shinros Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 5 hours ago, Tronhammer NZ said: Speaking of bad plots... Neferata can't be trusted, but Mannfred is an emotionally stunted child-man who could destroy the world. Arkhan for president: #FeelTheBlack On topic? Depends what you need. M has more combat efficacy, but N has some amazing defensive synergies when combined with the likes of Mourngul etc. And neferata is a vampire who can't think beyond her base wants and flesh and never succeeds at many of her plans because she thinks too small. Can't even realize sigmar is slapping her in the face while wanting an alliance. In lord of undeath she was pretty much the slowpoke in the book with Arkhan and mannfred pretty much aware of what nagash is doing. Mannfred pretty much pulled this on everyone in my opinion during the end times. He was actually being quite adult about the situation. Until nagash put him on the plate to die so if someone puts you forward to be sacrificed takes all your lands after you serve him AND resurrect him then said people pretty much ruin everything you ever built and worked on and you have nothing left to return to what else did you expect to happen? He was even okay with neferata and the tomb kings ruling sylvania for christ sake he was pissed off but was dealing with it. The whole point of Arkhan's and Vlad's conversation before mannfred was put on the plate was that nagash's arrogance would be his and everyone's undoing. Which of course happened. Nagash gave up the wrong servant that's the whole point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 23 minutes ago, shinros said: And neferata is a vampire who can't think beyond her base wants and flesh and never succeeds at many of her plans because she thinks too small. In a hero, perhaps that's a damning trait, but in an anti-hero, it actually makes her more likable. Just give Neffy her jumbo shrimp and dancing girls (or jumbo dancing girls, or whatever) and she's good to go. It's easier to negotiate with someone who wants something than it is to negotiate with someone who's, you know, insane or obsessed with some principal or something. I wouldn't mind being a mortal in Neffy's territory. Just make sure I can give her something she wants or at least stay out of her way and I'm golden. I don't trust Manny, though. It's one thing to be someone who can't be bought, and something else to be someone who stays bought, but someone who changes his mind? Nope. Too unpredictable for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 31 minutes ago, ElectricPaladin said: In a hero, perhaps that's a damning trait, but in an anti-hero, it actually makes her more likable. Just give Neffy her jumbo shrimp and dancing girls (or jumbo dancing girls, or whatever) and she's good to go. It's easier to negotiate with someone who wants something than it is to negotiate with someone who's, you know, insane or obsessed with some principal or something. I wouldn't mind being a mortal in Neffy's territory. Just make sure I can give her something she wants or at least stay out of her way and I'm golden. I don't trust Manny, though. It's one thing to be someone who can't be bought, and something else to be someone who stays bought, but someone who changes his mind? Nope. Too unpredictable for me! No you would not want to be a mortal in neffy's territory because she can never defend it when push comes to shove. In lord of undeath she was going to leave everyone to die and take her favorite items with her through the realm gate. Just like in times of legends. Don't get me wrong I like neferata also but I just personally find it strange that people did not really expect mannfred to pull such a thing as per the saying "fear the man who has nothing to lose" mannfred had nothing to lose just like nagash when he decided to kill ALL life in Nehekhara. People call mannfred a "man - child" but after reading the end times campaign books and black library novels he was being pretty bloody reasonable with his situation. Also If you read the fantasy roleplay sylvania was pretty great under mannfred's rule undead guarding everywhere, low taxes and no one being put into cages(yes vlad put the peasantry in cages) but giving blood willingly. He turned all the peasants into cultists and nobles in necromancers and vampires. Made them some what independent in some form but as a vassal they have to raise their armies when called. Of course they did because no one wanted to make an enemy of mannfred considering everything he learned at nagashizzar and Lahmia. Still nagash has grown wiser since gaining godhood since now he no longer has a clear "favorite" servant or puts preferable treatment over the other. Heck nagash is quite annoyed that Arkhan no longer has any ambition what so ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 This is why death players are the best. In every other sub forum the commenters step in pretty quickly to explain why one model is mathematically better than another - but not here! Here the major talking point is whether Mannfred is a Dorchester* or not! *tried to write douche but i found this autocorrect very amusing so left it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 you can use the statistic analysys, but it's use.ess cause their roles are totally different, so why use them? It's much better use other styles to value. And I oinpoint Neferaa only cause Vlad is not avalaible on dread abissal otherway I would have yet my favourite mortrch^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Plus it's hard to mathematically calculate support units, because it depends a lot on what you're supporting. Their value drops as the rest of your army weakens. That and Mathhammer is just tedious, especially when people use it as gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 19 hours ago, Carnelian said: This is why death players are the best. In every other sub forum the commenters step in pretty quickly to explain why one model is mathematically better than another - but not here! Here the major talking point is whether Mannfred is a Dorchester* or not! *tried to write douche but i found this autocorrect very amusing so left it in. We Death players have our favorites. In my opinion neferata or mannfred are not better than the other it's just play style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I like to calculate a lot of things, to compare the offensive potential of different units and to compare the strength of different buffs. I also find it very useful to know exactly how much damage on average my units will do, so I don't charge them into situations they cannot handle. If I know how many Retributors I can expect my Necropolis Knights to kill when they are fully buffed, I can use that to determine if I want to charge or not (just an example that came to mind because I was facing an army that had a 15-man Retributor unit recently). It's not gospel, but it's a useful tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Sorry please don't let my comment derail this thread into "whether to use mathhammer or not?". Instead let's here some more support for the so far under-represented-but-totally-bad-ass Arkhan the Black! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 2 minutes ago, Carnelian said: Instead let's here some more support for the so far under-represented-but-totally-bad-ass Arkhan the Black! If/when I build a second mortarch, it'll probably be Arkhan. I just didn't find his model quite as compelling as Neffy's, so I decided to go with her for my first. Also, he's a bit too side-kick-y to be a favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Instead, I would like to voice my support for the one that does not serve! The one that does not bow to the Usurper's pathetic claims on the Underworld, unlike those pesky vampires and liches. Why send a mere servant to lead your armies, when you can have a ruler instead? Settra is the obvious choice here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 3 hours ago, ElectricPaladin said: If/when I build a second mortarch, it'll probably be Arkhan. I just didn't find his model quite as compelling as Neffy's, so I decided to go with her for my first. Also, he's a bit too side-kick-y to be a favorite. Magnets and you can do everything on a single model (and I have three of them^^ but still using magnets) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 6 hours ago, Solaris said: Instead, I would like to voice my support for the one that does not serve! The one that does not bow to the Usurper's pathetic claims on the Underworld, unlike those pesky vampires and liches. Why send a mere servant to lead your armies, when you can have a ruler instead? Settra is the obvious choice here! Well nagash got to godhood before settra and succeeded where he failed. He is still cool though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 5 hours ago, shinros said: Well nagash got to godhood before settra and succeeded where he failed. He is still cool though! Yes, through deceit and through usurping the Nehekharan God of the Underworld. Nagash is a punk and hardly deserving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGreen Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 I have no magnets. Plus, even when gluing arms to Dreadnought sized units I've had minor problems. Here it would be a pain in the(ir) tiny a&s. I'm going to start gluing them this weekend. So last chance - Neferata for sure ? Her resurrecting ability is completely useless for me if Ihave to pay for it, but -1 to hit roll for every enemy model is so cool. Arkhan is out of the question, but I'm on the fence with Manfred. He has a crap8y looking mount but seems like he can hit hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 5 hours ago, Solaris said: Yes, through deceit and through usurping the Nehekharan God of the Underworld. Nagash is a punk and hardly deserving Right through conquest he could not defend his spot he did not deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Personally I wish Nagash had a bit more Jullian Rigman to him. That's a portrayal that epitomises Death for me, tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 11 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said: Personally I wish Nagash had a bit more Jullian Rigman to him. That's a portrayal that epitomises Death for me, tbh. He was kinda like that in lord of undeath lol. Not totally but a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGreen Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 How do you use command abilities ? Do you need to declare it or roll sth ? Mortarch’s Vigour of Undeath: Mannfred’s iron will binds his minions to his service and pushes them beyond their normal limits. If Mannfred uses this ability, then until your next hero phase you can re-roll hit and wound rolls of 1 for Deathunits from your army that are within the range shown on the damage table. Is Manfred within his own range ? I mean does he boost himself too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 17 minutes ago, MikeGreen said: How do you use command abilities ? Do you need to declare it or roll sth ? Mortarch’s Vigour of Undeath: Mannfred’s iron will binds his minions to his service and pushes them beyond their normal limits. If Mannfred uses this ability, then until your next hero phase you can re-roll hit and wound rolls of 1 for Deathunits from your army that are within the range shown on the damage table. Is Manfred within his own range ? I mean does he boost himself too ? yes, they hae to be declared and there is a FAQ about being within own ranges about abilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 You are always within range of your own abilities, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinros Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 11 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said: You are always within range of your own abilities, IIRC. Pretty much this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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