Exceeding the 1/4 stormcast allocation...

[Kirby]

I recently picked up one of the Warriors of the Great Cities: Anvilgard boxes. 

Im aware that its not a very competitive set up, but it doesnt appear to be match play legal out-of-the-box because there are 7 units, 2 of which are Stormcast.

 

According to the CoS battletome:

“1 in every 4 units in a Cities of Sigmar army can be a <STORMCAST ETERNALS> unit.  Those units gain the <CITIES OF SIGMAR> keyword and the city keyword chosen for your army.” (Stormkeeps, CoS, p63)

 

Can i set the Lord-Vexillor as an ally in order to overcome the 1/4 rule? The only negative seems to that i would missout on a second Artefact if i chose Anvilgard: Black Market Bounties for my Battle Trait.

 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Anvilgard (Illicit Dealings: Hidden Agents)
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Black Ark Fleetmaster (60)
- General
- Command Trait: Blackfang Crimelord  
- Artefact: Drakescale Cloak  
Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Meteoric Standard
- City Role: General's Adjutant 
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Black Ark Corsairs (80)
- Vicious Blade & Repeater Handbow
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
10 x Black Ark Corsairs (80)
- Vicious Blade & Wicked Cutlass
1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)
Kharibdyss (170)

Units
10 x Judicators (320)
- Skybolt Bows

Battalions
Realm Reavers (150)

Total: 1040 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 120 / 400
Wounds: 68
 

[Rune]

Naa sorry. If you ally one in, it will still have the Stormcast keyword, and thus break the limit. You can't have more than 1/4.

 

 

[zilberfrid]

Do note that the "wariors of the great cities" boxes predate the Cities book quite a bit. At least one of the kits in them is no longer an option (general on horse, with pistol, war banner or shield)

[Kirby]

6 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Do note that the "wariors of the great cities" boxes predate the Cities book quite a bit. At least one of the kits in them is no longer an option (general on horse, with pistol, war banner or shield)

Yeah,  i was aware of this.   No problems in the Anvilgard box luckily.    All up-to-date, and I wanted everything in there ^^

7 hours ago, Rune said:

Naa sorry. If you ally one in, it will still have the Stormcast keyword, and thus break the limit. You can't have more than 1/4.

Guess I’ll have drop the battalion and pick up a battlemage for the time being. That will give me a 2/8 SE ratio and take me in under 1000pts too~~
 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Anvilgard (Illicit Dealings: Hidden Agents)
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Black Ark Fleetmaster (60)
- General
- Command Trait: Blackfang Crimelord  
- Artefact: Drakescale Cloak  
Battlemage (90)
- Lore of Dark Sorcerery: Vitriolic Spray
- Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Meteoric Standard

Battleline
10 x Black Ark Corsairs (80)
- Vicious Blade & Repeater Handbow
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
10 x Black Ark Corsairs (80)
- Vicious Blade & Wicked Cutlass
1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)
Kharibdyss (170)

Units
10 x Judicators (320)
- Skybolt Bows

Total: 980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 73
 

[Evantas]

Are you even able to take Realm Reavers Battalion in COS?  

I'm not aware that you can take battalions other than the ones printed in the army book. 

[Kirby]

3 hours ago, Evantas said:

Are you even able to take Realm Reavers Battalion in COS?  

I'm not aware that you can take battalions other than the ones printed in the army book. 

I assume so.  There is nothing in the core rules to suggest you can’t.  

Realm Reavers is in the original Order book, and is listed in GHB 2019.  So, I thought it was okay for matched play.

Can anyone show me to the contrary 🧐

I expect the battalion will leave GHB this year, however.  Charrwind Beasthunters from CoS seems to be a (rather lacklustre imho) replacement.
 

 

[readercolin]

The Realm Reavers battalion is not a Cities of Sigmar battalion.  This means that you can take it, but all units in the battalion are no longer counted as Cities of Sigmar, because they take the allegience of the battalion, which is grand alliance order.  This means that the battalion and all units inside of it have to fit into your allies allotment (basically, not happening).  For a more thorough discussion on this, I recommend this thread: 

 

 

[Kirby]

6 hours ago, readercolin said:

The Realm Reavers battalion is not a Cities of Sigmar battalion.  This means that you can take it, but all units in the battalion are no longer counted as Cities of Sigmar, because they take the allegience of the battalion, which is grand alliance order.  This means that the battalion and all units inside of it have to fit into your allies allotment (basically, not happening).  For a more thorough discussion on this, I recommend this thread: 

 

 

Thanks 🙏🏻

For the benefit of any future searchs.  The core book FAQ Designer’s Commentary, p10 addresses this.

In my case, Realm Reavers is a Scourge Privateers battalion in the GA Order book.  So, it can be used freely in a SP allegiance or GA Order allegiance army.  How if i wish to use it in a Cities of Sigmar allegiance the whole battalion and all it’s units count as allies.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Kirby

[zilberfrid]

24 minutes ago, Kirby said:

Thanks 🙏🏻

For the benefit of any future searchs.  The core book FAQ Designer’s Commentary, p10 addresses this.

In my case, Realm Reavers is a Scourge Privateers battalion in the GA Order book.  So, it can be used freely in a SP allegiance or GA Order allegiance army.  How if i wish to use it in a Cities of Sigmar allegiance the whole battalion and all it’s units count as allies.

To make matters worse, Scourge Privateers are not allies of Cities, so you can't take them at all. Neither are Stormcast, or Kharadron in TE, or Sylvaneth in LC.

GW really doesn't want Cities to have choices, by setting the realm and only allowing one batallion.

[dekay]

If you want some battalion benefits, you're 10 corsairs away from being able to field Charrwind Beasthunters from CoS book. Won't fit in your current 1000 points without some rebuilding, but it's something to think about when developing the army further. It's not particularily good battalion, but hey, lower drops, extra command point, artifact and curse. Battalion ability is pretty situational, but not bad, too. Its basically realm reavers 2.0, but it can fit more Scourgerunners in, which is always a plus ; )

Edited June 30, 2020 by dekay

[Kirby]

Thanks for the feedback. 
 

8 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

... Scourge Privateers are not allies of Cities, so you can't take them at all. Neither are Stormcast, or Kharadron in TE, or Sylvaneth in LC.

GW really doesn't want Cities to have choices, by setting the realm and only allowing one batallion.

I get it. But, SP  have always been a outlier faction. Im not going to get too hung up on a single battalion that could disappear with next weeks new GHB. 🤷

Tbh, It kinds of makes sense to me that we can’t ally in units that are already a part of the faction.  GW may have  produced weakened Cos battalions deliberately in order to limit the possibilty of OP multifaction soup.  There is a trade-off: a vast range of units vs factional synergies.

If we compare CoS with LoN - an all encompassing soup that contained most of the Death GA - CoS could feel restrictive.  But i guess they just werent designed that way. 
 

2 hours ago, dekay said:

If you want some battalion benefits, you're 10 corsairs away from being able to field Charrwind Beasthunters from CoS book. Won't fit in your current 1000 points without some rebuilding, but it's something to think about when developing the army further. It's not particularily good battalion, but hey, lower drops, extra command point, artifact and curse. Battalion ability is pretty situational, but not bad, too. Its basically realm reavers 2.0, but it can fit more Scourgerunners in, which is always a plus ; )

Yeah,  i will definitely be picking up some more.  So Charrwind Raiders will be an option.    I want to build a group of Order Serpentis too.  So, SC Anvilguard will cover my bases for a  drakespawn  chariot and hydra too. 😀

Maybe  the Scourge Privateer will seem super effective when compared with Order Serpentis!!!

In the end, my corsairs and drakespawn may well get steamrollered by their new Lumineth cousins, but the will look awesome while they drop like flies .  

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Kirby

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Kirby said:

Thanks for the feedback. 
 

I get it. But, SP  have always been a outlier faction. Im not going to get too hung up on a single battalion that could disappear with next weeks new GHB. 🤷

Tbh, It kinds of makes sense to me that we can’t ally in units that are already a part of the faction.  GW may have  produced weakened Cos battalions deliberately in order to limit the possibilty of OP multifaction soup.  There is a trade-off: a vast range of units vs factional synergies.

If we compare CoS with LoN - an all encompassing soup that contained most of the Death GA - CoS could feel restrictive.  But i guess they just werent designed that way. 
 

Yeah,  i will definitely be picking up some more.  So Charrwind Raiders will be an option.    I want to build a group of Order Serpentis too.  So, SC Anvilguard will cover my bases for a  drakespawn  chariot and hydra too. 😀

Maybe  the Scourge Privateer will seem super effective when compared with Order Serpentis!!!

In the end, my corsairs and drakespawn may well get steamrollered by their new Lumineth cousins, but the will look awesome while they drop like flies .  

It could be that GW curtailed COS preemptively, but in doing so I think they took too much.

Locking realms and limiting options to a single battalion isn't the most interesting of designs.

[dekay]

18 hours ago, Kirby said:

Yeah,  i will definitely be picking up some more.  So Charrwind Raiders will be an option.    I want to build a group of Order Serpentis too.  So, SC Anvilguard will cover my bases for a  drakespawn  chariot and hydra too. 😀

Maybe  the Scourge Privateer will seem super effective when compared with Order Serpentis!!!

Good news is: 1. There were several Serpentis based lists doing good in tournaments, so not all is lost (and maybe new GHB will drop the Knights point cost a bit more..). You just have to accept that it's the dreadlords and chariots that deal damage, while knights are more of a mobile anvil unit. While they lack punch to fight elite units, they're pretty tough for their cost and fast enough to secure objectives.

2. Privateers are good. Scourgerunner is one of the best CoS units period and lists fielding them in large numbers are doing very well in competitive setting. Monsters are not bad, and corsairs themselves are very cheap and extremely buff receptive. It's a shame they're basically a horde unit and can be expected to die and large numbers, but that doesn't make them bad in any way. 

I'm sure you'll make something strong out of these units. It might not be a 'press button to win' army, but properly used it won't be auto steamrolled by newer factions.