hakoMike Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I'm sure many of you knew that GW's implementation of "Chaos" as a faction, including the 8 pointed star sigil, is a huge part of Michael Moorcock's high fantasy "Eternal Champion" stories written from the 60's onward. What I would like to discuss is how AoS has stepped away from its Tolkien inspired world into more of a Moorcock style multiverse. The mortal realms, both connected and distinct, strike me as kin to Moorcock's multiverse. For simplicity, let's call it "EC" (Eternal Champion.) Things from EC that would seem right at home in AoS: 1. Castle Kaneloon, existing at the edge of a sea of pure chaos. A mortal champion stepping into it creates vast new lands and pushes back the shore of chaos further. 2. The Empire of Melnibone, a race of not-quite-humans (sort of dark elf-ish) in decline for a millennium. They serve Chaos. It's most famous citizen is the albino emperor Elric, who wields the Runeblade Stormbringer, itself an artifact of chaos. 3. Eternal Tanelorn, a city that exists simultaneously in all universes (although getting there seems to be something of a quest.) It is a refuge for those weary of the battle between Law and Chaos, but is likewise always in danger from them. 4. The Vanishing Tower, a structure that remains geographically consistent but shifts between the dimensions of the multiverse at intervals. The only way to enter is to wait for it to appear and then rush in before it moves on. I'd love to hear some other thoughts on this. I'm not deeply intimate with the AoS lore yet, so anything compare/contrast between EC/AoS is welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I'd take it one step further: Games Workshop has been strongly influenced by Moorcock as a whole, since the very beginning. While AoS is a step closer to Moorcock, WHFB also took a lot of inspiration from that same source. Tolkien is a much more Manichean cosmos, where the good are good, the bad are bad, and you can't ultimately escape the consequences of your actions. In a Moorcockian universe - like all of GW's - the evil that wants to destroy everything isn't perfectly identified with malice of all kinds. Therefore, you can have pretty evil dudes who are still technically on the "good" side. The idea of Chaos as the enemy rather than an entity that is somehow "evil" is also very Moorcockian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakoMike Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, ElectricPaladin said: I'd take it one step further: Games Workshop has been strongly influenced by Moorcock as a whole, since the very beginning. While AoS is a step closer to Moorcock, WHFB also took a lot of inspiration from that same source. Tolkien is a much more Manichean cosmos, where the good are good, the bad are bad, and you can't ultimately escape the consequences of your actions. In a Moorcockian universe - like all of GW's - the evil that wants to destroy everything isn't perfectly identified with malice of all kinds. Therefore, you can have pretty evil dudes who are still technically on the "good" side. The idea of Chaos as the enemy rather than an entity that is somehow "evil" is also very Moorcockian. Well put. I was going more for geography and racial makeup with I called it Tolkien inspired. The Mortal Realms don't look like Middle Earth in the same way the Old World did. You definitely hit the nail on the head regarding good/evil as more complex constructs. The closest thing Moorcock seemed to define as evil would be trying to tip the balance too far in either direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHHaunts Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 1 hour ago, hakoMike said: Well put. I was going more for geography and racial makeup with I called it Tolkien inspired. The Mortal Realms don't look like Middle Earth in the same way the Old World did. You definitely hit the nail on the head regarding good/evil as more complex constructs. The closest thing Moorcock seemed to define as evil would be trying to tip the balance too far in either direction. Well thats just it. The aesthetic and purpose makeup (etc) of chaos is the same as always in that its been similar to Moorcock. That hasent changed in AOS as Chaos IMO dosent really have many ties to tolkiens universe at all (Many. not none) But like you say the setting is more in line. I was never overly familiar with Moorcock it was actually only when someone made the comparison many years ago and funnily enough people pointed out that the setting wasent the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Fun fact I just posted my summary of the pantheon short story and a constant poster in my lore thread said the story reminds them of Moorcock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunel.Richard Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 One thing that AoS hasn't played on much, but that i would like to see, is that balance between chaos and order is best for mortals. Too much of either makes the lives of normal people miserable. Moorcock's Eternal Champion is always striving to create balance between the two where/whenever she/he/it turns up. Sometimes the EC is an agent of chaos, sometimes of order. AoS seems to be far more cut and dry than Moorcock's universe in that chaos is evil and order is good (though it hasn't mentioned order as a things AFIK) at the moment, so in AoS I'd love to see Sigmar and his pantheon of super friends (Nagash, Grungi, Malerion, GorkaMorka etc) being depicted as totalitarian monarchs going too far in their leanings towards order. Both extremes could be seen as evil or bad and the poor mortals would be caught in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wilson Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 As a side note how good were the GW Eternal Champions miniatures in the mid 80's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakoMike Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 8 hours ago, Marc Wilson said: As a side note how good were the GW Eternal Champions miniatures in the mid 80's! http://solegends.com/citec/index.htm Pretty mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 1 hour ago, hakoMike said: http://solegends.com/citec/index.htm Pretty mediocre. I think they're awesome, in a retro sort of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakoMike Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 1 hour ago, ElectricPaladin said: I think they're awesome, in a retro sort of way. Okay, yeah. They are kind of cool but (for me anyway) more or less completely fail to capture the source material. It's interesting that the Melnibonean designs became High Elves for whfb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callimaco Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 The more I read about AoS, the more I am reminded of Poul Anderson's Law vs Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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