[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

@Riff_Raff_RascalVery true. The more I think about it the more I see that this can be incredibly versatile and easily able to respond to different scenarios, and hopefully the killing power is there.

I had thought of leaving off 100 points previously for CP, but I think I'll have to take my own advice and just play with different variations to see how they go. All in all though, I'm quite hopeful for this. My previous pure Skryre lists haven't been doing well in competitive settings due to no bodies and I have since switched to using 40 GR's, but I've yet to play any competitive games with that setup yet. I'm a little more confident in this setup in comparison. Depending how I feel, may try out some WLC's at some point as well.

You all will get updates soon, appreciate the brainstorming.

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

@Riff_Raff_Rascal That's the idea. Curious to see how the locals deal with it and how I can pull out getting into Tzeentch\Death armies backlines to take out heroes. Most of them have wised up to deploying correctly so I cannot setup directly behind them.

I'm mostly going to be keeping an eye on the Gutter Runner's performance. They have been pretty average most of the time for me, but I need to learn target prioritization with them. I really think this setup would benefit from cogs for the +2 Charge, but unsure how I could fit them in unless I drop some Gutter Runner's, at which point I would rather drop them all in favor of some more magic\endless spells like I said earlier. I really don't know that Gutter Runner's are useful outside of units of 20.

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

8 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@Skreech Verminking I dunno, pretty sure stormvermin would get the buff. I'm trying to think against what armies I would choose to engage a bigger chunks of dudes. They're role in my mind is to hit first against elite units and not chaff. I suggested to gwendar to split 'em up to protect against early range attacks. They're so expensive to lose, I'd hate to get a whole block wiped out by a Curse of Years and prefer to only lose 10. 

The local meta mostly consists of DoK, Tzeentch, Various Death, IJ, Seraphon and Mixed Order. I planned to only use them against heavy hitters anyway as Clanrats probably wouldn't have too many issues with extra attacks in hitting chaff, especially since the retreat-charge generally allows them to get more attacks in than whatever they're hitting would.

All that said, here is my "final draft" and probably what I will be building into in the next month or so:

Allegiance: Chaos
Skaven Warlord on Brood Horror (220)
- General
- Trait: Cunning Deceiver
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
Verminlord Deceiver (300)
Warpgnaw Verminlord (320)
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
20 x Gutter Runners (200)
10 x Stormvermin (140)
- Halberd & Shield
10 x Stormvermin (140)
- Halberd & Shield
1 x Warp Grinder Weapon Team (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000

Plenty of deepstrike shenanigans. I have some choice here on who brings who along, could even put the Stormvermin in a unit of 20 to go along with the Warpgnaw. Deceiver puts the Warlord wherever he's needed as suggested, could drop him for something else however.

Other option consists of removing the GR's for an Arch-Warlock (Or Grey Seer)+BW & Cogs, along with a single Warlord on foot and a Priest (or take the extra CP).

Curious to see how it works out. Appreciate all the advice that's been given. Excited to actually try out a different approach to Skaven. I feel like I need to practice movement phase now.

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

@Riff_Raff_RascalI did consider the larger base coming into play for Crown, and I do enjoy self-healing units. I had considered using the Warpgnaw to take objectives regardless, but I also really like the idea of 9 Jezzails landing where I need them, hmm. I've had 0 luck with Jezzails in my Skryre lists as of 2.0, but may give them a shot here. Lots of options, so I will take all of those suggestions and give them a try! Normally I attempt to collect lists rather than models, but when it comes to Skaven I tend to just collect anything since almost everything is fun and aesthetically pleasing. Except Pestilens, no interest there. Appreciate the advice.

At this point I may just get crazy with it and attempt to squeeze in a Deceiver somewhere. Oh the possibilities.

@Skreech Verminking I had been thinking the same, but I think both approaches are valid depending on the game\your opponent. I will most likely give myself plenty of different combinations a try and see what I like best as an all-rounder.

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

I will definitely give the MSU strategy a try first with a couple of Warlords, which would be less expensive than FW anyway. And isn't the horror's ability the exact same as a standard warlord in that you can only pick 1 unit wholly within 13"?

I have used plague priests to good effect when combined with a Deceiver and Gutter Runners. Hasn't worked as well this edition with Look out, sir (RIP Jezzails) but I still do it anytime I play my Eshin as no one expects it. 

My current list idea based on suggestions:

Allegiance: Chaos
Skaven Warlord (100)
- General
- War Halberd
- Trait: Cunning Deceiver
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
Skaven Warlord (100)
- War Halberd
Warpgnaw Verminlord (320)
Arch Warlock (140)

40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
10 x Stormvermin (140)
- Halberd & Shield
10 x Stormvermin (140)
- Halberd & Shield
10 x Stormvermin (140)
- Halberd & Shield

20 x Gutter Runners (200)
1 x Warp Grinder Weapon Team (80)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000

Obviously not familiar with the Warpgnaws value, but this setup would give me the ability to deepstrike 2 units of Clanrats and have the GR's going into their backline. An alternate version is to drop the Warpgnaw, bring along a Deceiver+Priest combo, and a Seer by dropping the BW+1 Stormvermin unit. Or drop the GR's to 15 and keep the BW. I have a feeling the increased magic and a debuffing a unit with the skitterleaped Priest may not be worth losing 10 Stormvermin however.

Or I'm just insane and overvalue deepstriking units. Nighthaunt and Gautfyre have possibly ruined me.

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

7 hours ago, Num said:

- you have no shooting and would likely suffer against shooty army

- you have little magic too

- stormvermins are only good when they attack first. If they fail their grinder charge at 9", that's 400-500 points down...

- stormvermins cost quite a lot, lack versatility and their stats are close to clanrats'. Can you babysit two units at a same time? If not, also consider that if you get rid of 10 stormvermins, you get 40 extra clanrats under GA: chaos (blob of 40 stormvermins plus 40 clanrats at the same price). It depends on how hordy you want to be.

I think that even the hardcore verminus players in this thread have replaced stormvermins with plague monks

 

-I could easily go GA and throw in my WLC's or another 20 GR's for some shooting. I'm not as concerned with no shooting since there is meant to be a decent amount of deepstriking going on to counteract that. As for magic, while that is true, I think that yet again it just comes down to what I can fit in as allies. At this point I'll just go full GA and commit to more magic over shooting. I have enough heavily shooting armies anyway.

-Regardless of how Stormvermin perform in comparison to others, I will be running them. I just love their aesthetic too much, and I really dislike Plague Monks outside of using them for conversions. I've been playing Skryre almost exclusively for the past year and a half now, so I could definitely throw in some Stormfiends for a good hammer, but I feel the urge to go full Horde (while trying to stay below 180 models or so)

Also Is the Brood Horror Warlord worth anything, or is it generally just better to bring along 2 normal Warlords? I assumed it would be a little tankier and therefore easier to keep Crown up for the BS immunity.
 

2 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@Gwendar I very much love that list. Frankly you don't have to have to tunnel the stormvermin either. You're flexible during deployment to drop in 40 clanrats on a back line objective for a solid threat. Also, the gutter runners essentially serve the same role as your deep striking stormvermin so you don't necessarily need to deploy them the way you describe. But my point is the flexibility of deployment you have depending on your opponents shooting. Without changing too much I would only recommend  splitting up your stormvermin into units of 10. Decentralizing your heavy hitting blobs is a good tactic against magic and shooting especially when the start on the field and they cost the same. 

By the by, as a longtime verminous player myself, use your clanrats (or any chaff unit) this way... 

No, I guess I don't have to. I've used block of 40 Clanrats+grinder to drop in a backline\on an objective with my Skryre games to good effect. Gutter Runners generally have only provided a 1st turn distraction before getting easily wiped out, but they're cheap enough that I justify it. I have a habit of going after the wrong targets with them.

I guess I hadn't thought of splitting them into MSU's of 10, so I could give that a go. I'll probably write up another GA list and post it soon. I appreciate the video, somehow I've never seen that. I've gotten a lot of advice from Dan in the past so that was useful to watch.

Also how has the warpgnaw been doing in relation to other Verminlords? I'm playing with an idea now of 2 Clanrats blocks being tunneled in where needed along with the Gutter Runner's hitting a backline all at once. Then again, I think I just overly enjoy deepstriking my units in.

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

So, despite my discontentment towards Horde armies, I have really been considering going into Verminus finally to give myself 1 real horde army and just use plenty of 5-10 man movement trays. I know GA: Chaos is generally the way to go, but I have been dabbling with some lists and after reviewing a few posts, I have a "final draft" below. Give some thoughts and heavy CC, I'm far too used to how to play Skryre and not so used to competitiveness with high model count Skaven.

Allegiance: Verminus
Skaven Warlord on Brood Horror (220)
- General
- Trait: Cunning Deceiver
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
Verminlord Warbringer (280)
Skaven Warlord (100)
- War Halberd & Barbed Blade

40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Blade
30 x Stormvermin (420)
- Halberd & Shield
20 x Stormvermin (280)
- Halberd & Shield

20 x Gutter Runners (200)
- Allies
1 x Warp Grinder Weapon Team (80)
- Allies

Total: 1980 / 2000

Idea is tunneling the 30 pack of Stormvermin to hit a flank and the GR's to tie up something else in the backline\go hunting for squishy targets.

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

4 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

In fact most players in my meta know to target our heroes first before targeting the unit

Thanks! Luckily most of the people I play against haven't usually targeted heros, and that goes for any army I use. My Arch-Warlock is a popular target since they really dislike the d3 MW's to 3 units, despite my Stormfiends completely deleting units in one turn. I think if I play with Olynder more and keep her a bit closer rather than so far back then they'll catch on. The last guy couldn't believe it when she deleted his Daemon Prince from almost full health.

Good thing I have 2 extra Torments just laying around to use...we'll see how it goes next time. I have 2 more armies to build and another to start buying into and a lot of painting to do with all of that so I may take a break before I buy anything else for NH.

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

Quick batrep for the 1500pt game against Tzeentch playing Battle for the Pass. Only made it to the end of round 3 before we called it since we had other places to be (Tzeentch hero phase and some passerby's talking to us caused the game to take longer than intended). 

Me:Olynder, GoS, Executioner, 2x6 and 1x3 SH's, Mourngul and an Execution Horde.

Opponent:Ogroid, Gaunt Summoner, Blue Scribes, Curseling, 20 Tzaangor, 20 Acolytes, 2x10 Pinks.

1st: I go second and deepstrike in the Executioner and 6 Hosts to the left objective to deal with the Tzaangors, right side had the 3 Hosts unit move onto it. Other unit of 6 moved straight ahead into the Acolytes. Not much happened here. Score 5-1.

2nd: I get the double and leave ~6 Tzaangors left, 3 SH's charge a unit of Pinks with an 11 and kill them over 2 turns. Charge the 6 SH's in middle to the Acolytes. His turn, the middle SH's get brought down to 4 from MW's and left side w/ Tzaangors get reduced to 4. I decide to keep the Mourngul away since there is no good place to charge into his Wizard party. Score 10-2.

3rd: He gets the double, MW's the middle SH's down to 2 and with my suggestion (still a somewhat new player, so trying to teach him a bit about tactics as this was his first objective game) fly's his Scribes over to the right objective that is now empty and summons in 10 Blues on top of it with the goal of long-bombing another unit onto my home objective next turn. He also summons a Herald on Disc to moves towards the left objective and squeezes in another unit of 10 Blues to have just a few more to cap that objective as well. On my turn I replenish the middle SH unit back to 6, take care of the acolytes and then charge the blues on my left objective to regain control. Mourngul comes in the back, but fails his charge and does nothing. We call it ending with a victory of 12-8.


Again, the SH's did alright, but nothing gets deleted turn 1. Against any melee strong army they will suffer if I do not hit them harder first and the Mourngul just seems better suited to take squishy hero's over massed infantry. I really am considering changing my 2k list to bring in either 2x10 or 1x20 Revenants w/ an accompanying Chainghast unit or Spirit Torment to have a decently mobile unit that can hit things in the flank over the Mourngul, but would love to fit both if possible. That would severely limit my battleline choice of SH's however.

Overall, still have fun with it and people underestimate the amount of MW's that Olynder puts out and never seem to focus her down, being more scared of the SH's.

[AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion]

I run 18 of them as 3x6 w/ plenty of healing (Olynder, GoS Beacon and Vamp Lord), but no Black Coach. Works well in tying everything up, at least in units of 6. 

Considering dropping my Mourngul in favor of 20 Revenants for only 20 points more, which really is sad to think about... so you should have no issues swinging around that Revenant hammer if you can keep it alive and charging into the backs of whatever your Hosts are tarpitting.

[AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion]

11 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Despite my schemes amongst skryre and mixed magic skaven lists, I've gotten much feedback on the nature of magic's usefulness for skaven. On one hand, its all long range mortal wounds and devastating against already terrible magic armies, but on the other its not at all as effecient with magic armies that also have a battletome spell list. I have decided to push further into shooting. A mob of mortar teams or trio of lightning cannons will do the trick. Jezzails, while I love them, have become difficult to boost their to-hit roll for their headshot proc. Alternatively pestilens have the foulrain congregation that absolutely destroys a mob, not to mention snipes large heroes at that. Of course all of this shooting is in response to everyone around me casting way better magic. 

It's still good to at least have a couple of wizards around to attempt to unbind or dispell, so don't go too far out of the way of magic usage. There are 2 Tzeentch players in my area that love unbinding almost everything I do (one uses the Curseling so sometimes things get fired right back at me) and it got frustrating until I started bringing a pack or two of 20 Gutter Runners and using 2 WLC's up from one.

It's worked well. I would like to see what 3 could do, but I'm not sure if it's worth it unless you run them with an arkhspark to get 6 shots a turn. I've stopped using mortars entirely now as they were already very swingy, but If you do run mortars, I recommend at least using 3 and overseer to give them re-rolls to hits of 1. Just don't leave out units to screen all of this shooting. I typically run with 3x3 Stormfiends and ally in 40 Gutter Runners to deepstrike to take off pressure. I just wish Jezzails didn't turn so...worthless.

[AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion]

1 hour ago, flamingwalnut said:

Beautiful...

Eager to see a battle report from this. May try and mock up something similar.

I'm excited to get one out! Will probably start getting everything bought up in the next month or so...I may try a proxy game if I get impatient and see how it goes.

I went back and forth on what artillery to use, but the Ballistas are undercosted for what they do and they easily allow me to fit in the Hurricanum and Luminark while still maxing out on 4 pieces of artillery. My second choice would've been rocket batteries, but I would have to take out too many important things for arguably worse artillery. Either way, 6 things having a chance to shoot twice per phase can be wonderful.

[AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion]

33 minutes ago, Yoshiya said:

Looks like a fun list. I found myself drawn to Longbeards for my slow-grow Living City army too. The rend and rerollable 4+ are just so nice on a cheap-ish batteline, even if you cant really expect them to output too much damage due to low weight of attacks.

That's the idea, definitely not expecting to win games but I'm a huge fan of volley firing artillery\tanks so...It had to be done and ballistas are much more efficient for their points than rocket batteries would be, at least on paper. All the strength is in the War Machines, Luminark and Hurricanum, which can hopefully whittle everything down in time.

I was stuck on using kitbashed Freeguild Guard for the longest time until I really looked into the Longbeards. Plus they're Dwarfs, so.

[AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion]

I think I've finally decided on a list. Definitely going with Longbeards, as I think in minimum units they're just as good\better than 10-20 Guard when you take the shield wall into account. Excited to get to get started with it to see how it performs.

Allegiance: Greywater Fastness
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (380)
- General
Luminark Of Hysh With White Battlemage (240)
Lord-Ordinator (140)

10 x Longbeards (100)
- Great Axes & Shields
10 x Longbeards (100)
- Great Axes & Shields
10 x Longbeards (100)
- Great Axes & Shields

Steam Tank (260)
Steam Tank (260)

Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000

[AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion]

@Riff_Raff_Rascal I haven't tried skitterleaping it as I have never tried running a deceiver in a Skryre army as I never really found it useful. I guess that does help to re-position throughout the game though, I just never found that to be worth the 300 points of allies when I could bring 400 points of bodies instead. Of course, that's just me talking from a pure Skryre perspective (I almost always run 3x3 Stormfiends and 2 Cannons nowadays so I need the bodies) and I'm sure it's easier to consider in a mixed army.

I will agree on the subject of endless spells. I've mostly hated them aside from balewind, palisade, cogs and shackles and even those are rarely included anymore. There's a couple of Tzeentch players around here that love to unbind so I rarely get anything off, and even if I do, their Curselings tend to fire it right back.

[AoS 2 - Clan Skyre Discussion]

7 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Balewind + Archwarlock + Terrain Cover + Mystic Sheild spell? So long as the balewind is fully within a terrain feature to grant cover, and the balewind and rat are treated as one model, does this give me a 2+ save reroll 1 skaven? Thats one hell of a skryre general.

Yep, I did this recently against DoK in my last batrep and it was arcane terrain on top of that. It was nice seeing Morathi have such a hard time getting to and attempting to wound him.

People tend to glance over just how good the Arch-Warlock is I've noticed, especially when you set him up properly as described.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

4 hours ago, Diablo said:

damn, but this is stupid I was looking forward to this ability  and now not anymore , now i regret that i have built flayers

Honk's right, I think they still have a great place and that's just looking at them on paper and I've decided to just go with 1x9 to accompany things in a more standardized list. They still average out decent MW from rolling 6's to hit (especially attacking twice w/ Deadwatch), so I don't think I would drop them just from the shooting attack disappointment.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

1 minute ago, Diablo said:

Eh what ? 3 Flayers makes only 3 MW ? But in the description stands : "Suffers a number of deadly wounds equal to the difference" so when i roll with 6 dice (6 Flayers) 5,4,3,4,5,2  against undead (-10 for bravery) then i make 13 MW,  Or did I misunderstand ? sure with only 3 Flayers is the Damage less but with more Flayers i think is the Damage very strong.

 

No, you're misunderstanding it. You roll 1 dice for each Flayer and add +1 to each, meaning the highest total you can achieve is 7, which against a Bravery of 6 would Inflict 1 MW. If all 6 Flayers rolled a 6 (7 with the +1) against a Bravery 6 target, they would in total inflict 6 MW's. 

What you're doing is adding all of those rolls together and thinking the total number is what you subtract the bravery from and that is incorrect. It would be far deadlier if it worked like that, as you pointed out. 

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

5 hours ago, Honk said:

best list will not help you, when your using it wrong

I acknowledge that, I tend to just come on these threads and spew out ideas and hope others can wrangle with them for how things play. 

Will probably just start with a SC box, flayers and ghouls and see how it plays out. 60 Ghouls and 9 Flayers seems best when you consider the possible limitations pure 3x6 deadwatch has. Appreciate the help! 

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

4 hours ago, Honk said:

but for what they do, the are totally overpriced 

Would maybe a more Horror focused list like Abattoir would prove better on average than mass Flayers in a Deadwatch? At least you get some MW output from the Battalion, no? Seems a bit more balanced (probably RL cheaper too) than pure Flayers in a 3x6. But again, I'm here to learn, so may be way off the mark with that assumption.

Then again, I think I'm becoming more convinced Ghoul Patrol is the about the only way to go regardless for competitive play. Maybe 3x20 ghouls, 1x9 flayers to get the best of both worlds. Take the CT to summon in a second ghast courtier and an infernal to run with the flayers?

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

@HonkTrue, I suppose I hadn't though of the fact it doesn't really allow any first turn shenanigans. I already knew I wouldn't be getting anything done for the objective game, this was more for casual\semi-competitive play and I love the regeneration aspect of it. May buy some extra ghouls regardless and see how I like them over purely flayers.

What the general consensus on trying to fit in a GKoTG and GKoZD in the same deadwatch list? Better to just have 1 GKoZD + More courtiers for the regeneration?

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

2 hours ago, mrbedlam said:

A lot of people really like the Deadwatch list, but I lean more towards Ghoul Patrol lists. Not only do they have that classic horror, monsters from all sides closing in feel to it, but it is very strong to camp objectives.  My favorite list so far is GK on TG(Banshee Blade, Majestic Horror), Ghoul Courtier, Varghulf(FLayed Pennant), 2 GK, 30/20/20 Ghouls. Ghoul Patrol and a couple Endless spells. Usually Cogs and Soul Shackles.  The list can hit very hard and Flayed Pennant can allow the 2 summoned Horror blobs to charge in on the first turn they come on the board. Then swarm objectives with piles of regenerating ghouls.

I do play Nighthaunt as well, but was looking for something a little different than the campy/defensive nature of how I play them and fast, regenerating units that put out MW's seem fun. Maybe I'm just underestimating all of the synergies to Ghouls and I didn't want another "horde" army, although ~40-60 models total for battleline isn't terrible, better than moving around 120 Eshin models. I like to only buy the models I need\plan to use and usually the SC boxes comes with extra, but buying 2 may be the best bet? I wouldn't see the value in it though unless I planned to use a TG and ZD together in lists, which is why mine had both.

Your list idea has really intrigued me though. Do Deadwatch lists tend to do decently in a more competitive environment or does the amount of bodies tend to prove detrimental in most cases? Assuming of course you don't table your opponent with all of the extra attacks before they get too many objective points.

[AoS 2 - Flesh-eater Courts Discussion]

Been looking at this army for awhile and reading through it seems most go for Crypt Ghoul units of 10-20 for Battleline. Is it at all viable to go purely Flayer or Horror with their respective battalions + a GKoTG & GKoZD? Was thinking something along the lines of this:

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
Crypt Infernal Courtier (140)
- General
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Terrorgheist (400)
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon (440)
6 x Crypt Flayers (320)
6 x Crypt Flayers (320)
3 x Crypt Flayers (160)
Deadwatch (170)

Total: 1950 / 2000

Maybe drop a King in order to bring more Flayers and another Courtier or something? The SC boxes would give me Ghouls to summon in as well if I had a regular GK or two...could be good for objective camping? I expected this to be another type of Horde army but most of the lists I'm seeing do not go above 30-40 Crypt Ghouls total, I just really enjoy more MSU's of elite troops for armies.

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

3 hours ago, Pompe said:

Looks great! How much are you selling them for? Would need either 20 or 40

Thanks! I put a lot of work into them, unfortunately I don't particularly have the time to paint or play with them (the most models I go for in an army is ~60-80 now). I'll PM you about selling as I don't want to tie up forum posts about it.

[AoS 2 - Clan Verminus / Skaven Discussion]

@brimmstorm They're primed but not painted, but yeah I can pull a few out and post them up when I get home. 

Edit: almost forgot, here we go. Bad pics are bad, but you get the idea. I forgot I painted a few as testers.