AaronWilson Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Hey guys - Would like some input. I may be attending the first heat of the AoS GT at WHW, I'm thinking of taking the below - LCoD Lord Castellant Knight Venator Knight Vexillor 5 Judicators 5 Judicators 5 Liberators 10 Retributors 4 Fulminators The only thing I may be worth changing is dropping the Venator, making the 3rd battleline unit Judicators which would leave me 80 points for something like a gryph hound + a triumph or a Lord Relictor to be at 2000 Appreciate any advice from experienced tournament players, or any advice on the above liss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 Any advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexHarrison Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Seems to me you have a fairly standard setup which covers a lot of the strengths of SE. I wouldnt drop the venator just for the above changes as he can be game changing. Whats your reasoning for no formations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 That is a nice list but i would find some points somewhere to have either a knight heraldor or upgrade the fulminators to concussors, one or the other. For example, drop the venator and replace him with the knight heraldor. OR Drop the venator and +80 for concussors and +60 to turn the liberators to judicators. 2000 precisely. This one is a pretty big change if you do not have the models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 3 hours ago, kozokus said: That is a nice list but i would find some points somewhere to have either a knight heraldor or upgrade the fulminators to concussors, one or the other. For example, drop the venator and replace him with the knight heraldor. OR Drop the venator and +80 for concussors and +60 to turn the liberators to judicators. 2000 precisely. This one is a pretty big change if you do not have the models. Thanks for the advice - I prefer the Fulminators as a unit, so I'm not looking to swap them but would be interested in why you think the Knight Heraldor would be a better piece to take over the Venator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 3 hours ago, AlexHarrison said: Seems to me you have a fairly standard setup which covers a lot of the strengths of SE. I wouldnt drop the venator just for the above changes as he can be game changing. Whats your reasoning for no formations? The reason for no formations is I don't want to run Skyborne Slayers as I find it awkward to get the perfect set up. Bar SB I'm not a huge fan of any of the Stormcast Formations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexHarrison Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 1 minute ago, AaronWIlson said: The reason for no formations is I don't want to run Skyborne Slayers as I find it awkward to get the perfect set up. Bar SB I'm not a huge fan of any of the Stormcast Formations. Whats awkward about it? You have 12 inches which is huge as only one model needs to be within 12 inches of that point? Practice makes perfect I agree, the Heraldor doesn't seem too good of a buy in comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olincay Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 27 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said: 28 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said: Thanks for the advice - I prefer the Fulminators as a unit, so I'm not looking to swap them but would be interested in why you think the Knight Heraldor would be a better piece to take over the Venator? Personally I've found the Heraldor to be far more consistent and reliable than the Venator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 20 minutes ago, AlexHarrison said: Whats awkward about it? You have 12 inches which is huge as only one model needs to be within 12 inches of that point? Practice makes perfect I agree, the Heraldor doesn't seem too good of a buy in comparison When I mean the perfect set I, mean to have enough punch in the list to make the formation meaningful. I'm not a fan of the decimator and while I appreciate the protectors CAN blow a monster up it's very dice dependant. With no formations I feel like I've fmgot the right mix of hammer (Ret blob + Fulminators) , meaningful shooting (judicators + Venator + dracothian stuff) as well as the support piece in the Lord Castellant as well as enough mobile heroes to play Places of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexHarrison Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 My biggest concern is that youre forgetting armies like Clan Skyra which will decimate the list in 1 round by killing the vexillor and/or the retributors upon arrival. The alpha strike element of AOS is what makes me feel like skybourne slayers prevents that nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 18 minutes ago, AlexHarrison said: My biggest concern is that youre forgetting armies like Clan Skyra which will decimate the list in 1 round by killing the vexillor and/or the retributors upon arrival. The alpha strike element of AOS is what makes me feel like skybourne slayers prevents that nonsense I think on nearly every table there will be decent LoS blocking pieces, or I can simply place the Vexillor in the far back corner of the board. Secondly I have 9 drops, a rat army should have more so I should get to choose first turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexHarrison Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Have you face clan skyre? They only deploy 1 model, rest appears within 3" of you then unloads on average 50 mortal wounds, its horrific. Just one of many threatening tourney lists to be aware from hence why people have taken the loss of damage (rets) for reliability and deployment from the skybourne. Non-the less its a solid list and id like to see some bat reps and reports of your games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 1 hour ago, AaronWIlson said: I prefer the Fulminators as a unit, so I'm not looking to swap them but would be interested in why you think the Knight Heraldor would be a better piece to take over the Venator? The venator does not serve any purpose except shooting things from afar. His onepuncharrow is not reliable enough to justify this. Dedicated shooting units shoots better than him. On the other hand the Heraldor is Synergic with the fulminators and allow repositionements. He can occasionally TRUMPET a piece of scenery todeal more consistent wounds than the venator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 18 minutes ago, AlexHarrison said: My biggest concern is that youre forgetting armies like Clan Skyra which will decimate the list in 1 round by killing the vexillor and/or the retributors upon arrival. The alpha strike element of AOS is what makes me feel like skybourne slayers prevents that nonsense I think on nearly every table there will be decent LoS blocking pieces, or I can simply place the Vexillor in the far back corner of the board. Secondly I have 9 drops, a rat army should have more so I should get to choose first turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Quote Secondly I have 9 drops, a rat army should have more so I should get to choose first turn If Skryre - they will be a single drop formation army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 1 hour ago, AlexHarrison said: Have you face clan skyre? They only deploy 1 model, rest appears within 3" of you then unloads on average 50 mortal wounds, its horrific. Just one of many threatening tourney lists to be aware from hence why people have taken the loss of damage (rets) for reliability and deployment from the skybourne. Non-the less its a solid list and id like to see some bat reps and reports of your games Thanks for your solid advice, I haven't played a list like you mentioned but it sounds like it could be a problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronWilson Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 1 hour ago, kozokus said: The venator does not serve any purpose except shooting things from afar. His onepuncharrow is not reliable enough to justify this. Dedicated shooting units shoots better than him. On the other hand the Heraldor is Synergic with the fulminators and allow repositionements. He can occasionally TRUMPET a piece of scenery todeal more consistent wounds than the venator. While I appreciate your comments I think the merits of the venator are a little more then just shooting from a far, he is a solid piece on places of power and a great model to tear away at a wizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimli Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 best defense against the skyre list is shooting + gryph-hounds or your own teleporting list. I'm not a storm cast player but I feel your list is a little small I guess your aiming for MSU style. I think your list may have a little trouble against a shooty list or artillery as they will tend to out range you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Quote best defense against the skyre list is shooting + gryph-hounds or your own teleporting list. I'm not a storm cast player but I feel your list is a little small I guess your aiming for MSU style. I think your list may have a little trouble against a shooty list or artillery as they will tend to out range you. The second suggestion is a good one. Due to objectives and feeding in units one at a time rather than dropping in 2 dollops, Skyborne Slayers should bear Clan Skryre every day of the week. Unfortunately Gryph Hounds don't really work against the Clan Skryre formation as they can deploy outside of the bubble, then walk in, then shoot 8. At best it complicates their targeting, but don't expect it to be foolproof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimli Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 25 minutes ago, Nico said: The second suggestion is a good one. Due to objectives and feeding in units one at a time rather than dropping in 2 dollops, Skyborne Slayers should bear Clan Skryre every day of the week. Unfortunately Gryph Hounds don't really work against the Clan Skryre formation as they can deploy outside of the bubble, then walk in, then shoot 8. At best it complicates their targeting, but don't expect it to be foolproof. I was under the impression that the deep striking for clan skyre counts as their moving so I didnt think they can move after. Can someone add the rules for this as per the tunneling rule it counts as movement so I may of misread the ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Quote was under the impression that the deep striking for clan skyre counts as their moving so I didnt think they can move after. Can someone add the rules for this as per the tunneling rule it counts as movement so I may of misread the ability. You have misread it - they come on in the hero phase and there's nothing to stop them moving thereafter. The regular Warpgrinder has different rules - the standard 9 and cannot move - you may be thinking of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimli Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 10 minutes ago, Nico said: You have misread it - they come on in the hero phase and there's nothing to stop them moving thereafter. The regular Warpgrinder has different rules - the standard 9 and cannot move - you may be thinking of those. can you quote the formation rule/ the rule that allows this, if you have it id like to read it as I believe this is where the 3" deep strike may come from.. I was under the impression that you need the warpgrinders for the formation to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 In hero phase... "Set up one ... Warp Grinder anywhere on the Battlefield, then set up each other unit from the Enginecoven within 8" of it. Any unit that is set up within 3" of the enemy suffers D6 mortal wounds." This illustrates quite well that "moves" are distinct from "set up" rules (also see page 2 of the normal FAQ on Set Up) - if there's no express restriction on how close you can be - you can be adjacent to the enemy unit. Obviously there's nothing that says that this counts as its move for the subsequent movement phase either. Yes - it's that broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimli Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 53 minutes ago, Nico said: In hero phase... "Set up one ... Warp Grinder anywhere on the Battlefield, then set up each other unit from the Enginecoven within 8" of it. Any unit that is set up within 3" of the enemy suffers D6 mortal wounds." This illustrates quite well that "moves" are distinct from "set up" rules (also see page 2 of the normal FAQ on Set Up) - if there's no express restriction on how close you can be - you can be adjacent to the enemy unit. Obviously there's nothing that says that this counts as its move for the subsequent movement phase either. Yes - it's that broken. can I ask what is this formation called? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Clan Skryre (no I'm not joking - that's what it's called). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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