Congratz Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 IS Bretonnia even still worth it? atm im making them into night haunt Would just like to know, cuz rip the lady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davariel Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Short answer: it depends which units you're talking about. Overall, pretty much everything was weakened to varying degrees, and a lot of stuff is overpointed garbage, but there are still things you can work with as well if you're a true son/daughter of the Lady. Long answer: Heroes - sometimes a bit weaker, sometimes just different, (some are generic and can take traits and artefacts now) but all generally still solid for their points (the Enchantress in particular remains a steal). Biggest exception is the standard bearer, whose only bit of synergy is redundant with the Order allegiance ability you have to take anyway Knights - The shield nerf for all knights was a real kick in the teeth (re-roll saves of one on the charge must be about the weakest shield buff in AoS). Knights Errant and especially Knights of the Realm are bad off (the latter being about the same cost as Dragon Blades, but considerably worse) - they were overpriced before, they're more overpriced now, and their unit sizes are still hideously awkward. Questing Knights are almost unchanged and still great, Grails are a little more situational and unreliable but still very solid too (and they'll give Death opponents nightmares). Pegasus Knights meanwhile were nerfed to the point of being unplayable. Peasants - Hit hard with the nerf bat (with the exception of the Trebuchet which is almost the same). Lost almost all synergy (which has dire implications for the bowmen's 5+ to hit roll in particular), lost their unbinds and are generally much worse off than before. So in conclusion: Heroes and elites (Questing and Grail Knights) are still great. Battleline is a weakness, much as it was before, and peasants are virtually unplayable. However, you could still make a solid army by using Bret heroes and elite knights supported by generic Order battleline and perhaps other fast moving options (e.g. dracoths, aelf cavalry). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Conti Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 I think they're really good as a component of a mixed Order force. Lord on Pegasus is STILL awesome, probably my favorite scroll in the game. Grail Knights are still awesome. Trebuchets are fantastic artillery pieces. If you're going to run with an Order All-Star army, I think these guys are definite contenders for the list. I don't think an all-Bretonian force is really viable, but there's no allegiance ability for them, so who cares? Supplement with what you need from other factions throughout Order to make a real beater of a force. It's a serious consideration for me for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feadair Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I have been updating my lists (both 1k and 2k). Pegasus Knights in particular were hit hard and needed to go, but luckily you can use the models as Bretonnian Lords. The Enchantress (plus Damsel) and the Grail Knights are the heart of the lists. The Bretonnian Lord(s) are mobile and reasonably hard hitting objective grabbers, warmachine destroyers, and general annoyances. Freeguild Guards are a solid defensive base, which at 2k can also defend the Trebuchet. Any feedback would be appreciated. Bretonnia (Order Allegiance) 1000 Enchantress 160 General, Tenacious Bretonnian Lord on a Pegasus 140 Quicksilver Potion 10 Grail Knights 360 5 Grail Knights 180 2x10 Freeguild Guard 160 Sword & Shield Bretonnia (Order Allegiance) 2000 4x Bretonnian Lord on a Pegasus 560 One a General with Legendary Fighter and Quicksilver Potion Enchantress 160 Damsel on a Steed 100 2x10 Grail Knights 720 Field Trebuchet 220 3x10 Freeguild Guard 240 Sword & Shield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon10 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I'm thinking of the following list 3 x lords 1 x Bsb 1 x damsel 1 x enchantress 3 x 8 Knights of the realm 3 x 5 Grail Knights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerve Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 16 Men at arms 120 16 Men at arms 120 8 Knights Errant 200 5 Grail Knights 180 5 Grail Knights 180 5 Grail Knights 180 5 Grail Knights 180 Bretonnian Lord (Pegasus) 140 Bretonnian Lord (Pegasus) 140 Enchantress 160 King on Ippogriph 400 2000 -The King boost everyone -The Enchantress gets the reroll to Errants, so they hit on 2+, where the Grails on 2+ with rerolls. -You have 32 models for the objectives, expecially for the ones in your side of the field (Calvalry will charge, you need something to stay back, and that's a good amount of body). -You have different specialyzed units: the Errant are a lot, with no rend. They are good against hordes and big units. When the Grails should charges small units/elite units/Behemoth -With this combination of heroes, you're cover all your knights with boost and rerolls. Errants here are better because they'll hit as the Knights of the Realms, without being 9+, which means 1 choices, which means cheaper battleline choice. I tried to list full cavalry, but you need sometings that will stay on your objectives, and 2x16 models are fine for blocking/protect, makes barriers/ cover the 3" around an objective etc. And the Lords are the strongest pieces in your army! They're pretty cheap for what they are! Using Bretonnia only I think it's the best you can do. Yes it's a charge army, and you must direct your charges pretty well. Mixing with Order will be obviously better, you should need some firing power not only for it self, but because it helps to free your knights after a long CC: -Turn of charge. Impact. -Enemy is shredded but unfortunatelly some one resist. -You stay there. -In your next turn, you don't retreat. Just finish them with your fire, make Knights free to charge again. So you're not losing a turn of retreat. But in a solo Bretonnian army, you will use your heroes for multicharge and just try to crush your enemy on the charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch of Izalith Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 They are good if you play warhammer fantasy - which you should do because it's still a good game. It was only a bad game on the tournament scene which it was never designed for in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon10 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Yeah interesting arguments maybe il put couple blocks of foot soldiers in as battle line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stato Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 6:38 AM, Cerve said: 16 Men at arms 120 16 Men at arms 120 8 Knights Errant 200 5 Grail Knights 180 5 Grail Knights 180 5 Grail Knights 180 5 Grail Knights 180 Bretonnian Lord (Pegasus) 140 Bretonnian Lord (Pegasus) 140 Enchantress 160 King on Ippogriph 400 2000 My issue with lists like this is how do you survive combat. With the strength of many melee armies now you cant afford for them to hit you first, which means either having only a single combat to pick or hitting one hard target and the remaining combats against soft targets. If you hit 2 hard targets at the same time then in the second your attacking unit will likely be wiped when the opponent takes their activation in the combat phase. Multiple small units (MSU) is good for maneuverability but restricts how much hurt you can put down. Of course you need to be wary of going to big, especially with mounted models as the base size means any models stuck in the second rank (so to speak) do get a lance attack but lose their horse attack. I think 16 is probably too unwieldy but you always lose some anyway so maybe not. 5 is too small to hurt large or tough units IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerve Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 hour ago, stato said: My issue with lists like this is how do you survive combat. With the strength of many melee armies now you cant afford for them to hit you first, which means either having only a single combat to pick or hitting one hard target and the remaining combats against soft targets. If you hit 2 hard targets at the same time then in the second your attacking unit will likely be wiped when the opponent takes their activation in the combat phase. Multiple small units (MSU) is good for maneuverability but restricts how much hurt you can put down. Of course you need to be wary of going to big, especially with mounted models as the base size means any models stuck in the second rank (so to speak) do get a lance attack but lose their horse attack. I think 16 is probably too unwieldy but you always lose some anyway so maybe not. 5 is too small to hurt large or tough units IMO. You're pretty tought, and you have the Lords for helping you. Yes, of course you have to manage some losses, but you're hitting as a train and not so fragile as you can think. The only issue for this list, imho, is that you must not get stuck in combat, more than die for it. If you feel more comnfortable with 10 Grail it's fine, you can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon10 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Yeah interesting points but I want a full cav list I also think there are some good ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch of Izalith Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Blades of Khorne/Slaves to Darkness have pretty cool Cavalry builds. Marauders are the only cav units that brought over something similar to the warhammer fast cav rules so you can flee and still shoot etc. You can build just horses with chaos knights, chariots, marauder horsemen, mounted lords and sorcerors or you can mark everything Khorne and start adding in some juggers. I'm still working on Daughters of Khaine so I haven't even built any of the models - but thats one of the lists I'm going to look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.