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Gwendar

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  1. Gwendar
    I don't know that I agree we're a dead faction in the tournament scene. We certainly need to adapt and probably get over the 100% "need" to bring 6 Fiends and all that, that's for sure... but the issue is that while we have a lot of units available, most of them simply aren't good. You just can't buff Rat Ogres, Monks or Gutter Runners to achieve anywhere near the damage numbers capable like you can with Skryre. It's all cheaper, sure.. but is that enough? There is definitely some level of unexpectedness when it comes to bringing lesser known factions to the table.. I mean, just look at how well Chaos Legion Ascendant is doing all of a sudden. Until we get other units buffed or points drastically reduced then I don't think much is going to change. Every army has good and bad matchups.. but it seems to me that more and more are becoming bad one's for us. We still are quite good at hero sniping (and hence why I've leaned more towards 2 WLC's over 9 Jezzails) which things like Seraphon rely on.. but they have their own ways to out-range or out-gun us. I like the list idea though.. I've put more trust in Doomwheels lately; it's just things like Acolytes that I struggle with due to the large footprint and reliance on a single spell going off in a game that has made it increasingly hard to get things off successfully (Seraphon, Tzeentch, HH, Lumineth potentially... etc). The amount of things that can 1-shot those Acolytes or 40 Clanrats or out-attrition is on objectives just feels bad. I dunno, weird day today.. sorry for being bleak. I'm going to eat lunch and my mind may change. 😉
  2. Gwendar
    I've been heavily considering it for quite awhile now, but with the recent string of the allegiance doing quite well in TTS tournaments has solidified that choice... though I really only want to run 1 VL. A Corruptor with Fearfold Blade is just a better version of one with a SoJ in my opinion. I think running what you have is nice, but yeah there are more "optimal" choices.. but this is the Skaventide thread after all 😉 Many run Kairos (his power level for 400 points is incredible and he fits in perfectly to this type of list), but after that is where it varies it bit. The goal altogether is attrition with free Pinks and everything having a 6+ FNP (or 5+ with the Aura) from the Gaunt's warscroll spell and Legions.. it's kind of absurd really, being able to throw out 50 wounds a turn really. The better this allegiance becomes in the tournament scene, the quicker I see it getting changed. Perhaps only rolling 2d6 and needing a 10+ to get the summon? It's quite the anti-meta altogether, and playing reactively with an attrition based list is definitely my style.
  3. Gwendar
    He got 2nd by 2 points.. Seraphon took 1st and 3rd, though he did beat one of those lists if I recall by a pretty substantial amount (although I think the Seraphon player was entirely too passive). But that's the thing though, isn't it? The more popular these types of lists get and how well they perform, the more likely GW feels the need to change things. Not saying that will happen, just a possibility. I'm building into it regardless. I don't 100% love this one in particular, but I've seen all sorts of variants do exceptionally well including the one from a couple weeks ago running Kairos + Rotigus + Warpseer + Be'Lakor and 50 Plaguebearers.. that one went 3-0 and got 3rd. So something is definitely working well, no matter how you build it; but I think in the end a lot of that has to do with Pink summoning. The Daemonettes were really just there for Run + Charge for flanking\tagging something for a turn.. and cheap minimal battleline so he could bring 12 K'Daai. Speaking of Crushers, I did wonder about them as a substitute for K'daai. But hey.. I still need to finish my Slayers and miscellaneous Skaven units I'm repainting\basing so figured I would just hop in here for some tactical talk and get opinions with everyone.
  4. Gwendar
    True, I would just hope they don't use that 30" range to take out those Jezzails; especially if it's T1 and you're without a CP to make them stay put if they kill 2 or more of them. They have quite a few options that work well honestly. Darkfire Daemonrift has been a popular choice lately with all the HH, Seraphon and Tzeentch running around.. probably will continue to be the case with Lumineth. There's also a combo with WLV + Comet by taking an allied SC Wizard, but I think that's more gimmicky than something that would work well in tournaments.
  5. Gwendar
    @Cosmicsheep I think that's about the best defense we have against it, although the big guns can still be in range to pop something unless you roll quite high on that 2d6" Hell, the thing I hate about them most isn't that their shooting\mobility is good, it's that they can make use of WLV better than we can most of the time 😉
  6. Gwendar
    Here it is, I remade it in warscroll builder rather than giving a link for you😉: Allegiance: Legion of Chaos AscendantLeadersVerminlord Corruptor (280)- General- Command Trait: Ruinous Aura- Artefact: Fourfold Blade- Spell: Echo of HatredKairos Fateweaver (400)- Spell: Echo of HatredGaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (260)- Spell: Bolt of RuinBattleline10 x Daemonettes (110)10 x Daemonettes (110)10 x Daemonettes (110)Units12 x K'Daai Fireborn (480)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsUmbral Spellportal (70)Warp Lightning Vortex (100)Darkfire Daemonrift (50)Total: 1970 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 97 The inclusion of the K'daai is interesting and I like the choice.. though I wonder what an alternative could be for those that don't want to invest. The list more or less relied on summoning 10 Pinks a turn (and of course another free 10 from the Gaunt) and it was just hard for anything to take objective control due to the mass amount of free bodies. Quite reactive by keeping the K'daai back until the time was right which suites my own playstyle a lot. Like I said, kind of makes me wonder if this will stick around or if it will throw another signal off to GW to make a change with free Pinks.
  7. Gwendar
    Interesting to see this allegiance doing reasonably well right now: Seems to be a good counter pick to most things out there. Attrition based armies are something I'm big on so I may be joining you all soon enough 😉 Still, seems Pink horrors are another crutch for a list when you can summon such a mass amount of wounds so easily. Curious to see if something happens with them (maybe only summoning 5 instead of 10 as I've seen some suggest).
  8. Gwendar
    Yep, for it's cost it's good to have if you're running 80+ Clanrats I feel.. although it won't protect you against any T1 charges like a Bell would. Of course, in that scenario I think you'll find you messed up deployment or those Clanrats were doomed no matter what.
  9. Gwendar
    I think this is where proper pre-measurement of your opponents threat ranges and deployment as a whole comes into play. 40 Clanrats are some of the best objective snatchers and anchors in the game for their price. I think 20 of them as tax fits better into the 1-turn meatshield role, however. With 40 of them, you can quite easily string them out to deny board space, or force your opponent into moving a certain way (think killing zones), more or less. I think you need to start viewing them not as meatshields in larger units, but as what I stated above; objective snatchers and anchors. Now, when I say anchor, I don't mean a wall that is going to stick around for 2+ turns like 30 Phoenix guard or 20 Hearthguard Berserkers (who are both also very killy, unlike Clanrats). I mean that with Retreat + charge they can keep a hammer unit in combat for longer than they want to be by you simply tagging the unit. Once they pile in, they'll kill some Clanrats, sure, but likely not all of them.. and you now have a few options: Retreat + charge right back into them, reforming your line and ensuring the minimal amount of the tagged unit is able to hit you in combat keeping them held up longer. Retreat + charge another unit that's on an objective and do the same thing. Run + retreat wherever needed as Clanrats have a 14" move if you auto-run them 6" with a CP To pull any of this off, you need to understand positioning and of course think ahead of where you want them to be next turn and where your hammers are to clean up what they're holding up. Having BS immunity is also 100% necessary.. whether that's from a Warpseer or a Bell of Doom is up to you. I don't think a Screaming Bell is good in this scenario as it forces you to keep a blob of Clanrats nearby rather than strung along. I think one weakness is against heavy shooting\magic armies, but then again that seems to be everyone's weakness in the current meta, so I don't really hold value there anyway. It's hard to explain.. I think it's something you need to see to try to understand so here's 2 videos (both Dan Brewer) which give's some wonderful insight into how this is done:
  10. Gwendar
    Yeah... I really don't understand the 20 point increase for an 18" shot on a far better model. It's like they didn't want people to use their new model that they took a year to announce they were releasing it themselves so you could stop buying from scalpers. Oh wait, I guess I went on a slight tangent. Anyway, I've been using Bombardiers as proxy's for Engineers.. but the IoB one's are ~$25 on ebay so they're about on point with any other blister pack hero.
  11. Gwendar
    Finished up my 2 WLC's that never got updated to my settled on paint scheme. I'll finish the Bell of Doom tomorrow. Have 40 Stormvermin and a Warpgnaw coming in as well in the next few weeks so I'll post those up when they're good to go as well. For now, back to my Dwarves 😉
  12. Gwendar
    I appreciate it, always like having more ideas to pull from from others experiences. May give the Gnawbomb thing a shot one day... there's actually quite a few things that quarantine withdrawals have made me want to try next time I get to play. 😉
  13. Gwendar
    Definitely worth a listen, I always value Dan's opinion. Some things I somewhat disagree with, both overall it's given me a bit of a think on some of my opinions of things. May be worth trying some new, very different ideas out.. though again, a lot will depend on the GHB:
  14. Gwendar
    https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com/ Oh, no I would never run double Fiends in that type of setup 😅. I think you could by just taking the one Skitterleap and running double grinder team or grinder team + bridge as you said. Don't think that's worth it though, at least in a competitive environment. Something like that is easily screened off with the Ratlings 12" range. May be better to just have a Bridge for utility and slog them up the board. Worth noting that I think in a setup like this you don't really need 2 Engineers unless you planned to split both units far away from the single Engineer.. in which case yeah, you need 2. The goal here is T1/2 deepstrike and kill as much as possible.. think like the old Gautfyre battalion? Basically you do it as soon as possible to negate a chance of them getting sniped. Hell... I think I may look at messing with this just for the fun of it rather than the competitive-sake of it 😉 If you're real insane, drop an Engineer for WLV.
  15. Gwendar
    Yeah, I love it.. mostly because I don't have math skills to do any of it myself as other's do. All stats need to be considered with caution of course.. while it's nice to have averages, once you start applying negative modifiers, additional saves, and extremely bad\good rolls then things get wonky. Still, it's important to understand what your units do on average so you can apply them to the right targets. I've seen Seraphon absolutely dominating on all the TTS tournaments.. and yeah, I'm not surprised at all. When me and my local guy were theory crafting it initially we almost always came to high Salamander + Skink shooting lists and that is definitely what seems to have prevailed. I still take Jezzails\WLC's simply because I play against plenty of armies that they're wonderful against and that will likely be the case in major tournaments... and while Seraphon heroes are small, they still will likely end up in the open a lot to be in range\LoS for buffs. I'm still waiting for my Skryre-tech based Eshin re-imagining. Maybe someday 😉
  16. Gwendar
    Yeah, it requires Skitterleap. Could do the same type of thing with a Warp-Grinder team of course, but at risk of hurting a unit. I would say you need 2 skitterleaps (so, a Deceiver + Grey Seer) so you can still be range to get a Spark out on the unit. Without any buffs, yeah they are terrible (even with a spark that's about 13 damage vs a 4+) but you would be buffing one with MMMWP and the other with Deranged Inventor. I don't know of it's viability because it's over half your list and only 2 threats (of course you can squeeze a 3rd in there), but I'm saying it's an option for those of us who still have 9+ Fiends laying around and want to buy another 3 to try it out 😉. Of course if you fail MMMWP then you go from doing 55-60+ damage altogether to doing about half that.. worth exploring. I'm still going to vouch for dual WLC or 9 Jezzails simply because things like Seraphon among other things are roaming around and need long range MW output to kill off those important heroes. Stats below:
  17. Gwendar
    Nice discussion, would be interested to see some of your more recent lists that have doing well for you. Hearing that you value Gutter Runners so much has me curious. Hell, I've even almost considered running 2x6 Fiends and giving the Gnawbomb trick a go 😅
  18. Gwendar
    I'm beginning to think if you want to run HPA's then you may be better off running double HPA.. maybe even a Master Moulder? Of course at that point you're sitting 80 points above Thanquol + WLV and I'm not sure if it compares to the utility of Thanquol. I'm just not a huge fan of Monks, but I recognize they're still a good comp option so I may just finish basing them and give them a go again... Acolytes do incredibly well in my local meta, but I don't imagine they will in a tournament setting so I'm with you on wanting to keep around the Fiends. I've gotten out of the "you need a Bridge with these" phase as I think that was only prevalent when we had 9 Fiend lists. Your list is pretty close to what I have mostly settled on.. although I really feel the need to take 2 WLC's or 9 Jezzails. So once things start opening back up I think I may give it a go in prep for these tournaments I'm heading to. Having Thanquol on a potential +3 to cast (+4 if you're still sitting in deployment on T2 waiting for that Orruk\Ogre army to crash into you) is great if the Bell continually rolls average.. though with my luck I generally just get the Peal of Doom result which does nothing most of the time 😉 I'm still wary of only having 1 Engineer as so much of the damage is coming out of those Fiends. Seraphon will easily pop it on a double turn with their wonderful board wide Comet 🙄.. I've yet to play new Seraphon since that's when the lockdowns started occurring, but I've noticed they're dominating TTS tournaments and I'm not shocked in the slightest. We have a competitive Seraphon player who I play against a lot (who is also going to Nashcon with me) that I've really wanted to test some things out against. The MW's go off when a unit is charged as well. Run something over, shoot, then charge it. It's why running 2 of them can actually do quite well for how cheap they are. Another thing I've been working out is 2 WLC's vs 9 Jezzails. For 60 less points, I can get about the same damage if both WLC's are overcharged.. this is of course assuming the average roll of 4+ on power dice and the Jezzails are getting +1 damage. Even if you shoot them normally, combined it's likely enough to pop a support hero. If you calculate Jezzails as hitting on 5+'s with Lo,S then you're really just fishing for MW's at that point.. which means ~7 damage. Still enough damage, but a larger footprint that costs more, even IF it has longer range. I think I may try the following next time I get to play:
  19. Gwendar
    Fiddling with ideas today.. trying to gauge the current meta and how to counter it, but I continue to draw some blanks when it comes to us having proper answers. I've put my 3-5 Ratling Gun Team lists on hold for now as I'm not entirely sure how they'll hold up.. especially if the Bridge does actually get nerfed to allow 1 unit across. To start off, I'm using my core of 2 Engineers, 3x20 Clanrats and 6 Fiends. More and more I've been considering reintroducing the Thanquol + WLV combo into lists.. combine that with Fiends and 9 Jezzails\2 WLC's and you have the standard 3 (or 4 if you count WLV) threat list that covers horde clearing and single-target output. Now, here is where I get a little tied up; drop Thanquol for (what I normally run) with an HPA + Doomwheel. HPA: If you compare the damage of a non-bracketed HPA to non-bracketed Thanquol (and this is assuming both can get 20 models in range of their respective horde clearing options and Thanquol is modeled 50/50 on his weapons) they're very close to each other on average. The difference here is that the HPA can be sneezed at and it will drop 2 brackets; against any spell\shooting focused list it may not make it in.. not that many units can stand up to 30 Irondrakes or 9 Flamers by any means 😉 Doomwheel: So this being 4d6" is far less random on average. This thing tends to work well enough for me for 160 points because it's generally a nuisance... but it can be a deadly nuisance with double-triggering MW's combined with it's shooting profile. When talking about the Thanquol + WLV setup, the Doomwheel is the WLV; high threat range and lots of MW output. So, I figured I would throw this out there for some discussion. If it isn't already known, this is coming from a competitive standpoint; I know running 4 Doomwheels would be fun and all but that isn't what I'm looking for 😅. Does this discussion even matter now? Will the GHB be out soon and change the meta in various ways or allow us to actually take 40 Stormvermin as a CC option without them costing 400+ points? Should I just run 2 HPA's and 2 Doomwheels? Who knows.. but I just wanted to get some conversation going.
  20. Gwendar
    In previous editions you would measure distance from any part of the model, which was idiotic more or less due to being gamey about modeling your armies for advantage. Line of Sight however is still measured from any part of the model.. so that also can lead to gamey scenarios where you thought your model wasn't visible, but a small piece of your boot was visible from the tip of an enemy models sword... so yeah. I will agree we got a little overnerfed when compared to other factions who have more egregious mechanics and killing power.. but we do still have plenty of tricks and units that we can make use of that compare quite well. The biggest losses for me are 9 Fiends and Stormvermin being overcosted (as I've said before, with their current warscroll I think they need to come down to 350-380 for 40) but other than that I've been able to make due quite well. On an unrelated note, I pre-registered for Nashcon now, so (pandemic willing) looks like I'll be heading to both Nashcon and NOVA this year for my major tournaments.. interesting to see how they go. We hopefully will get the GHB assuming it hasn't been delayed so I'm definitely looking forward to what may change overall and with us specifically on that release.
  21. Gwendar
    I know they're doing a lot of changes to FW, both model and rules-wise.. I don't think that's the case with AoS. 40k.. maybe? I dunno, I don't keep track of that game 😉 If anything is going to be re-written in AoS, it's going to come in the form of a new edition or new GHB.. doubtful it would be anything done out of nowhere.
  22. Gwendar
    Yeah, the Rogue Idol is pretty deceptively strong honestly.. there's a reason it's in nearly every competitive Orruk list 😅 If you're running Vermin, I think a Clawlord is absolutely necessary for sure. Some people pick the Brood Horror variant as I believe you can spam it's CA due to it not having the same "only once per phase" limit the normal Clawlord does.. problem is that we are always starving for CP. Not to mention it's likely an oversight since it has the same name? Hard to say since a good amount of CA's can be spammed in other armies. As for Acolytes and the Bell... I get it. Acolytes are definitely harder to use and I really miss them being on 25's.. a change I really felt was necessary but so were a few other changes we've had so, oh well. I continually re-integrate the Bell in some lists but it never pays off for me either. If I had 100 leftover points I would take it instead of the foot variant but.. generally we end up 90 or less shy so it never works out.
  23. Gwendar
    Nice! Did you feel the Warbringer was worth it? If not, you could drop it and just a Grey Seer with Death Frenzy. You miss the inherent power of a VL and having it hand out RR 1's to hit\wound but you could fit in a bit more. Dropping that would give you an alternate list that incorporates Bridge and 2 WLC's.. of course I'm sure you could find a myriad of other uses for those points as well. I guess what this does is swap some of the SV power for some extra shooting and utility from the Bridge. @Skreech Verminking such is the nature of the game.. luckily we could do the same if we get the double. Just wish our battalions weren't so terrible since we can't get down to nearly enough drops to matter when the average is 4-6 compared to our average of 8+. I'm still waiting to see what happens to the double turn, if anything. And no, we aren't bad.. I think we've all laid out plenty of good changes to bump us up some. I like playing the underdog factions anyway usually so I don't mind if we got worse 😉
  24. Gwendar
    I like the idea for sure. I think it would be countered by Tzeentch, CoS, KO and Seraphon with shooting and long-range multi hit spells\endless spells. I feel like Bridge would be good to bring in this list to get them closer when needed; trying to move all those short range teams up the board could be detrimental but.. hard to say of course. Depends who you play 😉 Overall I feel the current meta just doesn't favor us exceptionally well, although we can definitely compete. The above armies can give us issues, but the CC oriented ones will have trouble dealing with Skaven still. I'd like to see it ran, for sure, whenever you get a chance to play again.
  25. Gwendar
    In my signature 😉 https://www.tga.community/blogs/blog/372-gwendars-batreps/ Some stuff will be outdated of course, based on when it was played.. and of course I haven't been able to play in months, so there's that as well.
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