Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[Gengis137]

I'm planning on trying something with the command trait that allows you to move after teleportation on a 4+ with durthu ^^


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[Jimbo]

I've always played this as if you are retreating from combat and therefore can't shoot or charge.

 

How do you guys play the Forest Spirits rule in relation to Battalions;  does the entire Battalion have to start in the hidden enclaves or can you choose some units within the Battalion to start on the board and some in the enclaves?  I play that it has to be the whole Battalion but I'd prefer it was the other way

jimbo

[Gengis137]

You can deploy the different units of a batalion however you want


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[Forestreveries]

I would say yes - it's a "set up" rule, rather than a "move", hence it's not a retreat. Of course once you teleport to another wood, you need to roll a 6 to be able to move again (but you can shoot and charge on a 9).
It should be spelled out in an FAQ. I know others are less confident about this.

I'm not sure that allowed due to the following wording.


It says you may remain stationary or retreat. This is neither of those things.
I played it that you could shoot / charge afterwards originally, but stopped doing so once this was pointed out to me.


Aaron.


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[Bowlzee]

1 hour ago, Forestreveries said:

I'm not sure that allowed due to the following wording.


It says you may remain stationary or retreat. This is neither of those things.
I played it that you could shoot / charge afterwards originally, but stopped doing so once this was pointed out to me.


Aaron.


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It's very specific about starting in the movement phase. So if you have a rule that moves a unit in the Hero phase then it won't count as retreating, as at the start of the movement phase, you are not within 3". So this will include the Forest Folk battalion, as you pick up the units in the hero phase etc.

[Forestreveries]

It's very specific about starting in the movement phase. So if you have a rule that moves a unit in the Hero phase then it won't count as retreating, as at the start of the movement phase, you are not within 3". So this will include the Forest Folk battalion, as you pick up the units in the hero phase etc.

Yeah I agree that hero phase movement is different. That is the intended benefit of Forest Folk after all, though there are more aggressive applications as@nico and I have discussed in detail! [emoji48]

Aaron


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[Nico]

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It says you may remain stationary or retreat. This is neither of those things. 

I'm not sure that this follows. The whole point about special rules is that they allow you to do things you normally cannot do (cf. charging/shooting even after running, setting up and charging in the opponent's charge phase). This one is a self-contained setup rule, if you meet the conditions within that rule (being near the Wyldwood), you should be able to do it. They could easily have said that you cannot do the move if you are within 3 inches of the enemy. By way of example, the Kunnin Rukk allows you to move a unit in the hero phase "if it is more than 3 inches away from the enemy", so they could readily have included such a restriction in the Navigate Realmroots rule to stop you from escaping combat via the woods and then shooting. This doesn't feel unfluffy either (in fact it's exactly what you would expect Sylvaneth to do) nor does it feel unbalanced (because of the 9 inch charge restriction). 

This isn't conclusive, but you would need an FAQ answer to prevent you from teleporting out of combat in this way. It would be a major change for you not to be able to Vexillor or Skitterleap out of combat (notwithstanding that these abilities happen in the hero phase).

[Mike McB]

I have a question re the Gnarlroot battalion wizards and how many spells do they get. I have had 2 different responses so i put the question to the group. can the wizards take deeplore spell plus the verdurous spell plus regular spell on warscroll

[Forestreveries]

I have a question re the Gnarlroot battalion wizards and how many spells do they get. I have had 2 different responses so i put the question to the group. can the wizards take deeplore spell plus the verdurous spell plus regular spell on warscroll

They get the spell on their warscroll, a single deepwood spell, Verdurous Harmony, and arcane Bolt and mystic shield.

They can cast any two of those in a single turn.


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[scrubyandwells]

17 minutes ago, Forestreveries said:

They get the spell on their warscroll, a single deepwood spell, Verdurous Harmony, and arcane Bolt and mystic shield.

They can cast any two of those in a single turn.

 

And just in case: If you take Ranu's Lamentiri, the +2 to cast doesn't apply to Verdurous Harmony (but you do get +1 to cast), since Verdurous isn't a Deepwood Spell. 

[Gengis137]

Just to share experiences: I tried durthu with the command trait that allows him to move after a realmroot teleportation on a 4+ (6+ +2) works really great
He just blew two tempetors turn 1
I was playing 1500pts without free spirit batalion


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[Jimbo]

The Navigate Realmroot ability activates at the beginning of the movement phase therefore if you are within 3" of enemy at the start of the movement phase when it is activated, you can only remain stationary or retreat and can't charge or shoot.  Unless I am missing some wording somewhere....

 

 

[Nico]

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The Navigate Realmroot ability activates at the beginning of the movement phase therefore if you are within 3" of enemy at the start of the movement phase when it is activated, you can only remain stationary or retreat and can't charge or shoot.  Unless I am missing some wording somewhere....

That's one way to think about it - it's not clear. As it's a "deploy" rule and not a "move" rule, it doesn't smell like a retreat move to me. Compare this with Destruction's free move in the hero phase, which is a "move" and does (thankfully) clearly count as a retreat move that turn. 

[Jimbo]

I agree on Rampaging Destroyers and that Navigate Realmroots (NR) is not clear.

NR and 'retreat' both come into play at the start of the movement phase though i.e. at the same time.   Therefore,  if your model is within 3" of an enemy at the start of the movement phase both rules apply and to move, it can only retreat or remain stationary.  Retreat just says the model has to be at least 3" away from all enemy model than it started and then can't do anything else for that turn.  NR requires the mini to be placed at least 9" from enemy models so the positioning criteria of retreat is satisfied.

I think the crux of this is that NR is described as 'instead of moving normally'.

I'd really like to be able to move, shoot and charge after getting out of combat using NR but to me, the wording of the movement and NR rules doesn't allow it and it doesn't 'feel' right either.  Would gladly be proven (or ruled) wrong though!

[Nico]

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I'd really like to be able to move, shoot and charge after getting out of combat using NR but to me, the wording of the movement and NR rules doesn't allow it and it doesn't 'feel' right either.  Would gladly be proven (or ruled) wrong though! 

Realistically you will not get to charge unless you roll a 6 on the Navigate table or roll a 9 charge.

Strange it does feel "right" to me - to me this is exactly what Kurnoth Hunters with bows should be doing. They are probably the only unit that this really matters for. Tree Revenants can disappear off with another teleport rule, maybe a crippled Treelord Ancient could do this and then still shoot. Dryads aren't likely to want to get out of combat and be useless for a turn.

[Forestreveries]

I'd really like to be able to move, shoot and charge after getting out of combat using NR but to me, the wording of the movement and NR rules doesn't allow it and it doesn't 'feel' right either.  Would gladly be proven (or ruled) wrong though! 

Realistically you will not get to charge unless you roll a 6 on the Navigate table or roll a 9 charge.
Strange it does feel "right" to me - to me this is exactly what Kurnoth Hunters with bows should be doing. They are probably the only unit that this really matters for. Tree Revenants can disappear off with another teleport rule, maybe a crippled Treelord Ancient could do this and then still shoot. Dryads aren't likely to want to get out of combat and be useless for a turn.

I was using it on Alarielle to leave combat then charge the same unit to do extra mortal
Wounds before I reread the retreat rules that I posted above and decided to not play it that way.


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[Nico]

That seems like a challenging plan unless you rock at rolling 9 charges. You also cannot teleport to a different part of the same Wyldwood. 

[Forestreveries]

That seems like a challenging plan unless you rock at rolling 9 charges. You also cannot teleport to a different part of the same Wyldwood. 

Wasn't my entire battleplan or anything, just situation came up a few times. Usually the primary intention was to reposition but still fight the same unit.

Also, I know you can't teleport from and to the same wood, I've pointed it out multiple times here myself and have expressed my belief that for the most part multiple woods are better than large woods, citing this as a reason for that.


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[Korazell]

I've been reading this thread and I think it's been fantastic but I'm a little hesitant. I'm a death player and super sad about my lack of actual vampire models so I'm looking elsewhere until I can field my legion of bloodsuckers effectively. I want to play with the trees but the models I want to use seem to be at odds with each other...

 

I want to play Alarielle and Drycha for sure. I like casting spells, I like the looks of the Spite-revenants but they seem to have fallen short on a glance and by the threads findings. Is there anything that anyone can suggest that has been somewhat effective? I keep on fighting Stormcast and Ironjawz, so something that can handle them would be ideal.

 

Thanks!

[Nico]

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Also, I know you can't teleport from and to the same wood, I've pointed it out multiple times here myself and have expressed my belief that for the most part multiple woods are better than large woods, citing this as a reason for that. 

Sorry - you do know the army well. That's a good point as the instinct is to slam down 3 bases at once, but in some games, you'll look back and regret doing so. It's going to be interesting to see how the meta develops in terms of how much Wyldwood spam we see. Multiple small Wyldwoods also means more concentrated Roused by Magic damage.

Another thing I've seen is using lines of adjacent Wyldwood bases to block Stonehorns from crossing them at all (even on the overpowered micro-bases they come on they still don't fit between the trunks) - ultimately creating a little play pen for the Stonehorn and then shooting it with Kurnoth Hunters for fun.

[Jimbo]

Kurnoth Hunters. They can deal with most things pretty well. You get to choose between long range (bows) or short range (swords or scythes) weaponry. Good save which can get rerolled if you don't more and they get to a chance to stomp mortal wounds at the end of the combat phase. All round goodness.

[Nico]

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I want to play Alarielle and Drycha for sure. 

It would be very difficult to host both of these in one 2,000 point list. Taking both would also probably mean not taking another Treelord which means you are sacrificing the strongest artefacts (only BCR can get away with spending 1,200 points or more on monsters and special characters in tournaments in my view). I would focus on one of the two at first, here is an Alarielle list (buried within this thread):

Alarielle Spell fest!

 

Gnarlroot Wargrove 80

 

Household 20

Treelord Ancient (Briarsheath, Regrowth, Verdurous Harmony, level 2 wizard) 300

Branchwych (Verdant Blessing, Verdurous Harmony, Ranu's Lamentiri, level 2 wizard) 100

5 Tree Revenants 100

 

600

 

Alarielle (General, Throne of Vines, Verdurous Harmony) 620

Loremaster 100

10 Dryads 120

5 Tree Revenants 100

 

940

 

3 Kurnoth Hunters (Bows) 180

3 Kurnoth Hunters (Scythes) 180

Branchwych (Silverwood Circlet, The Reaping, Verdurous Harmony) 100

 

460

 

2,000

 

You have got 9 spells here I think. Alarielle has to do a lot of heavy lifting here - the key thing will be for you to stop your enemy from focus firing her. As long as she doesn't die between your hero phases you can keep healing her up. 

[Nico]

As Jimbo said - Kurnoth Hunters are your go-to choice and also synergise well with Alarielle's healing. They are great in cover against Ironjawz in particular. Starsoul Maces are less fun for you. Try keeping stuff off the board until he has committed his Paladins.

[Forestreveries]

Also, I know you can't teleport from and to the same wood, I've pointed it out multiple times here myself and have expressed my belief that for the most part multiple woods are better than large woods, citing this as a reason for that. 

Sorry - you do know the army well. That's a good point as the instinct is to slam down 3 bases at once, but in some games, you'll look back and regret doing so. It's going to be interesting to see how the meta develops in terms of how much Wyldwood spam we see. Multiple small Wyldwoods also means more concentrated Roused by Magic damage.
Another thing I've seen is using lines of adjacent Wyldwood bases to block Stonehorns from crossing them at all (even on the overpowered micro-bases they come on they still don't fit between the trunks) - ultimately creating a little play pen for the Stonehorn and then shooting it with Kurnoth Hunters for fun.



#RespectTheTrees


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[Nico]

Quote

I've been asked if rules that let you 'move as if it were the movement phase' and similar actions are allowed full scope as if it was the actual movement phase.  The answer is no.  

E.G. A Sylvaneth unit that has the ability to move in the hero phase (as if it were the movement phase) would be allowed to make a move.  

It WOULD NOT be allowed to walk the hidden paths, or to transport to the table from being deployed off the table.  These would both require it to be the actual movement phase, not just making a move as if it were.

This is Ben Curry's house rule for Blood & Glory. I'm posting this here in case anyone is using any of the relevant formations and attending that event.

Should this be an indication of GW's official view (e.g. what might arise in a new FAQ), then this would kill off a whole swathe of alpha strike lists - the Spirit of Durthu would be borderline unplayable at 400 points.