Cinncinnatus Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 So with the Swifthawk Agents gaining Reavers, I started to wonder if this subfaction just became a real alpha strike threat. With their movement and a couple of Swifthawk Pennants I think this faction could make some noise. For your consideration I submit the following...(note I'm using the points that showed up on the app today once Reavers moved to Swifthawk) 10 Reavers 320 Battleline 10 Reavers 320 Battleline 10 Reavers 320 Battleline 10 Reavers 320 Battleline 1 Skywarden 160 Swifthawk Pennant, General 1 Skywarden 160 Swifthawk Pennant 1 Skywarden 160 Swifthawk Pennant 1 Skywarden 160 Swifthawk Pennant The idea behind the list is to move forward with the Reavers aggressively, taking advantage of 14 inch move. Make sure that at least 2 Skywardens with the Pennants cover each Reaver unit. Now the Reavers, while still hitting on 4+, are wounding on 2+, as the Totem can stack as I'm reading it. With their 3 shoots per model, that is deadly. On average dice you are eliminating a Huskard with two units of Reavers. You could conceivably pop the Arrow Bows of a Kunnin' Ruk if you directed all the shots at them. Plus, The Reavers special rules allow them to move again after they shoot! (you can also move before, but I see that as more useful if you are really committing to try to get a charge off after). By no means do I think this is truly competitive, and lack of rend will be a huge problem. But the volume of shots you can unleash, and with such a large threat window, I think you can make your opponents real nervous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 If you are willing to keep them in a tighter bubble, you could get more mileage out of running only 2 Skywardens and a Hurricanum instead of the the other two. That would move you down to 3+/2+ on those 120 shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinncinnatus Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 That is a really good point! The Reavers appear to be native battleline as well. My biggest concern with that though would be the speed and range of the Hurricanum. You'd lose out on a lot of maneuverability with that set up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 8 minutes ago, Cinncinnatus said: That is a really good point! The Reavers appear to be native battleline as well. My biggest concern with that though would be the speed and range of the Hurricanum. You'd lose out on a lot of maneuverability with that set up... You absolutely would but you would gain a spell caster and a source of mortal wounds. You'd need to drop the Hurricanum last and you'd want to start it on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinncinnatus Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 These are good points. Having a Mystic Shield to throw around would do wonders. Of course, you might be creating a self-fulfilling prophecy, as you now need to cast Mystic Shield on the Skywardens since you no longer have redundancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 That said, more realistically, you could drop 20 reavers and 2 Skywardens (960 points) as half of a 2000 point army. This would cover half of your battleline and be fantastic artillery for a more standard core force with the other half of your points. I could see something like a Phoenix temple force, or even just a standard HE force (40 spearmen, Seahelm on foot, Khorhil, etc), as a compliment to this. For example, you could run in a 2000 point game: 10 Reavers (320) [Battleline] 5 Reavers (160) [Battleline] 5 Reavers (160) [Battleline] Skywarden (160) [Swifthawk Pennant] Skywarden (160) [Swifthawk Pennant] Flamespyre Phoenix with Anointed (280) [General] Frostheart Phoenix (260) 10 Phoenix Guard (200) 10 Phoenix Guard (200) Spyreheart Warhost (100) While not a top tier force (too low model count, no casters, etc), it could be a fun force that is thematically unified and still be able to throw down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Alternatively, you could run in a 2000 point game: 10 Reavers (320) [Battleline] 5 Reavers (160) [Battleline] 5 Reavers (160) [Battleline] Skywarden (160) [Swifthawk Pennant] Skywarden (160) [Swifthawk Pennant] Dragonlord (400) [General with Horn] 5 Dragonblades (160) 5 Dragonblades (160) Dragonlord Host (80) 30 High Elf Spearmen (240) or 20 Spireguard (if they are indeed misscosted, and are actually 120 each). This would be a nice high mobility force with both bodies, ranged attack and punchiness. The Skywardens could be modeled using some type of flying dragon/drake instead of hawks and you could have a uniform dragon aesthetic. this would look pretty sweet imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinncinnatus Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 Interesting lists. I'd make a few changes to the Phoenix Temple list 10 Reavers (320) [Battleline] 5 Reavers (160) [Battleline] 5 Reavers (160) [Battleline] Skywarden (160) [Swifthawk Pennant] Skywarden (160) [Swifthawk Pennant] Flamespyre Phoenix with Anointed (280) [General] Frostheart Phoenix with Anointed (260) 20 Phoenix Guard (400) Loremaster (100) I'm not a huge fan of the Spyreheart Warhost. Limiting yourself to one Phoenix with a 4++ is a big ask for a 50% chance at D3. The Loremaster comes along so the Frostheart and Flamespyre can potentially get a boost to their armor save with Attuned to Magic, meaning the Loremaster can effectively cast Mystic Shield three times at once! Plus Hand of Glory is awesome with Monsters, so there's that. I really like the Order Draconis list! I'd use that one as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Agreed. I'd love to fit Teclis into that hybrid Phoenix Temple list for the super buffing to the Phoenixes, although I don't see an easy way to pull it off without losing one of the Phoenix :-/ Alternatively, if one wanted to do a more pure Swifthawk force, here is what I've just put together (still assuming that the actual Spireguard points are 120 and not that asinine 200 points): 10 Reavers (320) [Battleline] 5 Reavers (160) [Battleline] 5 Reavers (160) [Battleline] Skywarden (160) [Swifthawk Pennant] Skywarden (160) [Swifthawk Pennant] 30 Spireguard (360) High Warden (220) [General] High Warden (220) 2 Skycutters (240) (3 crew) This is about as good as it gets with this force from a balance perspective. This force puts up 96 shots into the air at 4+/2+ if the Skywardens are well placed. The 2 High Wardens and the 2 Skycutters will need to team up to monster hunt, although you'll want to stay at range with this force for as long as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinncinnatus Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 I like this list! I'd put Legendary Fighter on the General and Quicksilver Potion on the other High Warden so when they finally do enter combat they can effectively attack as a unit. Keeping those Skywardens protected is a must with any of these lists, otherwise all those shooting attacks become pitiful! Luckily they don't count as behemoths so they can benefit from cover! I think these guys would be a fun army to play as and against even if they aren't competitive. They will struggle against destruction the most I think, what with rampaging destroyer. But those buffed attacks will keep enemies honest imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Griffin Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 17 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said: 10 Reavers (320) [Battleline] 5 Reavers (160) [Battleline] 5 Reavers (160) [Battleline] Skywarden (160) [Swifthawk Pennant] Skywarden (160) [Swifthawk Pennant] Dragonlord (400) [General with Horn] 5 Dragonblades (160) 5 Dragonblades (160) Dragonlord Host (80) 30 High Elf Spearmen (240) or 20 Spireguard (if they are indeed misscosted, and are actually 120 each). I may or may not have immediately written this exact list yesterday as soon as I saw the changes in the app. Very cool army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 13 hours ago, Cinncinnatus said: Interesting lists. I'd make a few changes to the Phoenix Temple list 10 Reavers (320) [Battleline] 5 Reavers (160) [Battleline] 5 Reavers (160) [Battleline] Skywarden (160) [Swifthawk Pennant] Skywarden (160) [Swifthawk Pennant] Flamespyre Phoenix with Anointed (280) [General] Frostheart Phoenix with Anointed (260) 20 Phoenix Guard (400) Loremaster (100) I'm not a huge fan of the Spyreheart Warhost. Limiting yourself to one Phoenix with a 4++ is a big ask for a 50% chance at D3. The Loremaster comes along so the Frostheart and Flamespyre can potentially get a boost to their armor save with Attuned to Magic, meaning the Loremaster can effectively cast Mystic Shield three times at once! Plus Hand of Glory is awesome with Monsters, so there's that. Thinking on this list a little bit more, I would probably run something like this: 5 Reavers (160) [Battleline] 5 Reavers (160) [Battleline] 5 Reavers (160) [Battleline] Skywarden (160) [Swifthawk Pennant] Skywarden (160) [Swifthawk Pennant] Frostheart Phoenix with Anointed (260) [General] Frostheart Phoenix with Anointed (260) 20 Phoenix Guard (400) Teclis (200) Chariot (80) This weakens the ranged output of the Reavers but it gives the Reavers a Chariot to screen between them and potential threats (which also benefits from the Skywardens). While losing the potential return of the fire phoenix, the frost hearts actually have stronger attacks. Teclis grants great utility in his unique spell (movement debuff; perfect for a high mobility list) and his three spells per round buffs the Frosthearts save significantly. Alternatively, you could run Alarielle the Radiant in place of Teclis; you would have weaker casting but could significantly increase survivability of the Frosthearts over the course of a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Just now, David Griffin said: I may or may not have immediately written this exact list yesterday as soon as I saw the changes in the app. Very cool army. Great minds think alike ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 It's sweet that there's an alternative to Judicators as Order generic battleline. I might have to paint mine. Thankfully the Blizzard auras don't stack, but the Phoenixes become Mourngul-esque in toughness anyway and are way faster. I'm surprised that they aren't encountered more often. Watch out for Sylvaneth as your magic spamming could also endanger the rest of the army that doesn't have a ward save (Wyldwoods). Also, do you have anything with -2 rend? If not, then Sylvaneth can hard counter this even better with Gnarled Warrior and Oaken Armour - the Ancients (and/or Durthu) will just grind you down and stop you from retreating (normally the hard counter to Kunning Rukk, but very good versus this too). Teclis isn't going to do 12 mortal wounds any time soon before the Sylvaneth cast regrowth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, Nico said: It's sweet that there's an alternative to Judicators as Order generic battleline. I might have to paint mine. Thankfully the Blizzard auras don't stack, but the Phoenixes become Mourngul-esque in toughness anyway and are way faster. I'm surprised that they aren't encountered more often. Watch out for Sylvaneth as your magic spamming could also endanger the rest of the army that doesn't have a ward save (Wyldwoods). Also, do you have anything with -2 rend? If not, then Sylvaneth can hard counter this even better with Gnarled Warrior and Oaken Armour - the Ancients (and/or Durthu) will just grind you down and stop you from retreating (normally the hard counter to Kunning Rukk, but very good versus this too). Teclis isn't going to do 12 mortal wounds any time soon before the Sylvaneth cast regrowth. This definitely isn't top tier list but would at least be a fun list that could throw down, have some fun, and be in theme. You'd have to work a bit harder to make this thing competitive. That said, I think the battalion could be a game changer since it is only 40 points, allows you to bring in an Archmage on Dragon and Swordmasters, and potentially grants the Swiftwing keyword to those units (which allow for the +1 wound stacking). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Quote That said, I think the battalion could be a game changer since it is only 40 points, allows you to bring in an Archmage on Dragon and Swordmasters, and potentially grants the Swiftwing keyword to those units (which allow for the +1 wound stacking). Do you say "potentially" because the text of the battalion isn't available yet (my app doesn't open it)? Even if the Battalion is stamped Swiftwing (or whatever the keyword is) - this will only give that keyword for allegiance purposes, not for buff purposes (this is how Sylvaneth battalions work in particular - as discussed at length). It is possible that the battalion will say "these units gain the Swiftwing keyword" like the Tamurkhan battalion does to the Gigantic Chaos Spawn. Then you could get some decent choppy on that 5+ save Dragon (which does admittedly have a brilliant spell). Stacking the Pennant buff onto wound rolls for pew pew is pretty amazing. That might make a great self-contained 480 point block (one Skywarden and two units of Ellyrian Reavers or vice versa), which you could drop into any order army (or potentially slot in from a sideboard) in order to tick off 2 Battleline Units and also give yourself some over 24 inch effective range pew pew. More fun than Judicator spam at least. Cheap battalions are also good for artefact spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossMHoward Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 56 minutes ago, Nico said: Cheap battalions are also good for artefact spam. I'd probably go for two Quicksilver Potions to maximise the first charges. With the ability to run and charge and also roll 2d6 for their run move, they could isolate and overwhelm key units very easily. A Skywarden with Reckless and two Highwardens with Quicksilver Potion could be formidable. Especially since the Skywarden goes first and if he kills your target, the Highwardens can pile in 6" toward any enemy model. I can see this being hugely tactical, as piling in 6" could either get you into a brand new soft target, or to an awkward position limiting a units potential to pile in toward you. Especially if you can leap two Highwardens to either end of a long unit. They'd lose models in the pile in purely due to the need to maintain coherency. However it's a tactic that probably requires you to play for a double turn, so you can slink away afterwards. Also for Three Places of Power these heroes would make a mockery of weaker Fyreslayers, Sylvaneth, Bonesplittaz and in some cases, Chaos heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 The Quicksilver potion is definitely the go-to choice for Order artefacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immersturm Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 What other (Elven) armies can work well with Swifthawks, you think? We already had Phoenix Order. I quite like the idea of a tough unit to push up the board and hit and run archery to support them. What else? Eldrich Council probably? Would Order Draconis work for a full cav/dragon/fast-stuff army? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastorpaint Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 This is a great discussion! I totally missed the Reavers becoming part of the Swifthawk list... Can anyone point me to a link where I might learn more? I'm assuming this is from the soon-to-be-again-Island-of-Blood or whatever its new name is? Thanks! My two cents: I think Swifthawk lists should be less about piling on buffs and more about movement strategies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossMHoward Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 14 hours ago, pastorpaint said: My two cents: I think Swifthawk lists should be less about piling on buffs and more about movement strategies. I tend to agree. But so many armies have access to fast movement. Especially a board covering army like moonclan. So no matter how quick your are, your units have to be up for a fight at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Quote My two cents: I think Swifthawk lists should be less about piling on buffs and more about movement strategies. Probably true. However, if you can do both, then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miarbi Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Where you see that Reavers are Battleline? Is there an actualization of the profiles already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immersturm Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 If you check the app, add the Reaver warscroll to 'My Battle' and enable profiles, you will see then a regular, non-conditional battle line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Immersturm said: If you check the app, add the Reaver warscroll to 'My Battle' and enable profiles, you will see then a regular, non-conditional battle line. Cool, hopefully they post the warscroll online for those of us who can't run the app. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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