TOW vs AoS sell-out guess!

[JerekKruger]

3 hours ago, Sarouan said:

There's an interesting debate to have on that topic, to be honest some already did (I suggest people to listen to Guerilla Miniature Games' videos made on that matter). Suffice to say here that no matter what 3D printer fans say about it, it's still a privilege to own and use a 3D printer "at home" - and 3D printing services can vary greatly in quality depending of the resin used, the scale made "right", the way miniatures are cured / prepared, and so on. It's still not replacing miniatures sold in retail for a lot of reasons other than "GW bad grrr".

Having printed a whole army of Highland Miniature dwarves with my own, sure, I can say it "looks" easy. But to get where I am now, I did have to learn a lot of things in 2 years before having a quality I can say is "close" to professionnal production in terms of quality and durability. Still not beating the pleasure to build GW plastic models, though...but yeah, I love conversions and now that I know how to use 3D software, I can convert models directly with the files before printing and it adds a whole new universe of possibilities (I even sculpt my own models from time to time). Again, that's not something you can do when you receive your first 3D printer you just purchase with bottles of cheap resin...and not everyone enjoys to do that either.

Well said. I think some 3D printing fans are to quick to ignore the difficulties of getting set up with 3D printing, and getting to a stage where you end product is good. I would love to be able to do it at home, but it's just not an option for me in my current situation, and because of my particular psychology I don't think it would be unless I could have a dedicated room for it (so, realistically, it never will be).

I've also been disappointed by the couple of 3D prints I bought from Etsy. I don't think this is a sign that 3D printing itself is bad: just that it's too easy for someone to set themselves up seeking on Etsy as a side income without necessarily producing great quality products.

[Tonhel]

34 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

Well said. I think some 3D printing fans are to quick to ignore the difficulties of getting set up with 3D printing, and getting to a stage where you end product is good. I would love to be able to do it at home, but it's just not an option for me in my current situation, and because of my particular psychology I don't think it would be unless I could have a dedicated room for it (so, realistically, it never will be).

I've also been disappointed by the couple of 3D prints I bought from Etsy. I don't think this is a sign that 3D printing itself is bad: just that it's too easy for someone to set themselves up seeking on Etsy as a side income without necessarily producing great quality products.

I think for 3D printing you either do it yourself, because buying 3D prints will only result in disappointment. The wrong resin used, wrong scale, badly removed supports and it isn't cheaper than GW in the end. So imo. You either print it yourself or stay away from it. Certainly for armybuilding. Atleast that's my advice. 😄

Edited April 26 by Tonhel

[Marcvs]

41 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

I think for 3D printing you either do it yourself, because buying 3D prints will only result in disappointment. The wrong resin used, wrong scale, badly removed supports and it isn't cheaper than GW in the end. So imo. You either print it yourself or stay away from it. Certainly for armybuilding. Atleast that's my advice. 😄

Or you do a test order of a couple of minis before placing a large order

[JerekKruger]

Even test prints aren't that reliable. I ordered the same mini twice at different scales from the same person in Etsy (to get an idea of which scale I preferred) and it came in two different resins. Nether were particularly good prints, but there was a noticeable difference between them to. So my test concluded that I could rely on said printer to be consistent. 

Honestly it's live to have the room to have my own 3d printing setup. But if it ever happens it'll be a long time in the future.

[Sarouan]

16 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Or you do a test order of a couple of minis before placing a large order

Well, that's exactly why 3D printed miniatures are considered risky. Ash from Guerilla Miniature Games recently interviewed the creator of Bestiarum Miniatures (known for his "Dark Soul-like / Horror Fantasy" 3D models) who recently decided to have its own production of physical miniatures, and the main reason for that is quality control. When you sell the "license" for 3D printing services, you basically lose control of the quality of your models in physical : and that can influence greatly the way people see your miniatures in the end. Because it's "official" and yet you can have a bad model or a great one. Depends on the 3D printing service itself. Bestiarum Miniatures are particularly vulnerable to this because of how thin they are on a lot of their details (they tend to have "realistic proportions" : it's somewhat ok for big monsters, but human-sized 32mm miniatures tend to break veeeery easily if you use a cheap resin - I know, I have tried and broke fingers while trying to drybrush ).

Asking people to "test order" a couple of minis isn't really serious. It's like saying "well you're not sure about that phone ? Test order one !" : basically, it's asking people to still buy something they're not sure it will be the quality it looks like on the advertised renders. And if it's not, it's lost money and you throw the horrible miniature in the bin. Awful feeling.

That's why GW business model has still a lot of great years ahead of them. And that's why a lot of quality 3D sculptors who are on patreon for years are shifting now to a controlled physical production on their own : because that's the only way to make sure the quality of 3D printing is good and selling reliably their brand in retail stores.

Edited April 27 by Sarouan

[Marcvs]

1 hour ago, Sarouan said:

Asking people to "test order" a couple of minis isn't really serious. It's like saying "well you're not sure about that phone ? Test order one !" : basically, it's asking people to still buy something they're not sure it will be the quality it looks like on the advertised renders. And if it's not, it's lost money and you throw the horrible miniature in the bin. Awful feeling.

To each their own I guess. If you want to buy 3d prints (because you like the minis not because you want to save money) and don't have a 3d printer yourself (or a friend with one) I'd say test buying before placing larger orders is a good option. How would you proceed?

Tbh, I don't think your example with the phone really works, it would be more like: before buying the phone from a shop you don't know, maybe order something cheaper and see if they deliver, or something like that.

PS: my point is not to defend the 3d printing business, let alone saying that GW is doomed. Just giving advice based on my experience

 

[Tonhel]

One of the major benefits for me is that 3D printing allows sculptors to release mini's that otherwise wouldn't be doable / profitable (casting/production cost, stock and etc.)

But yeah, @Sarouan is correct. GW certainly don't need to be worried for the near future.

But for people who have a 3D printer is now so much easier to get an army on the battlefield.

[JerekKruger]

1 hour ago, Tonhel said:

One of the major benefits for me is that 3D printing allows sculptors to release mini's that otherwise wouldn't be doable / profitable (casting/production cost, stock and etc.)

Yeah, just to be clear I think there are huge benefits to 3D printing, I'm glad it exists and I'm very happy for people who are able to make use of it. I just sometimes get the feeling people who are 3D printing converts can be a bit dismissive of the barriers (to be clear, I haven't seen that in this thread: people have been very reasonable).

[Tonhel]

1 hour ago, JerekKruger said:

Yeah, just to be clear I think there are huge benefits to 3D printing, I'm glad it exists and I'm very happy for people who are able to make use of it. I just sometimes get the feeling people who are 3D printing converts can be a bit dismissive of the barriers (to be clear, I haven't seen that in this thread: people have been very reasonable).

Yeah, are correct with the barriers and that people who are claiming that 3D printing is the best thing ever (including me) easliy forget that it is not as simple as opening a box of plastic mini's and glueing them together. It's all great when you finally found the right settings for your printer/resin and added the supports correctly, because when it goes wrong it is always a pain to clean and etc.

But printing stuff like this (which will be released soon) makes it all worth it.

[Sarouan]

20 hours ago, JerekKruger said:

I just sometimes get the feeling people who are 3D printing converts can be a bit dismissive of the barriers.

It's not a feeling : some totally are, especially in the youtube comments / x ex twitter / reddit forums. Mostly those who think 3D printing is the pinacle of miniature market and try to impose it to everyone (and tend to really, really hate GW and want to see it burn to the ground / would love to see a miniature wargame world with only 3D printing and no more miniature "in hard" sold traditionnally in retail stores). And of course those who already have an interest in 3D printing services (like those who do that for living and don't want negative aspects to show up on 3D printing 'cause it's bad for their business...).

It's similar with what happens with AI "artmaking" software : people who think new tech is always the best and their negative aspects / consequences don't exist, thus being very harsh or bordeline lying just to "defend their turf".

 

18 hours ago, Tonhel said:

But printing stuff like this (which will be released soon) makes it all worth it.

Depends what resin you will use and what level of detail your 3D printer can manage. If they're not good enough, the result will be making you cry.

Edited April 28 by Sarouan

[Tonhel]

58 minutes ago, Sarouan said:

Depends what resin you will use and what level of detail your 3D printer can manage. If they're not good enough, the result will be making you cry.

Yes, ofcourse, but here are two mini's of the same creator that I printed. It's not that you need an expensive printer for it.

Printed with an Elegoo Mars 4 Max (around 200 euro) and Elegoo ABS 2.0 Like resin (54 euro for 2 Liter, so certainly not the most expensive resin). Also the settings I use are:

Edited April 28 by Tonhel