Battalions, Keywords, & Shadowstrike Starhost

[PJetski]

So according to the AOS Errata a Battalion is formed from Keywords and not from actual unit names:

Quote

 

Q: Does a named character with the Bloodthirster or Keeper of Secrets keyword fit a warscroll battalion that requires you to have a Bloodthirster or Keeper of Secrets? A: Yes – the requirements listed for a warscroll battalion should always be treated as keywords.

Does this mean that a Shadowstrike Starhost can be run with units that have the SKINK keyword?

Many Seraphon units have the SKINK keyword, such as the Bastiladon and the Stegadon.

[Nico]

I think you're pushing the limits of this idea. It is plural ("Skinks") for a reason. This is more of a stretch than Treelord Ancient = Treelord would be.

[Quetzalcoatlus]

On 10/12/2016 at 5:10 PM, Nico said:

I think you're pushing the limits of this idea. It is plural ("Skinks") for a reason. This is more of a stretch than Treelord Ancient = Treelord would be.

If singular/plural matters, this creates another problem: You can no longer use the Skink Alpha ability of the Stegadon on a unit of Skinks, since it uses the keyword SKINK and not SKINKS.

This weird ruling also means that a Starpriest counts as a Starpriest and a Priest with regards to the Heavenswatch battalion, since he has both keywords. Also, and Engine of the Gods has the keywords ENGINE OF THE GODS and STEGADON, messing up both the Heavenswatch and the Thunderquake. The former consists of 1 Starseer, 2 Starpriest/Priest/Troglodon and 3-6 other skink units. Going by the FAQ, you could end up with something like this:

• 1 Starseer
• 1 Starpriest (which somehow takes both slots, since he has both keywords)
• 1 Engine of the Gods (again, taking two slots)
• 1 unit of Skinks

Before I ran into this bit of the FAQ at a tournament this Saturday, I'd always assume that a battalion of 1, 2 and 3-6 units actually meant 6-9 in total, but apparently it doesn't.

[rokapoke]

Again, the issue is consistency -- later battalions may have been written with keywords in mind, but these Seraphon battalions (and other early publication battalions, like those in the Stormcast Eternals battletome) were clearly written with the intent of using unit names rather than keywords.

It's a botched FAQ or a retconned answer.

[Quetzalcoatlus]

Yeah, it's basically errata, not FAQ. 

Edit: Wait, didn't the Grand Alliance books come out this year? Even that clearly uses unit names (Heavenswatch is from that book, not the Seraphon Battletome). Honestly, the FAQ entry means less and less sense.

[BaldoBeardo]

The language is "units of X".
There is a difference between "2 units of Skinks" and "2 SKINK units".

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[Quetzalcoatlus]

5 minutes ago, BaldoBeardo said:

The language is "units of X".
There is a difference between "2 units of Skinks" and "2 SKINK units".
 

Doesn't really help. The Thunderquake asks for "2 units of Bastiladon",  even though they are obviously single models (the rules are pretty clear that everything is part of a unit, which can be one model or infinitely large). If you're supposed to use keywords, then "2 HEROES chosen from this list: Skink Priest or Starpriest" would actually mean "1 Starpriest or 2 Priests", again, since it has both keywords.

Come to think of it, the use of the word HEROES in bold and capitals, while Starpriest and Priest are not, flies in the face of both the keywords argument and the singular/plural argument, since not a single unit has the keyword HEROES (plural).

[BaldoBeardo]

I don't get your point.
How is "2 units of Bastiladon" confusing?
As you point out yourself, a unit is one or more models...?

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[Quetzalcoatlus]

20 minutes ago, BaldoBeardo said:

I don't get your point.
How is "2 units of Bastiladon" confusing?
As you point out yourself, a unit is one or more models...?

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I completely agree with you, there is definitely a difference. "A unit of Skinks" refers to a unit name and a warscroll, while "a SKINK unit" refers to a unit with the keyword SKINK or SKINKS. Problem is, the FAQ says otherwise.

[BaldoBeardo]

The apparent incongruence of the FAQ (to me) disappears when you realise the unit title is "Anointed on phoenix", not "Upgraded phoenix". The warscroll layout is confusing admittedly but that's because they're per box.


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[Quetzalcoatlus]

Basically, the OP brings up two problems, each with to different answers:

• 1) Battalion requirements refer to keywords OR 2) Battalion requirements refer to unit names
• a) Numbers in keywords matter OR b) numbers in keywords to not matter.

Any combination has consequences:

• 1a) Some battalions contains lots of superfluous text (such as asking for a Priest and a Starpriest, and some battalions (such as those asking for WIZARDS and HEROES), simply become illegal, as no units with these keywords exist. Also, abilities that affect DAEMONS (such as the Solar Engine) now does nothing, again, since this keyword doesn't exist.
• 1b) The OPs overpowered Bastiladon combo is legal.
• 2a) See 1a) regarding abilities.
• 2b) The "2 Phoenixes with 2 Anointed in a battalion" combo is legal.