spectral summons - nighthaunt

[GlitzFan]

 

Can the general teleport himself with this command ability?
I think yes. 

[King Taloren]

Since the general has to be removed from the table and then placed within 12” of themselves. The general is now stuck in the void because the general cannot be placed within 12” themselves if they are not on the table.

[AverageBoss]

In theory you could, but he would be an instant casualty, as after he is removed from the table, there is no way to place him any longer.

[King Taloren]

The problem here is that.

1. You must remove the unit/model first.

if the general is removed from the table, he no longer exists in the battlefield. Essentially for the brief moment between step 1 and 2 he is in reserve. 

2. Then set up 12” from the General keeping 9” away from enemies.

How do you set up a model 12” away from itself when it is not on the table?  We’re placing the argument that when a model is being set up it counts as being within range of itself, but is there precedent anywhere else that setup model count in such a way?

This ability is also not once per turn so potentially you can then redeploy several units and general across the entire map. Granted it’s not stupid powerful like some other abilities in armies. It just doesn’t feel like that is intended.

[AverageBoss]

Models don't count as being on the table until after they are deployed, and all conditions for placement must be met during the deployment of a model. Similarly, Chaos armies that summon heroes can't count the summoned heroes themselves as a focal point, they require another existing hero to meet placement conditions.

[darranh1]

The descriptive text on this ability reads "a NH commander can call his ghostly minions to his side wherever they may be" So it seems to be the ability is not intended to teleport the command him/herself but to call his minions to his side to aid him (or get out of a trouble combat as it is often played)

Edited June 11, 2019 by darranh1

[AverageBoss]

4 minutes ago, darranh1 said:

The descriptive text on this ability reads "a NH commander can call his ghostly minions to his side wherever they may be" So it seems to be the ability is not intended to teleport the command him/herself but to call his minions to his side to aid him (or get out of a trouble combat as it is often played)

Fluff text should never be used for a rules justification though. There are tons of abilities in the game that function differently than what their descriptions imply.

Edited June 11, 2019 by AverageBoss

[Isotop]

9 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

Models don't count as being on the table until after they are deployed, and all conditions for placement must be met during the deployment of a model. Similarly, Chaos armies that summon heroes can't count the summoned heroes themselves as a focal point, they require another existing hero to meet placement conditions.

The chaos summoning is a very good argument that my understanding should be wrong. However, speaking striclty from the rules of measurement, I do not see how you check wether the general is within 12" of itself before they are placed on the table (since we have to measure from their base).

Edited June 8, 2019 by Isotop

[Isotop]

On 6/7/2019 at 8:08 AM, AverageBoss said:

In theory you could, but he would be an instant casualty, as after he is removed from the table, there is no way to place him any longer.

 

On 6/7/2019 at 5:12 PM, King Taloren said:

Since the general has to be removed from the table and then placed within 12” of themselves. The general is now stuck in the void because the general cannot be placed within 12” themselves if they are not on the table.

I disagree. I think you can place the general anywhere (outside of 9" from enemy models) - here is my explanation: To check wether a model A is within a certain range of another model B , we have to measure from base A to base B. There is no way we can check wether the general using Spectral Summons is wholly within 12" of itself (A and B being identical in this case) before we place the model on the table. It is kind of the same for the "more than 9" from enemy models" condition: sure, we are using pre-measurements in order to save time, but the "final" check is ultimately done measuring from base-to-base (albeit we can normally skip this step after a clean pre-measurement). Back to the genral using Spectral Summons on itself: After the model is put down (which we have to do in order to measure distances from and to it), it will always we wholly within 12" of itself. 

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by Isotop