Noserenda

IDK as a destruction? Meh IDK as Death? Signing up to Daddy Nagash in exchange for a soul tithe and military service? Oooh yeah

Advertising is about more than just awareness, im "aware" that the various AoS forces exist and their broad concepts. I have no idea on the rules details for most of them or how they interact with each other. Been burned far too many times by pretty minis with toss rules to drop cash on things without seeing them first. How does website traffic jam sales exactly? You really need to explain that.

I play one opponent a lot more than others but we typically switch up the game enough to keep things fresh. Still dooable with one game i guess, try different points values are the broader experience of narrative or open play as they are usually a lot more interesting than matched.

Yeah drawing in traffic is really all upside, with the possible exception of release morning for something popular, which is relatively rare time wise. I mean ultimately thats all any rules are, marketing for the minis.

Exactly that, ill usually plan out an army as the second step in seriously considering it and if GW does not want to support that it just means ill spend less money with them, its much easier to spur on spending on the GW website rather than wahapedia after all.

We have never had an AoS system reset, (though arguably AoS is a Warhammer system reset) and 40k has only had 2 so no, they arent frequent A system reset means toss out all your old books its new rules time, most edition changes are tweaks and revisions So really, as Eccentric circle points out, D&D is even well ahead by your own admission Digital rules are great and something GW should be supporting rather than trying to stop, but wargamers are still very tied into physical books and as mentioned getting stuck with a clunker sucks even with faqs and such, some design is so bad it cant be fixed with a points tweak.

I mean its worth mentioning the specialist and boxed games all have their own teams and plastic budgets, its not a zero sum game with AoS (or 40k) and they can both have development time

We have had decade long codexes and army books before, it was a fairly awful experience for those armies tbh, getting increasingly irrelevant and marginalised. I think a decent refresh every few years (whether a new battletome or WD/campaign book expansion) is a good thing to shake things up and then a system reset every decade or so to ferret out the bad design choices and simplify what has inevitably become a bit of a rules bramble. 40k was especially bad for this by 7th edition, the movement phase for example was bending over backwards to not give units a simple move stat and it meant pages of rules, with edge cases and oddities all over. Its also worth mentioning that D&D has a completely different book selling structure to AoS, a dedicated D&D collector will have bought dozens of weighty hardback books in that time compared to a battletome, rulebook and a campaign expansion or two. That or their GM has and they have bought ****** all anyway

Spoke too soon, here it is: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/25/grab-your-giant-sword-and-leather-belts-warcry-has-a-new-marauder-in-town/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_campaign=AoS&utm_id=Facebook&utm_content=AoSNewmodelmondaywarcry25Oct21&fbclid=IwAR3ewF4he09F9GMx1tjOH1F44IU-CzLy2VaE8pg1McVZ4_4kydmay_iXhTg Guess that kills the 4chan rumour dead immediately then?

Where is that from? Not seeing a new article on the community page yet?

I mean they are though, arent they. The one exception being Chaos worshippers who with the exception of beastmen at some point made that choice. Every Orkoid is destruction, every Ogre and every elf/dwarf/human is order, even when the factions might make more sense elsewhere. I mean its a really big leap to say all the Order factions are good when you have all the former dark elves still up to their murdering ways, or the fairly amoral fyreslayers, or the soul stealing Idoneth...

The obvious answer would be to split the Order faction down tbh, Morathi gets booted/quits out for the many good reasons and takes her allies and other malcontents with her. Make specific cities of "sigmar" choose sides Ive been over why the grand alliances dividing by species is a stupid idea a lot of times before, id honestly rather see things completely fragment with specific allies lists or more and smaller alliances possibly based off what gods they worship and how the pantheons are going as a shorthand, so if say, Sigmar and Grungi have a breakup its simple to resolve in future.

Well if it is accurate he just cost his "buddy" his job, thats waaaaay too much identifying info to be sharing. The Khorne start collecting is the mixed sprue out of AoS1 isnt it? I really doubt thats getting broken up as the retooling costs would be savage for kits they know wont sell well individually either. Given the "tone" just sounds like someone trying to add some clout to their whine, but i suspect we shall see on Saturday.

Im not sure quite how you can say its not anticonsumer to take something free and put a price on it? Thats pretty much the definition of it.

I think you are being wildly inaccurate with the Stereotyping there Daark, people were playing Heresy on a budget before Forgeworld resin and hordes did it once we had those accessible plastic starters with a free bonus game included Black books already managed a couple of edition shifts fine, Betrayal was written for 5th even though 6th slightly predates it after all, and by the time 8th rolled around half of the black books already had obsolete rules content, which is fine, they are godawful rulebooks anyway (lugging 3 around for a weekend event at WHW was character developing...) their value is in being gorgeous and full of fluff after all! Nooo FW got screwed over by the GW studio and then their star writer (and it seems pillar of the team) tragically died at the same time, they were screwed and desperately scrabbling to get the 40k indexes out let alone update the whole bevvy of 30k related rules, sooo they improvised reprinted the 7th ed rulebook with some FAQs built in and minor additions for the existing extra universal special rules and marked it "good enough" and left the game to limp on for a while. 90+% of the Heresy players i know have moved on to other stuff while its been neglected, what you currently have is absolute fanatics and 7th ed obsessives really, but the tip of the iceberg as far as player base goes. I am hoping a new edition fixes some of the current system problems and uneven rules but that seems to have been pushed back again I think the first Red books were back in 6th too? Regardless the current ones are a second edition, not something new.

I dont think it was ever "marketed" in those terms, the most they ever came out with was "more granular" but i think for all their sins the 40k team has solidly proven that to be ridiculous, at least in terms of differentiating sub factions. It was something fans of the product frequently spouted off though. I think ultimately AoD was most popular and successful as a 40k expansion with crossover potential and the major reason it ended up a separate system was Forgeworld being left out of the 8th edition loop entirely and the knock on problems from that. Then with the new starter delayed considerably (it was apparently meant to be out last year) they just figured no news was good news so until recently its just been rolling on momentum Obviously Old World would not really work as a AoS expansion as the rules concepts and even basing is incompatible but i think having the models crossover may well be what the system lives or dies on, investing in a new system is always a gamble and a warhammer army is not a small investment! Having AoS to fall back on if it does not take off in your groups is a good safety net imho.

I wouldnt expect OW to follow the current AoD model because its godawful* and FW knows it, i would expect he upcoming box to switch it over to the more common Specialist games model where you just need a one rulebook and one splatbook to play your army with a decent plastic range to support the game ala Necromunda or Adeptus Titanicus. They have announced or implied a wildly optimistic set of releases for Old World, we shall see how that actually rolls out in a few years *Having to drop well over £100 on rulebooks for some armies before buying even a single extremely pricy model is objectively bad, come on.

I mean, thats deliberately missing my point right? Or did i forget the time Valnir fought Itzi Bitzi to near death, only to be saved by Valmir von Raukov (The Elector count plot forgot) in a dramatic twist. There adozens of old Warhammer special characters who never got a mention past their armylist entries or maybe a "This guy was here too" mention. its always been the case, and id argue it was more common in WArhammer simply because they went through a phase of adding a dozen special characters in the army books with no real intent to do anything with them (Albeit more so in 40k i think). 90% of all models have always been designed because the model designers think of something cool to do, and the story and rules have always been flexed around that. Which is also i suspect what causes this issue as the add more and more centrepiece models to armies to push GWs advantage in model making and in AoS that mostly means gods. The number of main release minis who exist because of background or stories is extremely small, (which is why the annual Black library releases have been so good) and a lot of them like Malekith changed considerably to fit the models in many cases, going from his special chariot to riding a dragon because they made a cool new Dragon riding character that should be important for example. The story has always been in service to the game, which is in turn in service to the models, not the other way around. The High elves are easy to pick as all being significant because authors and fluff writers got interested in them and wrote a whole load of plot around them, pushed on by significant mini sales of that range, which itself pushes sales ofc, in a whole snake eating its tail way I think the real problem is (from memory) most the AoS novels have been very stormcast focused, or somewhat away from the battlefields dealing with different types of characters, if AoS had series focusing more broadly on wars, or character focused pieces like Warhammer had, you would get the same effect. Meanwhile, the plot constantly moves on, people are not focused on the same conflict like Karak Eight peaks, or the Elven Civil war for a decade or more of real time, theyve seen twelves campaigns in seven realms in that time. :) Im referring to characters in the game sense, so unique characters. Otherwise if we included everyone from novels etc there would be a need for hundreds more minis. More female representation would be nice though! Its actually a lot more plausible in AOS at least where teleportation is fairly commonplace for several forces and anyone can use a realmgate. The same thing happened in the Old world but there was no fast travel methods to try and explain it easily, its a mjor part of why AoS is built the way it is so any force can go anywhere and fight anyone so they dont have to explain why Tomb kings and Savage Orcs are fighting in Kislev for some reason.

I think people view old Warhammer through very rose tinted specs, there may not have been gods but there were definitely A-tier characters who filled the same roles, whether through good stories, OP rules or models you saw some characters constantly while dozens of others just got ignored and forgotten. Essentially nothing has changed, well, except every character gets a mini these days.

Pretty unlikely if they stick with the old rules as adapted bases are bigger and that makes a significant difference mechanically. That said if they push for bigger square bases it could be dooable and would soften the blow of trying to rank minis up, or making boring minis to achieve it.

Exactly this, unless you are secretly one of those original writers/artists

As written, the Southlands is a three way battlefield between Lizardmen, Savage Orcs and Terrible racist caricatures with the Odd rogue Tomb king unfortunately

Eh, i dont think AoS has much to worry about from OW, it wildly outsells Warhammer of old and im fairly convinced they are biting off more than they can chew with OW, its still years from release and they seem fixated on no cross play and also supporting a dozen armies or more off the bat on a Specialist game budget. Id like it to do well but i suspect its going to go poorly.

Yeah who would have guessed the tiny initial offerings were front loading?