kryptman Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) Hey guys! Age of Sigmar Freshman here, starting out with Nighthaunt at 2000 points. I‘m going to play in a very competitive environment, so I want to get the most out of my attempt. Due to the fact I‘m pretty new to the game (not to tabletop or competitive play in general), I will definitly need some help. Some facts beforehand: - I want to stay with the Nighthaunt for now and not playing as Legion of Grief. Nagash allies could be a thing though - It‘s not all about winning (i.e. copycat lists). I rather enjoy the process of getting the most out of an army over time - I have played only one game so far, so I‘m lacking practical experience in general and probably even basic skills. However, this is a huge part when it comes to building proper lists. So keep this in mind: anything I come up with now, is based on pure theorycrafting after reading the battletome Spoiler ++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Death - Nighthaunt) [2,000pts] ++ + Leader + Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern [140pts]: 3. Beacon of Nagashizzar, 6. Spectral Tether, Chill Blade Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief [220pts]: 3. Lifestealer Spirit Torment [120pts] + Battleline + Chainrasp Horde [280pts]: 4x 10 Chainrasps Grimghast Reapers [160pts]: 10 Grimghast Reapers Grimghast Reapers [160pts]: 10 Grimghast Reapers Grimghast Reapers [160pts]: 10 Grimghast Reapers + Battalion + Battalion: Shroudguard [730pts] . Bladegheist Revenants: 2x 5 Bladegheist Revenants . Bladegheist Revenants: 4x 5 Bladegheist Revenants . Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed: 6. Ruler of the Spirit Host, General . . 5. Midnight Tome: 5. Shademist + Malign Sorcery + Endless Spell: Prismatic Palisade [30pts] ++ Total: [2,000pts] ++ The Shroudguard will be my core force. The Knight of Shrouds is buffed up by his trait, ability and artefact to make the Bladegheist Revenants even more durable. The Spirit Torment is boosting their offensive output. Grimghast Reapers strike out of reserve, harassing the opponent in his deployment zone and/or contest objectives Lady Olynder is backed up by my Chainrasp Horde and the Guardian of Souls. Prismatic Pallisade for extra protection. So what do you think? For me (the noob) this sounds like a solid approach. I know, Nighthaunt is not top tier right now, but as I mentioned before, this is not about winning at all costs. It‘s more about creating a proper list that could work in general. Would be awesome if you could spare some thoughts about the list and point out its weaknesses or some possible improvements. Thanks in advance! Edited January 3, 2020 by kryptman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabbbio Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Hi! Other noob here, I'll follow your post. In the while, my 2 cents: You can choose only 1 artifact in your whole list. If you add batallions you can add 1 extra artifact per batallion. In this case you have 1 batallion but 3 artifacts, you should remove 1 One clarification: when you write "4x5" do you mean 4 units of five or 1 of 20? I ask because you listed the grimghast separately instead. BTW if it's the latter then just write "1x20". Sorry for being a little detail focused but it was just to be sure Now to the meat (note that I'm a noob too, so I may be wrong) : I wouldn't give chill blade to Gos since he's not meant to stay in combat. Since it looks like u're using small units i think you won't need the beacon either. I think I would give him the wychlight lantern to reliable cast and soul cage as spell to block the enemy activation. See ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thamalys Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 @kryptman, glad to hear you have picked the Nighthaunt (NH) as your entry ticket to the awesomeness of Age of Sigmar. The one piece of advice I feel worth sharing even before going into your list is: "stick with them". NH are not an easy faction to play with: they require very careful positioning (the best example of this is the infamous "wholly within" wording that cripples many of our abilities), they don't deal much damage and they die rather quickly (despite being ethereal). Finally, as opposed to most (but not all) Death armies, once summonable units are gone, they're gone for good. No bringing them back with one CP (which is why LoG is much "simpler" to play). In a nutshell: it's a very tough place to start, but if you enjoy the challenge it's also a great place to start! I said "stick with them" because I found that it took me a long while to start winning games with them. You really have to commit to a list and learn how to make the best out of it, and with NH the only way forward is playing the list and slowly refining the way you play, especially movement wise - with the additional layer of complexity given by "From the Underworld they Come". Now, the list: On 1/3/2020 at 1:46 PM, Fabbbio said: You can choose only 1 artifact in your whole list. If you add batallions you can add 1 extra artifact per batallion. In this case you have 1 batallion but 3 artifacts, you should remove 1 @Fabbbio, the Chill Blade is not an artefact, is one of the two weapons available to a Guardian of Souls (GoS) - as such, @kryptman's list is perfectly legal. I very much agree with the suggestion of swapping the Beacon with the Lantern, though; +1 to cast is very useful to get your spells off. Speaking of which, I'd put Spectral Tether onto Lady Olynder, as she has the potential to actually withstand some damage, as opposite to your GoS. You simply want to keep him out of trouble, shooting and mortal wounds included - he won't last a single turn. I'd give Shademist to your GoS instead - probably the best spell we have, -1 to wound his huge and with the Lantern you'll cast it on a 5+; awesome. I know you have it on your Spirit Torment already, but it's such a goos spell... Soul Cage would be my next pick. Keep in mind that Lifestealer is tougher to cast then Spectral Tether and you need an enemy to deal mortal wounds to... so always pick Spectral Tether instead of Lifestealer, I'd say. Then: your choice of battlelines is a bit peculiar. I imagine you're trying to maximise the occurrence of a Wave of Terror? I wouldn't do that at all, especially with Chainrasps and Reapers: the strength of these units is in their numbers. Remember, they don't come back. 10 damage? Almost anything in AoS can dish that out in a single turn. I'd probably go for 2 X 20 Chainrasps and 1 x 30 Reapers (which will get you some spare points as well!). Similar thing with your battallion: your are paying the somehow hefty price of the Shroudguard to give a 5+ instead of a 6+ shrug to only 10 revenants?! No way - 2 units of 10 is what you want, perhaps two of 20 even. Wave of Terror is not something you can/should rely on. It's a bonus, not a given. What's a given is that small units get wiped out very easily indeed - and they don't come back in NH. The Palisade is a nice touch. Finally, you're not leveraging the Dreadblade Harrow + Spectral Summons combo (which I find to be THE most amazing feature of NH) - I'm not saying you should, but think about it... moving 30 Reapers on the other side of the board for 1 CP, perhaps escaping a dangerous matchup and placing them on a precious objective instead? Yes please! AoS is all about the objectives and as such movement is key. This is our true strength. You will never table your opponent with a NH army. In fact, most times you win you would have been tabled by the end of the 5th battleround - but because we can move around so much, we can be clever about it a clutch a victory. It's almost always close with good opponents. We don't just go and kill - NH are for the discerning player. Hope this helps - and please do stick with your squishy ghost for long enough to start appreciating them! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkycloud Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 @kryptman similar to @Thamalys I'd like to confirm that NH are not easy to play and win consistently with, with many believing them to be a low tier army. You're going to need to play the game and not get caught up in who can kill most game. I personally favour fast armies that don't really engage unless odds are stacked. For this nighthaunt are perfect as they have potentially the best movement in the game. Dreadblade general, fell wind pennant and cogs really lean into this.I In your list i'd personally decrease dreadblade unit sizes (1" reach means units of 10 are more efficient) reapers should probably be in units of 20+. I'd also change KoS to vamp, better ability and already a wizard. I also can't recommend coach enough, it's a massive distraction piece and looks cool. Get some games in and tinker with a list that works for u. Good luck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kryptman Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 Hello again. Did really apprichiate your thoughts, guys! Helped me already a lot! @Thamalys I’ve got your point and I’m totaly in to this challange! That’s how I enjoy playing the tabletop in general. So it’s more about movement and maneuverability than dealing damage, alright. Due to that fact, I will sureley make some tweeks. You mentioned my Shroudguard: The list contains 20 and 10 Revenents, not 4 groups of 5 Revenents and 1 of 10. Probably a misunderstanding cause I used Battlescribe for creating the list (the last time though. 40k habit). So here is a second try. I did include the Dreadblade and restructured my Battleline. This forced me to cut on the Revenants. I also switched the KoS for Reikenor and dropped the Endless Spell. Not sure about that move. I also got one artefact left. Spoiler Allegiance: NighthauntLeadersDreadblade Harrow (90)- General- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit HostsGuardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Wychlight LanternLady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (200)- Lore of the Underworlds: Spectral TetherSpirit Torment (120)Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul CageBattleline30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)Units10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)BattalionsShroudguard (110)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 123 However, alternatively I could bring 20 Reapers and 20 and 10 Revenants and switch the KoS/Reikenor back again (and still lose the Endless Spell). Furthermore: Do I really need the Shroudguard Battalion? What about adding a Chainguard instead (already have the units for it in the list). The list could look like this: Spoiler Allegiance: NighthauntLeadersDreadblade Harrow (90)- General- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit HostsGuardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Wychlight LanternLady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (200)- Lore of the Underworlds: Spectral TetherSpirit Torment (120)Battleline30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)Units10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)BattalionsChainguard (120)Total: 1840 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 116 This way I would have more units to shift around with the Dreadblade Harrow (the Revenants don't need to stick with the KoS) and have 160pts left. @punkycloud What do you mean with fell wind pennant? The Chronomatic Cogs though sounds great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkycloud Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Fell wind is a NH artifact that increases movement by 3" to units whole within 12" of the character that has it, best artifact in the NH book 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thamalys Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, kryptman said: So here is a second try. I did include the Dreadblade and restructured my Battleline. This forced me to cut on the Revenants. I also switched the KoS for Reikenor and dropped the Endless Spell. Not sure about that move. I also got one artefact left. In my opinion, the only reason why you'd want to consider Reikenor is his +3 to cast, which is typically leveraged to cast the Chronomantic Cogs on a 4+, making them quite a reliable cast. It's an investment, but depending on the list it could be worth it. A mounted Knight of Shrouds (KoS) with an artefact such as the Balefire Blade dishes out way more damage than Reikenor - the latter, however, is a caster with a decent anti-horde spell. So your choice is a valid one - I'd probably opt for a mounted KoS, though, as he can give the Revenants that clutch +1 attack each for a Command Point. In fact, I'd say the biggest problem of our named heroes is that they are much worse as support heroes if compared with the non-named ones. 1 hour ago, kryptman said: Furthermore: Do I really need the Shroudguard Battalion? No, not really. The Chainguard is probably a better option. A 5+ shrug looks very solid on paper, but the problem is that our Revenants are supposed to go against the opponent's elite units - which will wipe our Revenants out whether they have a 5+ or a 6+ shrug. Those points could be used to add the Cogs in or some more bodies even. I like your second list the most - in terms of strength. The reason why I don't personally play Chainrasps is because I can't be bothered to buy and paint 40/80 tiny models to a decent standard Re: the missing artefact: @punkycloud's suggestion is good - I personally don't like it too much, but many people swear by it so it must be good. Thing is: either you make good use of screens, or you deep strike via From the Underworld they Come, hence +3 movement is good but not great, especially taking into account the fact that the whole of our army flies, which is usually enough to outmanouver most opponents. My favourite Nighthaunt artefacts: the Midnight Tome on a Spirit Torment and the Balefire Blade on a mounted KoS. The Gryph-feather Charm on your squishy Dreadblade Harrow is also an option (flat -1 to hit? Yes please) to make it more durable, as shooting is now a serious threat in AoS. In any case, your lists are definitely in the right ballpark for playing "competitive" Nighthaunt: good mobility, a decent number of bodies... the two things I'd work on (obviusly it's always a case of compromising... 2000 pts are not that many after all!) would be (1.) screens/chaff. Our "heavy" hitters are all glass cannons: whether you get the charge first with your Reapers or Revenants would make the difference between wiping out that enemy unit or your units instead. Screens (Spirit Hosts and Chainrasps are my favourite, with the former being actual threats because of their mortal wounds output and the latter because of how cheap they are) are key to ensure the charges go off at the right time - coupled with the fact we fly, that makes for a powerful tool in our Nighthaunt box. (2.) A distraction piece, tanky enough to survive 2 or 3 battlerounds even in combat and killy enough to worry your opponent, so as to having them focusing on said piece as opposed to your expensive, squishy units. I'll be running a Mourngul in my next list: now that the Black Coach went down in points one could argue that it's not worth it, but if you pair a Mourngul with a Spirit Torment (ideally equipped with a Midnight Tome) you have a -1 to hit bubble coupling with some decent healing power for both and a very useful re-rolling hits of 1. A Mortarch (my favourite for Nighthaunt is Neferata) can also work, but 340 pts is too much of an investment in my view. Final thought: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts is good with 1-wound models, but it's downright outrageous with Spirit Hosts, allowing you to return as many as 9 wounds on the table for free. Given that you have quite a few bodies in your list, investing in a very tanky section of Spirit Hosts + Dreadblade Harrow could be an idea. But again, everyone, myself included, has a very biased opinion about what a list should look like, so take all of the above with a grain of salt! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kryptman Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) I think I'm getting closer to execute some orders now. Much appreciate your writing, thanks a lot again! @Thamalys Still, some further questions" came up. What about the combo Gryph-feather Charm + Cloaked in Shadow on the Dreadblade Harrow? He's kinda key, as you all have referred. This way he would get additional protection. Or is Ruling of the Spirit Hosts better, regardless of fielding the actual Spirit Hosts? But besides all those Artefacts, Traits and Spells the different units can get. The models for their own will make the army, everything else is more or less changeable and will most definitly vary from now and then, while I make my first experiences. So in the end, after a little shopping excess, I will call following units my own (and not all of them have to be bought) : - Lady Olynder - Dreadblade Harrow, 2x - Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed - Guardian of Souls - Lord Executioner - Spirit Torment - Chainrasp Horde, 40x - Grimghast Reapers, 20x - Hexwraiths, 5x - Spirit Hosts; 3x - Bladegheist Revenants, 20x - Black Coach (indeed, it looks pretty cool! @punkycloud 😊) - Malign Sorcery Endless Spells From that point, to buy another 10-30 Spirit Hosts, Hexwraiths, Revenants or Stalkers etc. won't be a big step. 😅 I think this is more than a solid starting point. Finally, another list: Spoiler Allegiance: NighthauntMortal Realm: GhurLeadersDreadblade Harrow (90)- General- Trait: Cloaked in Shadow- Artefact: Gryph-feather CharmLady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (200)- Lore of the Underworlds: Spectral TetherGuardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Wychlight LanternSpirit Torment (120)Battleline20 x Grimghast Reapers (320)20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)Units10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)BehemothsBlack Coach (220)BattalionsChainguard (120)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsChronomantic Cogs (80)Prismatic Palisade (30)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 114 Edited January 7, 2020 by kryptman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.