Let's chat Fyreslayers

[Karl]

1 hour ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

yes I though the runeson was also tunnelling. What you're saying is fine I'm happy with that. 

With you now also, no if the runeson tunnels also you couldn't do it, I never thought someone might tunnel a magmadroth. I don't see the point. 

[Gengis137]

I'm playing narrative , and set up a drake in the back of an opponent is the coolest thing I can do


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[Tubs]

What is your opinions on HB Poles or Broadaxes. The broadaxes seem to have a bigger damage output but the guaranteed mortal wounds is also strong. Do we really need the poles if you have slingsheilds and a magmadroth is basically a mortal wound cannon 

 

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

8 minutes ago, Tubs said:

What is your opinions on HB Poles or Broadaxes. The broadaxes seem to have a bigger damage output but the guaranteed mortal wounds is also strong. Do we really need the poles if you have slingsheilds and a magmadroth is basically a mortal wound cannon 

 

They're basically the same damage output tbh. But I prefer the poles for the extra mortal wounds which we need. The sling shields and droths  aren't reliable enough

[wayniac]

Hi all, I am considering a new Order army and Fyreslayers popped up as an option because they don't seem that popular and seem like a good army.  I didn't want to make another thread when this thread is active, so could I get a brief like overview of how they play?  I've been told they are a solid all-around army, not super competitive (I'm not going super-competitive though) but solid, if limited.  For reference purposes I currently play Flesh-Eater Courts and absolutely hate how they play because it's no real punch and just drowning the opponent in dice, which I can't stand.

I'm trying to decide between Stormcast or Fyreslayers as an army, leaning kinda towards Fyreslayers because they aren't nearly as popular and from a fluff perspective the fact they are mercenaries seem like it could be fun as it would give an narrative reason to fight against other Order armies, something Stormcast cannot really do.

[Carnelian]

I am also interested on people's opinions if fyreslayers are able to be run successfully at 1k points? I wrote a few lists out but struggled to get something I liked the look of

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

I am also interested on people's opinions if fyreslayers are able to be run successfully at 1k points? I wrote a few lists out but struggled to get something I liked the look of

Personally I have found that at 1000 points they cannot do enough, or gain enough synergy to be competitive. They get better the more points you play.

[Carnelian]

6 minutes ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

 

Personally I have found that at 1000 points they cannot do enough, or gain enough synergy to be competitive. They get better the more points you play.

 

That's such a shame. I'm looking to build armies in 1k blocks, play with them and then I can always add to them later. But I don't want to commit to 2k projects as it's too much fun to chop and change

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

8 minutes ago, Carnelian said:

That's such a shame. I'm looking to build armies in 1k blocks, play with them and then I can always add to them later. But I don't want to commit to 2k projects as it's too much fun to chop and change

Well they're playable, just get better at higher points levels. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it!

im playing a couple of 1k games with them tonight I'll let you know how it goes. 

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

3 hours ago, wayniac said:

Hi all, I am considering a new Order army and Fyreslayers popped up as an option because they don't seem that popular and seem like a good army.  I didn't want to make another thread when this thread is active, so could I get a brief like overview of how they play?  I've been told they are a solid all-around army, not super competitive (I'm not going super-competitive though) but solid, if limited.  For reference purposes I currently play Flesh-Eater Courts and absolutely hate how they play because it's no real punch and just drowning the opponent in dice, which I can't stand.

I'm trying to decide between Stormcast or Fyreslayers as an army, leaning kinda towards Fyreslayers because they aren't nearly as popular and from a fluff perspective the fact they are mercenaries seem like it could be fun as it would give an narrative reason to fight against other Order armies, something Stormcast cannot really do.

They're solid, but I wouldn't say they're an all round army. Their ranged attacks and mobility are limited and they have no magic. 

However they will take crazy amounts of punishment and dish it back out if played right. 

[Carnelian]

23 minutes ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

Well they're playable, just get better at higher points levels. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it!

im playing a couple of 1k games with them tonight I'll let you know how it goes. 

Please do! What are you taking in your lists?

The vulkites are so expensive and obviously only good in high numbers

 I struggled 

[wayniac]

I also like to do smaller point games, 1000-1500 is generally my limit so I'm curious how they play at this point level too, as it might influence my decision.

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

5 hours ago, Carnelian said:

Please do! What are you taking in your lists?

The vulkites are so expensive and obviously only good in high numbers

 I struggled 

It does seem that way but actually they're fine in units of 15 and priced about right I think. 

I played two games at 1000 points tonight with the following list:

Grimwrath Berserker
+ Relic Blade
15 Vulkite Berserkers
Lords of the Lodge
• Auric Runefather
+ Reckless
+ Relic Blade
• Auric Runemaster
• Battlesmith
• 10 Hearthguard Berserkers

 The first against Seraphon skink army in Border Wars. The vulkites held the rear against chameleon skinks and ripperdactyls whilst the Hearthguard trundled up the right flank killing all in their path with the double pile in. Eventually getting to the enemy objective in the fifth turn but there was still two skinks remaining in range of the objective so only a minor victory due to some good delay tactics. 

The second game was against a bonesplittaz boar rider battalion list where they can pile in and attack four time in their turn! The fyreslayers took crazy punishment and by turn three I conceded the battle as we were just locked in slowly dying combat I could never win  

 

 

 

[Nico]

Quote

Personally I have found that at 1000 points they cannot do enough, or gain enough synergy to be competitive. They get better the more points you play.

This was my exact experience at Blood & Glory at the 1,000 and especially the 500 points levels.

[Nico]

Quote

hey're solid, but I wouldn't say they're an all round army. Their ranged attacks and mobility are limited and they have no magic. 

Don't be afraid to include them in a Mixed Order army. They complement other Order factions quite well.

The Vulkites are priced ok, but only as 25s or 30s, or if you have to 5s for minimum Battleline, but then why not take units of 3 Waywatchers instead for 80 points which will actually contribute quite a bit to the game and fix one of the weaknesses of the Fyreslayers - weak range on their pew pew - one of my units sniped a 5 wound hero in turn one once for example in 3 Places of Power (or Reavers or Judciators - also inherent Battleline, but twice as expensive).

[Aeonotakist]

Pure Fyreslayer army are good at,

Lord of the Lodge formation - Very likely it will give you a double turn at reasonable price which is really powerful if used wisely.

Hearth Brothern formation - altogether +3 save, if focused on one unit it will be extremely powerful. But the weekness is Runesmiter is easy to snipe and this formation will collapse.

Hearth Guard - Very powerful shooting unit BUT SHORT RANGED. It is diffcult to use but have great potential.

Also the Lizard with Runesmiter is OK due to extremely low price and can be used as bomb.

 

So you can see it is not an army for AoS beginner, but not really bad if you are experienced.

 

 

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

54 minutes ago, Aeonotakist said:

Pure Fyreslayer army are good at,

Lord of the Lodge formation - Very likely it will give you a double turn at reasonable price which is really powerful if used wisely.

Hearth Brothern formation - altogether +3 save, if focused on one unit it will be extremely powerful. But the weekness is Runesmiter is easy to snipe and this formation will collapse.

Hearth Guard - Very powerful shooting unit BUT SHORT RANGED. It is diffcult to use but have great potential.

Also the Lizard with Runesmiter is OK due to extremely low price and can be used as bomb.

 

So you can see it is not an army for AoS beginner, but not really bad if you are experienced.

 

 

These are decent points but they all apply to not pure fyreslayers too. Tbh there's really no reason to be Fyreslayers Allegiance at the moment. Order has superior benefits that work well with the army.

with lords of the lodge you take it for the double pile in not the turn roll bonus, that double pile in on a unit of 15 is pretty awesome and pays for itself quickly.

also for Forge brethren I take the smiter on droth, less snipable and the one use to wound buff is fantastic if used at the right time.

 

[Aeonotakist]

 

1 minute ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

These are decent points but they all apply to not pure fyreslayers too. Tbh there's really no reason to be Fyreslayers Allegiance at the moment. Order has superior benefits that work well with the army.

with lords of the lodge you take it for the double pile in not the turn roll bonus, that double pile in on a unit of 15 is pretty awesome and pays for itself quickly.

also for Forge brethren I take the smiter on droth, less snipable and the one use to wound buff is fantastic if used at the right time.

 

Double pile-in is good against melee focused army, while against shooting and deep strike it has limited effect since Berserkers are too slow. However the one time double turn is super in all cases.

I agree it is a better solution for Order Alliance. But that topic is too big. Alao an army of 800 Fyreslayer and 1200 other stuff might not be attractive to Fyreslayer lovers.

One immidiate add up can be a Prime with all other Fyreslayer models. It gives really good ranged ability and force the enemy to contact Fyreslayer faster.

 

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

19 minutes ago, Aeonotakist said:

One immidiate add up can be a Prime with all other Fyreslayer models. It gives really good ranged ability and force the enemy to contact Fyreslayer faster.

 

Grimnir-Prime conversion incoming...

[Carnelian]

2 hours ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

Grimnir-Prime conversion incoming...

Please do this. Tiny little naked dude with an axe swirling in the middle of the prime

[Tubs]

On 18/01/2017 at 9:33 PM, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

They're basically the same damage output tbh. But I prefer the poles for the extra mortal wounds which we need. The sling shields and droths  aren't reliable enough

If you hit and wounded everything yes but the polearms have an extra 3+ they need to roll and don't benefit as greatly from the runesmiter. The mortal wounds are great but I'm not sure that it's worth the reduction in possible damage output for a few guaranteed wounds

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

43 minutes ago, Tubs said:

If you hit and wounded everything yes but the polearms have an extra 3+ they need to roll and don't benefit as greatly from the runesmiter. The mortal wounds are great but I'm not sure that it's worth the reduction in possible damage output for a few guaranteed wounds

Well that's your choice really. It's a good point though that to wound buffs aren't as effective on them. 

Damage stats for a unit of 10 of each against a 6+ save:

Poleaxe: 4.9+ 4.5M = 9.4

Broadaxe: 11.1 + 0M = 11.1

Damage stats for a unit of 10 of each against a 4+ save:

Poleaxe: 2.9+ 4.5M = 7.4

Broadaxe: 7.2 + 0M = 7.2

Damage stats for a unit of 10 of each against a 2+ save:

Poleaxe: 1.0+ 4.5M = 5.5

Broadaxe: 3.4 + 0M = 3.4

so you can see poles are best against high armour targets and broads are better against low armour targets. As we would expect. 

Theyre the only source of reliable mortal wounds we have aside from the magmadroth ranged ability, but even that isn't that great unless you can get lots of 6s. Poleaxe Hearthguard are hands down our best unit for anti-armour. 

[Tubs]

29 minutes ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

Well that's your choice really. It's a good point though that to wound buffs aren't as effective on them. 

Damage stats for a unit of 10 of each against a 6+ save:

Poleaxe: 4.9+ 4.5M = 9.4

Broadaxe: 11.1 + 0M = 11.1

Damage stats for a unit of 10 of each against a 4+ save:

Poleaxe: 2.9+ 4.5M = 7.4

Broadaxe: 7.2 + 0M = 7.2

Damage stats for a unit of 10 of each against a 2+ save:

Poleaxe: 1.0+ 4.5M = 5.5

Broadaxe: 3.4 + 0M = 3.4

so you can see poles are best against high armour targets and broads are better against low armour targets. As we would expect. 

Theyre the only source of reliable mortal wounds we have aside from the magmadroth ranged ability, but even that isn't that great unless you can get lots of 6s. Poleaxe Hearthguard are hands down our best unit for anti-armour. 

You've convinced me now ?. Plus I almost think that vulkites with 2 hand weapons are more or less the same thing.

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

50 minutes ago, Tubs said:

You've convinced me now ?. Plus I almost think that vulkites with 2 hand weapons are more or less the same thing.

Ha! Well the math never lies. 

The damage output of 10 vulkites for comparison against a 4+ is: 

pick+shield: 4.6 (+1.7M on charge)

dual axes: 6.3

so they're not quite as good as Hearthguard, but they have access to 4+ save which is useful and have a more reliable charge with the hornblower. Also 20 points cheaper! 

Vulkites are great imo

[Carnelian]

How about this as a 1k list

Grimwrath 

Runesmiter 

Battle Smith

30 vulkites

10 auric hearthguard