witchhammer92 Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Hey folks I'm just getting into AoS and I have some Chaos Warriors and Knights lying around so figure Slaves to Darkness are a great place to start. I also love the Kairos model, thus the lean towards Tzeentch. From what I understand Khorne is currently the powerhouse but I imagine with the starter set there's a million Bloodbound armies going around and I love to be the odd one out! So, with no further ado my first list... Kairos Fateweaver 300 Curseling, Lord of Tzeentch 140 Chaos Warriors x 10, hand weapon and shield 180 Chaos Warriors x 10, hand weapon and shield 180 Chaos Warriors x 10, hand weapon and shield 180 Chaos Knights x 10, Ensorcerelled weapons 400 Chaos Marauders x 20, barbarian axe and shield 120 Kairos is a must have for me, especially for his ability to deal mortal wounds. Chaos Warriors seem like they can tank a fair amount of damage and the Curseling can run around, stealing spells if they're nasty and lending a hand with combat. Chaos Knights are the main damage dealer and Marauders are around to soak wounds to prevent the enemy getting to Kairos and laying on the hurt. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 I feel really sorry for the long succession of players who want to play Tzeentch. They really are terrible now. Pray for an Allegiance Pack for them soon! At the moment they simply aren't competitive. Quote Chaos Knights are the main damage dealer This is almost a bad joke. Chaos Knights hit pathetically - that many points for so little. If anything they are better at tanking - sitting on an objective and not dying. This was my best effort at a Tzeentch themed list and it's not very Tzeentch keyworded. Chaos Trolling List 1 x Be'Lakor (1) 240 1 x Galrauch (1) 340 1 x Kairos Fateweaver (1) 300 1 x Changeling (1) 140 1 x Verminlord Deceiver (1) 320 1 x Festus the Leechlord (1) 120 1 x Chaos Warriors (10) 180 1 x Chaos Warriors (10) 180 1 x Chaos Warriors (10) 180 2000 It should at least be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Hello! Welcome to AoS. I've never played with/against Tzeentch mortals before, but the Fatesworn Warband warscroll battallion from the Everchosen battletome is a little costly but makes otherwise pathetic hitting units in the way Nico described like chaos warriors and knights, at least halfway kill, bumping their non existant rend up to -1. It might seem like a big formation to fill out but you can bulk it out in smaller games with characters and individual chaos spawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Quote I've never played with/against Tzeentch mortals before, but the Fatesworn Warband warscroll battallion from the Everchosen battletome is a little costly but makes otherwise pathetic hitting units in the way Nico described like chaos warriors and knights, at least halfway kill, bumping their non existant rend up to -1. It might seem like a big formation to fill out but you can bulk it out in smaller games with characters and individual chaos spawn. Gaunt summoner (the Silver Tower one) is also a must for Tzeentch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witchhammer92 Posted September 1, 2016 Author Share Posted September 1, 2016 Ah yeah I didn't take into account the lack of rend... Glad I haven't purchased anything yet! Haha. I definitely want to try and make Knights work though, partly because I have some already and partly because the look awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 6 minutes ago, Nico said: Gaunt summoner (the Silver Tower one) is also a must for Tzeentch. Yep, the ogroid's good fun too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.speller Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 7 minutes ago, witchhammer92 said: Ah yeah I didn't take into account the lack of rend... Glad I haven't purchased anything yet! Haha. I definitely want to try and make Knights work though, partly because I have some already and partly because the look awesome. Make sure you put the lances on them and pick your combats. I run 10 tzeentch knights with hand weapons and shields, wish I hadn't built them that way. They bounce off most things they hit. I think you need to consider taking either the curseling, or kairos but not both. The Curseling is good against an opponent who is going to be casting a few spells a round, but if you're playing a bloodbound or stormcast list he's not really worth the points. Out of the two heroes from the silver tower, I think the ogroid is going to help you more, since he's alright in combat as well. I'd recommend looking into a daemon prince or a soul grinder as a unit that can deal damage in combat. Alternatively if you already have flamers around from 8th, try slapping them on the table instead of the knights. It probably won't go great, because they both don't work well against high armored units, but they might get more shots in sitting behind your warrior units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witchhammer92 Posted September 1, 2016 Author Share Posted September 1, 2016 Okay a thought... Replace the Curseling with a Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount, drop the Knights to 5 and add in a Slaughterbrute. Should give a bit more combat power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Slaughterbrute is junk - has barely any rend. 4+ save. Slow. Embarrassing. All Chaos riderless monsters are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Nico said: This is almost a bad joke. Chaos Knights hit pathetically - that many points for so little. If anything they are better at tanking - sitting on an objective and not dying. +1 The knight are more something like a veryyy fast tanking unit, compared to equaly costed unit, they are MUCH faster but hit much lower. Always remember the additional rules of them that diminish ennemy bravery. But do not use them to deal dammage. 14 minutes ago, Nico said: Slaughterbrute is junk - has barely any rend. 4+ save. Slow. Embarrassing. All Chaos riderless monsters are bad. Wouldn't say that. He is very comparable to the giant in a much better way. 200 pts is cheap for a 12 hp monster. It is honestly nor impressive nor bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Quote +1 The knight are more something like a veryyy fast tanking unit, compared to equaly costed unit, they are MUCH faster but hit much lower. Always remember the additional rules of them that diminish ennemy bravery. But do not use them to deal dammage. Largely agree with this. They are fast enough to get onto an objective on the mid line easily in turn one (even while sitting back a few inches to stay out of range of enemy shooting before that if applicable) so that's something. However, movement 10 is not amazing - a few units have movement 16. Quote Wouldn't say that. He is very comparable to the giant in a much better way. 200 pts is cheap for a 12 hp monster. It is honestly nor impressive nor bad. He just doesn't add anything over a regular block of troops. Good attack with high rend and high damage - nope. Really fast - nope. Mortal wounds - nope. 3+ save or ward save - nope. Fly - nope. Just like a regular unit of troops, he gets weaker as he takes damage, so that's not an advantage. He is immune to Battleshock at least. The decisive point is the fact that a unit of troops could count as 10 models for objective scoring, whereas the Slaughterbrute is only one. That matters in 4 of the Battleplans in the General's Handbook. Even a Chimera is a better option as a glass cannon. Be'Lakor is a better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddok Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 I did pretty well playing an army thst attempted to be tzeentch for a while. The key is adding things that seem tzeentch themed even if you can't really mark them. For example: hell cannons. A few of the combos and good pieces tzeentch has: -Chaos lord on demonic mount Mark of tzeentch: re rolling 4+ save and an awesome command ability. -Warshrine: makes all of your mortals gain a 6+ ward, but more importantly can Grant a rerollable save to one unit. Mystic shield a brick of warriors then give them the war shines prayer and they'll hold for a LONG time. I personally had 13 warriors hold off 10 khorne hounds and a wrath of khorne thirster for 3 turns this way. -Kairos is good, but the normal lord of changes spell is fantastic too -It's already been mentioned but the gaunt summoner from silver tower is a must -Sayl the faithless is utterly fantastic. he allows you to play defensively, then suddenly fly a unit 18 inches across the table. Combos very well with chosen -chosen: they're pretty expensive but they hit hard. I liked putting demonic power,mystic shield, and then traitors mist (sayls spell) and nail a big target. when I did this I would take 15, so a massive points sink but they dealt 11 damage to nagash who was in cover, so it's pretty powerful -Flamers: my old crutch. there was a time when I was taking 18 in a game, but they're way to expensive now. Keep some room in your list so you can summon them. Probably only 200 points so you can drop 3, but it's great to nail a lightly armored character. turn 1: deploy caster at front lines, summon 3 flamers 18 inches forward, then let them shoot 18 inches at whatever hero you need to alpha strike. 10 shots 4s/3s/d3 should do it on a 5+ save hero, on a 4+ it's a bit of a gamble. they're also great vs hordes. -If you need more combat punch, add 3 varanguard. Again they're expenaive, but very tough and you can make them quite tzeentchy In general tzeentch are kind of bad right now, but what they do have are some decent demon units, fantastic heros, and some good defensive options and abilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warchief Varard Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 On Friday, September 02, 2016 at 1:02 AM, Nico said: Slaughterbrute is junk - has barely any rend. 4+ save. Slow. Embarrassing. All Chaos riderless monsters are bad. i think the Khorgoraths are pretty good deal for 80pts never saw why they get so much hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedimasterwiggy Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 To the original poster can you give an idea of what style of competitiveness you're going to be playing at. I'm playing in a friend group each week where your list would fit well but compared with some of the lists I have read from tournaments they would prove painful. Are you looking to get a list up to a certain points value or just a collection? As someone who has played a lot with Slaves lists I would echo some of the comments in general in the chaos sections that they can do OK against lower save, horde style armies but I would say struggle to dent armies with lots of 3+, 2+ saves. Chosen for me have proven to be the best killers by quite a margin, using units of 10 or 15 ideally getting a buff through spells too. Slightly related for the rules question gang, for the gift of change kairos spell, would you have to pay points for any spawns created by this spell in matched play games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witchhammer92 Posted September 4, 2016 Author Share Posted September 4, 2016 Definitely not super-competitive. I'd just be playing casual games at the local club. Competitive to the point of not getting smashed every game and being put off the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedimasterwiggy Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Similar to me then, from my experience some rough ideas from your top list: - Put 20 of the warriors together. I've found that if you take a minimum size unit then they often are effective for a turn and that's it, two 'picks' as it were allow you to have effectiveness through a chunk of the game and benefit more from boosts like mystic shield and if you have three together then you probably should be basing your game around that unit. This is only up to 1K and 1.5K games so it's probably different higher up. A unit of 10 warriors with halberds are OK as a unit to sit back and hold stuff without dying quickly, their reduced combat effectiveness is somewhat balanced by the range allowing them all to strike. Lance's on the knights would be good too as there are several units who get a defense boost if the attack has no rend or is 1 damage and this would allow the knights to bypass those defenses on the the charge. Any of that of any help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Yes - you have to pay for the spawns. Amongst their many flaws, Corgis don't get cover saves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedimasterwiggy Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Had a feeling that you would have to pay for spawn. Does this also apply then to the lord of chaos that if he dies you'd have to pay to replace him with spawn or if he killed enemy general you'd have to pay for a prince? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digdug Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 I would think that you wouldn't. You're not summoning a new model; the language states for the ability that you are "replacing" the Lord of Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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