 3 very valid Battalions to play competitive games with. 

Overall I think the biggest impact is that you can run more of stuff you visually really like  

[Xasz]

Sadly, there is no puke-smiley.

[Render]

For Allies, I'm toying with the idea of some Slaaneshi units. 

- Hellstriders for the -1 to hit within 6." The 16" move and +1 run/charge should help position them properly to get this into effect.

- Seekers for the crazy movement (14," run and charge in same turn, 2D6 for running). Could be a good harassment unit.

I don't have the models yet. Probably will wait for the new release but definitely intrigued by these options.

[Jharen]

5 hours ago, Killax said:

Sayl is probably the prime inclusion indeed, frankly speaking I still hope they will change him, altough it is unlikely. 

Yeah I'm of the same mind on Sayl.  He needs changes.

It's possible, and would make a lot of sense, that one of the Khorne ally restrictions could turn out to be "no wizards".  We'll just have to wait and see.

[Xasz]

They seem to aim for a rather strict system (pointwise and alliancewise), which is great in my opinion, as it might protect us from what 40k had become the last couple editions.

Skaven will probably only be able to ally with other skaven and I wouldn't be surprised if they limit the interaction between god-specific armies as well. (like Jharen mentioned)

EDIT: After reading the article another time, I've got the feeling that we won't be able to ally major chaos factions with each other. As this doesn't seem to be the intention of allies. More like Khorne (or another major faction) can ally with Everchosen,  Monsters of Chaos...

I guess it's time to wait and drink tea... seems like the GHB 2017 is going to change more than people anticipated at first.

 

[Killax]

Well certainly have to wait and see. I dont think AoS would ever reach the 40K point of 7th though, too much Keyword specific synergy is allready build into the game for that. As in, play Khorne, play Bloodsecrators. If you want a whole other slew of units, the reason to play Khorne at all really deminishes. Back in 7th 40K there where no Keywords and only straight up area of effect bonusses, making the mix of the best with the best the insane. 

@Jharen that would make a lot of sence from my perspective though at the same time Wizards can summon Bloodletters and the like so I think that road can really go both ways. I have a feeling that GW still puts the emphasis on Khorne disliking Wizards, deeming them cowards and such but like the 40K variant (and I feel it gets mixed up sometimes) it isn't like Khorne's followers are active 'witch hunters'.
Deeming something weak and unworthy in Khorne's case to me always mend that Khorne basically thinks of wizards as "morally wrong" though somehow I do feel he respects their power because else a Collar of Khorne would never have been created...

[Jharen]

Didn't mean to imply that Khorne is some sort of witch hunter at all.  He feels that wizards who sit back in safety from the battle and fling spells or play mind games with others do the art of battle and war no true 'honor'.  Look at his own priests who are capable of boiling blood from a distance, yet they risk upsetting him if they don't engage in combat.  Their other ability aids in the closing of forces into combat.  He doesn't mind magic that aids efforts of melee combat either (as is evident by the use of artifacts and gifts he supplies his own followers).  In that respects, I'm such he finds Sayl's use of magic to fling his Bloodletter daemons 18 inches across the battlefields into the faces of their opponents quite an appropriate use of magic.

Why I could see them preventing wizards in a BoK army is that a BoK army (in my opinion) is a zealot force of devout Khorne followers who perhaps see it as tainting their 'worship' of Khorne on the battlefield if they were to march to battle alongside wizards.  But I can also see many situations where that wouldn't be the case too, so I'm game for whatever.  From a game balance standpoint I think it helps make a stronger divide between armies though and they may want to use that.

Anyhow, rabbit hole of fluff aside...

I just hate to see Sayl on the table because it's one of those units that is just there because it has to be there, because it CAN be there.  We already have a unit that is very much a 'must take' for every BoK list (Bloodsecrator), and I'm not too keen to the idea of another one being added to our list of 'must haves' due to the ally rule and a bad warscroll.

I will state that I own Sayl. I've used him. Neither me nor my regular opponents found him to be a fun addition to our games.  He been banished to the dark abyss that is my storage boxes for quite some time now.

 

[Killax]

Same here in regards to Sayl. I mean getting him isn´t the problem, my problem is how it´s a piece that breaks the boundries of what stuff usually does by such a large stretch that it feels like it shouldn´t be part of AoS at all. However if the allied stuff works out the way I think it will he can become part of Khorne armies all to easily aswell. Unless offcourse the GH2017 specifically states that older Alliance abilities work out differently.
Well wait and see, Im looking forward to it but at the same time hope that the way it is written is clear enough. The way they handled Khul left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth ;).

[Fireymonkeyboy]

Got in a game with a couple of new (for me) units, Skullcrushers and a Demon Prince, one at 1500, and one a path to glory.  SCs seemed solid, but didn't hit quite as hard as I expected on the charge (unit of 3 with glaives).  Also durable, but caved to mass attacks.  DP added some much needed mobility, and was a bit of a glass cannon - super killy, but went down under massed fire from flamers and horrors.

Also got to try out the whole Blood tithe thing.  The tier 3 ability (the move / charge one) was super useful.  Nearly won me the big game, and was critical to winning the PtG one.  Can also see building around the first ability (some good command options available), and the second can save your bacon.

Any tips on getting the most out of Skullcrushers, and is anyone else on the Path to Glory?

FMB

[Nico]

I actually wrote a list with the Blood Hunt in it yesterday (and the near obligatory Gore Pilgrims). It had 9 Bloodcrushers in it. I liked the thought of the 2D6 move and the run and charge with Mr Whippy. It also gives a way to get the WoK Billy into range for whip attack and charging turn one. 

Is this a terrible idea?

[Jharen]

On 8/3/2017 at 9:39 PM, Fireymonkeyboy said:

Any tips on getting the most out of Skullcrushers, and is anyone else on the Path to Glory?

A single unit of 3 Skullcrushers is usually going to be lackluster in its damage output.  Too much room for a complete failure on all rolls.

At minimum I find you'll want to either run a unit of 6 or 2 units of 3.

To get the most out of Skullcrushers is always going to come down to running a Brass Stampede battalion.  This battalion is a game changer for them and takes them into an entirely new level of reliable damage output and threat range.  I usually run one alongside a Gore Pilgrim battalion as a unit of 6x glaives and 2 units of 3x axes plus a Lord on Jugger.  This allow you to run units in pairs and do double up on charging units to maximize mortal wound output.  The 6x strong unit I usually keep buffed with either killing frenzy or Bronzed Flesh depending on the situation.  Maximizing the footprint of all the units is also a very important part of my usual strategy, as I can use them to block off entire sections of the table quite easily.

Maxing out a Brass Stampede battalion is also a very solid option imo, though you're really committing to the Skullcrusher at this point due to the required model count and point cost required.

[Arkiham]

I ran a maxed brass stampede other week.

Didn't do too well against kunnin ruk, i didnt get as many charges in as i hoped and his rolls were nuts..

But I feel it's a solid list and not something many people will expect to see, I could have deployed so much better tbf , the Gore pilgrims is so helpful to skullcrushers, for a unit of 3 you add an addtional skullcrusher+rider worth of attacks.

 

It's definately a list I'll be running again There's fair few lists which it feels a strong match up due to mortal wounds

It's a good battalion also as it's always active and can give you a incredible +4 to charge range with horns from the crushers.

Blood tithe is a bit useless I felt though, with heal/ meteor. being the only ones I wanted