Legion Of Azgorh Mega-Thread

[Brian888]

On 11/21/2016 at 9:42 AM, Louzi said:

May I ask why nobody is taking advantage of the Chaos Allegiance? As I understand it, there is no good synergyin the Legion itself.

Hi everyone, first time poster here in this forum.  I've taken quite a shine to the Legion lately, and this thread has been a God-send.  However, I noticed this comment, and I wanted to ask about it.  While it's true that the Legion doesn't have army-wide benefits like (for example) the Sylvaneth or the Disciples of Tzeentch, it seems to me that the Castellan offers an INCREDIBLE buff for everything Legion of Azgorh unit in the army.  As I read his Command Ability, yean, he has to be on the front line to make it work, but if he can essentially markerlight an enemy unit within 12" of him, then every Legion of Azgorh unit in the army gets +1 to wound against that unit, including the war machines!  And he can do it round after round (assuming he survives)!  I mean, that strikes me as an INCREDIBLE Command Ability in terms of force multiplication.  Am I misreading it, or has it been FAQ'd or something?

[Furious]

1 minute ago, Brian888 said:

Hi everyone, first time poster here in this forum.  I've taken quite a shine to the Legion lately, and this thread has been a God-send.  However, I noticed this comment, and I wanted to ask about it.  While it's true that the Legion doesn't have army-wide benefits like (for example) the Sylvaneth or the Disciples of Tzeentch, it seems to me that the Castellan offers an INCREDIBLE buff for everything Legion of Azgorh unit in the army.  As I read his Command Ability, yean, he has to be on the front line to make it work, but if he can essentially markerlight an enemy unit within 12" of him, then every Legion of Azgorh unit in the army gets +1 to wound against that unit, including the war machines!  And he can do it round after round (assuming he survives)!  I mean, that strikes me as an INCREDIBLE Command Ability in terms of force multiplication.  Am I misreading it, or has it been FAQ'd or something?

No that's right, works with shooting and in combat. It's really useful, for sure, when you have one target you really want to take down. 

To build on the "why take full Legion," Fireglaives and Ironsworn are only battleline with full Legion. They're great battleline for cheap, and the Legion does cover a lot of things one would desire for a full army, with the exception of speed...

[Brian888]

It pains me to no end that the Magma Dragon doesn't have the Chaos keyword.  It seems tailor-made for a Legion army, both rules-wise (it's a speedy, beefy hitter and gives you yet another bonus for fighting in the Realm of Fire) and thematically.

[Kaleb Daark]

6 minutes ago, Brian888 said:

It pains me to no end that the Magma Dragon doesn't have the Chaos keyword.  It seems tailor-made for a Legion army, both rules-wise (it's a speedy, beefy hitter and gives you yet another bonus for fighting in the Realm of Fire) and thematically.

This is true and one which I hope FW adresses with perhaps a new monstrous arcanum that allows us to take monsters while maintaining allegiance.  I feel the same way about Warmammoths and skin wolves not being able to take a god keyword, as taking skin wolves automatically knocks you down to chaos.

The problem we have is that currently the Legion is still a compendium warscroll not a battletome as such.  The Legion as Furious says has several advantages, but doesn't have the individual buff fest that the new armies do.  You need to look at the Legion as an entire entity rather than synergy pools.  The castellan however is just pure gold.  I always take him with Lord of War and another character with the crown.  his buff coupled with the crown and a standard bearer makes order and destruction armies very worried.  Witch elves and executioners hordes just aren't scary anymore.

[Furious]

I'd like to point out that the Castellan with the extra attack artifact and Lord of War on himself is a wrecking ball - 4 attacks, 2+/2+ -2 rend for three damage a piece? It's statistically likely you'll be putting out 12 wounds. It's super fun to tear through a unit of 30+ zombies within two turns - faster against low bravery enemies, too. Made a ton of Ard Boys take flight after slaying a fair amount, too.

[Kaleb Daark]

Castellan is just good old fashioned reliable goodness, and grossly underestimated by opponents until its too late.

[Furious]

Except when it's unreliable: I had a High Elf dragon on the ropes, like 13 wounds left or something, and I rolled three damn ones to hit. I wanted so much to see that little guy hack chunks out of that smarmy aelf trash... it was so disappointing.

[Browncoat89]

Hey guys!

I just found this thread and I loved it! I started my legion army a few months ago and just can't get enough. I have been looking for battle reports and stuff feature the LoA but they are hard to find so this was a lot of fun to catch up on. I have been centering my army around my artillery, I love it. I almost always run the full 4 artillery pieces in my 2000 point lists. Sometimes it leaves my line a little thin but I have squeezed them all in with the Blackshard Warhost too. I have usually been running two magma cannons and two dreadquake mortars but I agree with Ben's posts earlier on in the thread I have found the mortars to be really unreliable. I absolutely love the magma cannons and if I'm playing against one of the really competitive guys at my shop I now have enough that I can run a list with 4 of them lol. I rarely do because I prefer a little more balanced armies but I like a lot of my lists with three magma cannon's and just one mortar to threaten an enemy hero at the back of the board or prevent a dangerous unit from running. 

I know someone mentioned the hobgoblins a while back. I really wanted a fair amount of hobgoblins in my collection because of how important they are to the lore of the army. If you want to run a fluff list it seems like it would almost always have some slaves in it. I haven't had anyone turn me down on it yet when I point out that they have the substitute warscroll for the standard goblins. I have just used that warscroll and matched play profile. I have even played in two small local tournaments where the TO didn't mind me running them in the tournament but I always bring a back up list just in case. Since goblins cost the same point value as Infernal Guard (you just get twice as many bodies) it's really easy to swap them on a list. Haha when most people see the statline on my Infernal Guard they are happy to let me run gobbos instead lol. That being said in a competitive setting there is substitute for that awesome Infernal Guard Battleline in combat though no matter how lore friendly it is to have a block of slaves out front. I wanted them to look different than normal goblins too (because they're not, they're hobgoblins) so I'm working on converting a three groups of 20 Goblintown Goblins from The Hobbit line of minis. I think they fit the bill perfectly as they are dressed only in shabby loin cloths and most of them have raised arms so I am planning to hang some chain down from their wrists just for a fun grungy slave feel. They are of course 28mm actual scale instead but since they are goblins I'm okay with it, Just makes my Dawi Zharr look even sturdier next to them lol.

I know someone asked about general chaos allegiance. I really love their lore and don't want to depart from it too much but I do have one general chaos list that I have loved as I tried to keep it as true to lore as I could I got a War Mumak (also from The Hobbit line of models) to convert for a Chaos War Mammoth from Tamurkhan's Horde. Since they went out with him to get slaves I have plans (very very long plans as it will be a lengthy conversion) to write into their story that they brought a mammoth back from the campaign as 'slaver's mammoth' of sorts. I want to convert the howdah on top into a large cage filled with green skin slaves they bring home from their campaigns. I had a lot of fun with it. I ran this list at a local tournament a few weeks ago. The TO let me use the goblin warscroll and matched play profile for the hobgoblins since the compendium refers to that which meant he allowed me to take them as battleline, this was my list:

 

Castellan 120

    (great weapon and chaos talisman)  

Daemonsmith 100

Daemonsmith 100

Chaos War Mammoth 320

20 hobgoblins 100

20 hobgoblins 100

20 hobgoblins 100

Skullcracker War Engine 240

Dreadquake mortar 200

Dreadquake mortar 200

Magma cannon 140

Magma cannon 140

10 Fireglaives 100

1960

It's not the most competitive list but it was fun. I'm playing in another tournament on the 13th and plan to run just pure Legion of Azgorh.

I am excited too I just placed another Forgeworld order with both of the named heroes and a Taurak and I can't wait to field them.

I remember reading above too someone say they don't move their artillery much. I have to say that the artillery movement is one of my favorite things about this army. It is so unique and fun to utilize with the hauled gun carriage rule. I try every game to have a really dynamic artillery movement, even if its just my shorter range magma cannons. I have faked out opponents by deploying all of my artillery toward the right side of the board with a single row of infantry in front, a scary sight with two mortars. I've had people place huge chunks of their army on that right side to try to take out the artillery then run my skull cracker to the left each turn (rerolling with more power) while firing the artillery. This essentially leaves their army with a diagonal deployment like in Escalation. they have to get their army across the board long ways  which gives me a fantastic extra turn or two to shoot at them. People aren't used to having artillery move and it can really throw off their plans.

Anyway sorry for writing a freaking novel lol thanks for putting up with it. I just really wanted to catch up and be a part of this community. It's great to find more Azgorh players.   

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

Hey all, I'm glad to find this thread and discuss all things Legion of Azgorh.

Have any of you had much 2500pt experience?  I was looking at this setup:

Leaders
1 Drazhoath the Ashen

2 Daemonsmiths (Crown of Conquest)

1 Infernal Guard Castellan w/ Great Weapon (General, Lord of War)

Units
20 Infernal Guard Ironsworn

20 Infernal Guard Ironsworn

10 Infernal Guard Ironsworn

20 Infernal Guard Fireglaives

10 Infernal Guard Fireglaives

Behemoths
1 Iron Daemon

Artillery
2 Deathshrieker Rocket Launchers

3 Magma Cannons

Summoning Reserve
3 K'daai Fireborn
1 Balewind Vortex

2460/2500

 

I typically don't use the Castellan with Great Weapon fairly often, but the total points values are a bit "off" compared to my 1000/1500/2000pt setups, which I can hit right on the nose, to maximize the effect of my units.  I could switch a Skullcracker in for the Iron Daemon, but I like the option of 2d6 shots at 14" so that I can help snipe a pesky hero, should the Deathshriekers fail.  The summoning sideboard is dependent on whom I face, since K'daai pop fairly easy, I've found success in summoning them behind a melee onto terrain, so they can set up for further movement/charge (and hopefully survive) versus a Balewind which I use as an "Oh ******" button to block/funnel an advance (with proper Daemonsmith maneuvering, I can block off most of a flank to prevent a cavalry charge), setup a choke-point, or use as an arcane bolt sniping platform.  I'm also still unsure as to the proper number of Ironsworn versus Fireglaives... mystic shielded Ironsworn are great line-holders, and in a large game, I'm anticipating that my shooting will be doing most of the killing, so the 2 x 20 hold the line, and 1 x 10 fills in where needed, should the Iron Daemon need support, or another weak flank.  I'm looking forward to some input, since I'd like to make the Legion work at 1000/2000/2500 in matched play, but need a little feedback from you guys who may have had some successes at that value.

 

[Furious]

Hmm. I've never played a 2500 pt game. But when I first looked at that list, I though "Why no Blackshard warhost?" You'd have to do some switching about, dropping that 10 man Ironsworn unit and then finding a way to shave another 20 points (perhaps trading a magma cannon for a deathshrieker)... but maybe that would be worth it to buff your infantry?

That's my first thought.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

9 hours ago, Furious said:

Hmm. I've never played a 2500 pt game. But when I first looked at that list, I though "Why no Blackshard warhost?" You'd have to do some switching about, dropping that 10 man Ironsworn unit and then finding a way to shave another 20 points (perhaps trading a magma cannon for a deathshrieker)... but maybe that would be worth it to buff your infantry?

That's my first thought.

Simply because the majority of competitive lists, including Ben Curry's from Warlords, don't include it.  The Standard Bearer sucks for 80 points, as does having to take the 80 point battalion that only sometimes grants bonuses and is a waste for most of the game when your units are trying to capture objectives.  You can only have 2 units of ironsworn and 2 units of fireglaives in the battalion, so in bigger games where you have possibly 3 of each, or when you split fireglaives b/c of no monsters (to maximize napthas), the battalion is wasted on them.  

[EvDJ]

This is a little bit of wild speculation.

My imagination has been sparked into overdrive just a little bit from a conversation in another thread, and I know this is a long shot, with almost no chance of being anything, but...In the game Dreadfleet it talks about…

"Grimnir's Thunder is the Dwarven battleship piloted by Red Brokk Gunnarsson, a master engineer from the Dwarven seahold Barak Varr. Grimnir's Thunder can launch a dirigible from its decks."

I know it probably just GW reusing names but there are obviously similarities between Brokk Grungsson and Barak Nar of the Kharadron Overlords. I bring this up because Dreadfleet also talks about…

“The Black Kraken, the monstrous construction of Tordrek Hackhart, a Chaos Dwarf, which has been imbued with the soul of a demon. Tordrek holds a personal grudge against Red Brokk Gunnarsson.”

So tie that into the kraken imagery from the KO release and, well you can imagine what a fevered and overexcited imagination lead me to wonder. If nothing else It gives me some ideas of what theme I might give to a new Chaos Dwarf army.

Please GW hear my prayers.

[Browncoat89]

That would be pretty neat if they were connected. Haha imagine how crazy that would be as a crazy new monster release to replace the K'daai destroyer in the new edition. 

     Hey just out of curiosity how do you guys think a couple blocks of Ironsworn flown forward with Sayl? I was thinking they might be pretty crazy with mystic shield, demonic power, and the glotkin's spell to give them double wounds. If you could get them into cover they would be very resilient saving on 2+ and bounce back wounds on 4+. I was wondering how you guys think they would do compared to blood warriors or other things people pair with Sayl. 

     I love my straight CD lists and I'm a huge fan of their fluff. I prefer to stick to story lists in casual games but I was thinking about entering more tournaments and trying to be more competitive but don't have much experience at it.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

6 hours ago, Browncoat89 said:

That would be pretty neat if they were connected. Haha imagine how crazy that would be as a crazy new monster release to replace the K'daai destroyer in the new edition. 

     Hey just out of curiosity how do you guys think a couple blocks of Ironsworn flown forward with Sayl? I was thinking they might be pretty crazy with mystic shield, demonic power, and the glotkin's spell to give them double wounds. If you could get them into cover they would be very resilient saving on 2+ and bounce back wounds on 4+. I was wondering how you guys think they would do compared to blood warriors or other things people pair with Sayl. 

     I love my straight CD lists and I'm a huge fan of their fluff. I prefer to stick to story lists in casual games but I was thinking about entering more tournaments and trying to be more competitive but don't have much experience at it.

Well, if you take Sayl, you'll probably be taking Chaos Warriors as battleline instead, since Ironsworn only fulfill that requirement if you're pure Legion of Azgorh.  I wouldn't expect "a couple blocks of ironsworn" to be competitive along with Chaos Warriors, since you'll be using Artillery for a bunch of your points.

[Furious]

On 5/27/2017 at 10:24 PM, Black_Fortress_Immortal said:

Well, if you take Sayl, you'll probably be taking Chaos Warriors as battleline instead, since Ironsworn only fulfill that requirement if you're pure Legion of Azgorh.  I wouldn't expect "a couple blocks of ironsworn" to be competitive along with Chaos Warriors, since you'll be using Artillery for a bunch of your points.

Yeah, that's pretty much it - there's very little use for Ironsworn when you aren't keeping to the faction, unfortunately. They serve a good purpose in addition to being a battleline unit, but once they are no longer your battleline unit, what you do end up using as your battleline units will more-or-less fulfil the same purpose. They'd just be extraneous at that point.

[Browncoat89]

I've got a tournament on July 1st I'm hoping to run my legion of Azgorh allegience for. I may post a couple lists here and see what you guys think since it's only my third tournament ever and I am still pretty new to playing Chaos Dwarves. 

     I could take both battalions to try to get a first round snipe off on enemy heroes but I'm worried about my lines being too thin so more likely a different list. I also just got Drazhoath and Shar'tor in so I've been weighing their cost effectiveness too.

[Browncoat89]

For the artillery train battalion the artillery gets to reroll ones to hit if they didn't move in the movement phase. If you are towing a drathshrieker or something behind a war engine does it get that bonus since it is using the war engines movement instead of its own? 

I also had this come up in a game with a befuddled mystical terrain check. The engine can't move or shoot but can it still be towed since it says that is happening instead of its own movement not as its own movement?

[Furious]

I've always overlooked the artillery train battalion - I don't think it's very good. The Iron Daemon just isn't good enough to have two of them for 400 points, and the shooting ability doesn't help magma cannons as they don't make a hit roll.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

On 6/3/2017 at 0:52 PM, Browncoat89 said:

I've got a tournament on July 1st I'm hoping to run my legion of Azgorh allegience for. I may post a couple lists here and see what you guys think since it's only my third tournament ever and I am still pretty new to playing Chaos Dwarves. 

     I could take both battalions to try to get a first round snipe off on enemy heroes but I'm worried about my lines being too thin so more likely a different list. I also just got Drazhoath and Shar'tor in so I've been weighing their cost effectiveness too.

I also have a tournament.  Which one are you going to?

I've had luck with this list:

30 or 40 Ironsworn
20 or 30 Fireglaives
1 Drazhoath
2 Daemonsmiths
1 Iron Daemon
2 Magma Cannons
2 Deathshriekers
100pts leftover/summoning/sideboard/etc.

With the above, I can sub in a balewind vortex to help with the Deathshriekers sniping key heroes (SLAUGHTERPRIESTS/TZAANGOR SHAMAN/etc.) or add 10 more foot troops to try and pad my artillery.  Drazhoath is a big points sink (380) so with such a big investment, you have to use him for key moments and not let him die on a stupid charge.

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

7 hours ago, Furious said:

I've always overlooked the artillery train battalion - I don't think it's very good. The Iron Daemon just isn't good enough to have two of them for 400 points, and the shooting ability doesn't help magma cannons as they don't make a hit roll.

I agree.  The ONLY time I would take it, is if for whatever reason I had 2 Dreadquake Mortars and could get 1st turn shots off... the potential for 8d6 damage is there though...

[Browncoat89]

Yeah that's why I'm thinking of running it I do have two dreadquake mortars but like Ben said they are really unreliable so I'm just trying to see if I can buff them them both enough to make it worth it to even bring them. My other list runs 4 magma cannons to just maximize mortal wounds. 

One list is better at sniping obviously and the other is definitely more of a mid-range and  melee list. Any thoughts on which might be better?

Also regardless of the effectiveness of the battalion though (who knows if I'll run it) what is your guy's opinion on the wording of that rule? The exact wording is "if the <artillery> Begins the movement phase within 3" of a <warengine>, it may be hauled along behind the warengine as it moves, rather than <artillery> moving itself this turn". 

So does that mean it is still able to be hauled and get a bonus for not moving or can still be hauled if it is befuddled by mystical terrain?

[Black_Fortress_Immortal]

31 minutes ago, Browncoat89 said:

Yeah that's why I'm thinking of running it I do have two dreadquake mortars but like Ben said they are really unreliable so I'm just trying to see if I can buff them them both enough to make it worth it to even bring them. My other list runs 4 magma cannons to just maximize mortal wounds. 

One list is better at sniping obviously and the other is definitely more of a mid-range and  melee list. Any thoughts on which might be better?

Also regardless of the effectiveness of the battalion though (who knows if I'll run it) what is your guy's opinion on the wording of that rule? The exact wording is "if the <artillery> Begins the movement phase within 3" of a <warengine>, it may be hauled along behind the warengine as it moves, rather than <artillery> moving itself this turn". 

So does that mean it is still able to be hauled and get a bonus for not moving or can still be hauled if it is befuddled by mystical terrain?

If you take the Dreadquakes, I wouldn't take Drazhoath, since you most likely won't have enough points to go around.  If going in a competitive environment MAYBE go for a 2-3 drop list with BOTH battalions, 30 ironsworn, 30 fireglaives and merely use the Iron Daemons as roadblocks.  With the buffs and rerolls, you can get some 1st turn mortar shots off on the enemy, and if Destruction/Order, will have rerolls of 1 to hit/wound.  A gamble (and 1000pt investment...), but can wipe off Thundertusks 1st phase with potential -2 rend, 4D6 dmg.

In my (limited) experience, I like the Deathshriekers because of the 3 shots with D3 damage each.  It's not unlikely to have 2 get through, and able to snipe a hero/wizard/priest, and with a 2nd, it's basically all but guaranteed (statistically).  The 2 magmas can be brought up into range reliably with the Iron Daemon and able to hit the high-threat ones with the D6 (reroll on 10+ models mmmmm).  I feel like this is the only shot we have at thinning the enemy herd.

I'm personally going to be trying for about 40 Ironsworn and only 20 Fireglaives or so, to pad my artillery against deepstrikes or flanks.  Snipe the units that are able to disable the artillery.  I still want a Balewind Vortex to neuter any sniper units with Ash Storm.  An offensive army setup will try to get a 1st turn charge against you, most likely letting you go first to absorb the charge, or they'll gun it with their buffs + Sayl or whatever.  I'm going to take Cunning Deceiver to try and extend the lifespan of my units.  I've debated dropping Drazhoath in favor of a Tauruk + 20 Ironsworn/Fireglaives, which may be a safer bet... but the 15" fly/charge seems to have so much utility, but 380 points is too expensive imo.

If befuddled, the artillery is "simply placed," not a movement of itself.  

Since we're talking Battalions, I was debating a 2-drop list in a competitive setting to gain the initiative:

1 Castellan
1 BSB
1 Daemonsmith
1 x 40 Ironsworn
1 x 30 Ironsworn
2 x 40 Fireglaives
Blackshard Warhost
100pts summoning OR 1 Daemonsmith OR 10 Ironsworn

Take Cunning Deceiver, get the 1st turn, run up as much as you can, keeping Fireglaives protected.  Balewind your Daemonsmith if you want to Ash storm some ranged, otherwise shield up your frontline of Ironsworn.  They'll crash into you, taking damage from your saves, or trying to shoot (which can be up to -3 to hit with a successful ash storm + cunning deceiver).  With your Castellan ability, and the rerolls, you will be pumping out tons of damage with basic fireglaive shots.  Your focus fire will melt anything.  The list has potentially 170-180 wounds of 4+ save, reroll 1s vs. shooting... Thoughts?
 

[EvDJ]

Well Forgeworld have just dropped the point for the new Exalted daemons and in the pdf are changes to the some of the Legion, and i'm not sure they help our cause.

Infernal Guard Battle Standard has gone up 100 (Previously 80)

Infernal Guard Ironsworn are now 180 (100)

Infernal Guard Fireglaives are now 160 (100)

K’daai Fireborn was are now 180 (100)

Blackshard Warhost in now 100 (80)

 

I think the ironsworn and the fireglaives are the most painful!

 

 

[Furious]

******. That's not even reasonable.

That's super disappointing... but I guess we'll have to see which other units went up or down before freaking out - how relative this seemingly drastic increase is. Or maybe the wascrolls are changing? I can't imagine the dwarfs being two wounds per model, and everything else is pretty standard for basic infantry.

Also Fireglaives should be more expensive than Ironsworn. What's going on over there?

[Furious]

Link, by the way.