Frozenbeast

So I personally think Nighyhaunt is a big topic in general as a lot of ppl are playing them atm. I assume that the reason why ppl prefers Gavespawn over other greayfreys or vanilla is because the only way to deal with nighthaunt atm is dashing out more attacks as on the big number even 50/50 chance of save is not enought especially if those wounds trigger multiple dmg. That said (and this is definetly not the only reason why ppl play gavespawn, just one of them), speaking of bullgors you might be right, in a meta full of Nighthaunt and unrendable VLoZD, the great axe definetly looses points although not in favour of shield for sure imo, as BoC are vulnerable in any case and will die to many many things: also a dead opponent cannot deal dmg back. I see DHW be more effective than shield in trying to deal with nighthaunt as the rerolling 1s to hit gives you higher chances of having more dice to roll to trigger those MW. Ultimately if you use gavespawn CA multiple times on the GA bullgors the effect will anyway be a higher chance of both MW and more dmg due to the dmg 3 of the weapon themselves. So in any case is a win-win.

Welcome back to the herd fellow horned man. I hope your next battles will bring you glory! So let's develop one thought at a time: Darkwalkers is a Greafrey and as the other two is an optional Keyword you add to your army that provides you with a set of powerful rules at the cost of binding ou to certain pick when it comes to traits and sartifacts. Let's consider Darkwalkers: the trait for this Greatfrey tells you that you treat Warherd (Doombulls, Bullgors, etc...) and Thunderscorn (Shaggoth and Dragonogors) as having the Brayherd keyword for the purpos of ambush. What does this mean though? It means that you can ambush your bullgors and dragonogors like the little goats do following the rules the little goats follow; so you can deploy them NOT on the table but you have to have at least the same amount of BEAST OF CHAOS units deployed on the table. In addition you can set up up to half of your ambushers (that now include Warherd and Thuderscorn) in the second battle round instead of having to do it in the first for all your units. Now to the second thought: Desolating Beastherd and battalions. Battalions can be deployed in different ways: you can either deploy all the units at once or do it one unit at a time or deploy some unit individually and the rest all at once. How do you deploy a units? You can either drop it on the board or leave it in reserve. To leave a unit in reserve when deployng your army count as that unit being deployed so as long as you declare which unit is being deployed and which one is kept in reserve (aka Ambush) you can drop them all at once or one by one. Now let's have an example mixing the two thoughts: you have 7 units of Beast of Chaos in a Desolating Beastherd and they belong to the Darkkwalkers greatfrey. You can ambush up to 3 units (as you have to have at least the same amount of units on the board) but you decide you wanna ambush only 2. During deployment, what you can do, is either decide to drop everything at the same time so 5 units on the board and 2 Ambushing (declaring which ones); deploy 1 by 1 declaring, when you deploy them, which one is Ambushing and which one you actually drop on the board; or drop one unit, then your opponent drops one, then you decide you wanna drop everything else (declaring which one are ambushing and deploying the rest). The battle starts. You have priority and decide to give your opponent the first turn. In you first turn you have to set up your ambushers. Although Darkwalkers makes you choose to leave half of your ambushers (in this case 1 unit out of 2 you have in ambush) and bring them in in your second turn. And you decide to do that; so you set up 1 of those units you left in ambush wholly within 6" on any table edge and more than 9" away from any enemy unit. The first round ends, our opponent wins priority and he decided you can play first. At this point you have to bring in the last unit you left in ambush in the same way you deployed the first one in the last turn. All this applys alongside all battalion own rules, so if you decide to set up your ambushers in your enemy territory, of course they will get the bonus that the battalion grants them. I know this is a lot of explanation and I could not think of a shorter way to do it whitout being ambiguous and confusing. I hope this helps but I encourage you to go read carefully all the rules you have mentioned one by one startig with how you deploy units on the field at the start of the battle and going up to the specific ones from the book as all of these rules overlap each other and none of them exclude the other. Make sure you understand the basics before you apply the advanced rules. Anyway hope I was helpful and you can wrap your head around this dilemma. Cheers

I think the comparison is not to be dobe with Bestigors but with ungors. Taken in big blocks there is not much of a difference and ungors are 10 pts less (that on a big numbers they stack becoming 20 pts or 30 and that canmake the difference between having a cygor or a ghorgon). Gors: -30 wounds -4+ save -2a each (when still above 20 models) -32 mm base meaning 1 rank only attacks -4+ 4+ - 1 -210 pts Ungors: -40 wounds -5+ save - 1a each (rerolling 1s 2s to hit if more than 30) -25mm base meaning tgey always push in the second rank for attacks -4+ 4+ - 1 -200 pts IMO the comparison is grately in favor of ungors as their disadvantage are made up for from the advantage they have on gors. That said I ll make you guys make your own decision (let me know if I forgot something I ll add it) and of course everyone is entitled of playing what they want. Take your pick Cheers

...yeah...I was a bike ride away from mine...before knowing mine was not at the shop and the delivery got delayed...so disappointed...

I beleive you can, and I am glad someone actually pulled it off (so at least we know for sure it is not just aLegend!? I am just saying it is soo hard to happen and situational.

Was playing with my "freshly squeezed" new rules!! And won BTW! Gifts from the heavens and of course the two comets fell on the opposite side to where I have ambushed the majority of my units but managed to win at last turn due to summoning basically. To be honest I was only using the Allegiance traits (so summoning Herdstone and the traits for Brayherd and Warherd) as new rules, no artifacts, no freys, no spells, no battalions (just to get used to the new warscrolls before dive deep into the sea of options this book gives us). 1. So what I saw is that we basically became a late game army; I ll explain: - the herdstone is not particularly useful for his buffs until round 3 range is too short unless you are playing against khorne or IJ or armies that run toward you. -if you roll bad on summoning points before turn 3 you cannot summon anything very beefy unless you play for it (so Allherd)(I manage barely to summon some bestigors turn 2). 2. Bestigors are insane on the charge against 10+ models and even against single characters they can dash some substantial dmg (31 A 3+(4+)/3+/-1/1 are enough to deal a great amount of dmg rolling average). And to add ashes to the fire 10-men units are very good either for ambushing (so you can fit them well) or for the GBS buff. I think now max you might wanna field is 20 or else they are gonna attract too much fire and you loose them ez anyway; 3. Bullgors and Doombull are still underwhelming without buffs from artifacts ability and magic. The horns are good addition for Bullgors but you don t feel the difference on the Doombull. Need further investigation on that; 4. big nerf to GBS ability. I would have liked better "units within 6"" rather than this as you HAVE to keep units close and if you don't is a big handbrake pull on your f1 car. BTW I managed t use Devolve spell this time and it changed my game but it has been one off, never managed to pull anything good out of it; 5. Summoning is gooooooood. Keep in mind I d rather we had some buff in stats than a summoning mechanics as I feel it is more thematic; nonetheless summoning won me the game as I summoned 10 Bestigors where I needed them and managed to charge them onto the objective for the score. Despite how good Gavespawn and Darkwalker look on paper I foresee Allherd being very competitive with the summoning mechanics being able to summon an average of 2 units every 2 turns one of them being a big monster! I think this is it for now I am sure being able to use everything else I have not use will give us a ****** big boost in the next months.

And how do you clear 40 clanrats three times?

This is also a pretty hard situation to pull out. On paper the thing works, but then in practice you ll find yourself very few times in a similar but still worst situation due to the fact that that combo works in that and that only situation. In any other situation you are not gonna be even close to that efficiency. I personally never found myself in the position to pull that out either because my enemy was not holding on movement or because obj were in the middle of the table hence I had to move that 20 man unit of EG not being able to activate the ability. This almost always result in your unit being wiped out by anything that touches it before you can use FoB. If somebody managed to do good with it please let me know, but so far nobody pulled that combo off.

I don t think the Herdstone rule was directed to resolve the Nighthaunt problem (for us they are a problem as we don t have as many attacks to compensate the high armor they have). I think that is directed to all those high armor armies (like SCE) that for us are untouchable at the moment. From next week on we will have an answer to both NH and SCE in the form of many attacks (from Bestigors, Bullgors, Chimeras, Dragon Ogors, etc...) and rend from the Herdstone and the abilities from the heroes.

And what about MSU now? not for gors of course as they get +1A when more than 20 but for other units. Bestigors now are strong enought to be a threat in 10 man units and Ungors either for chaff or sacrifice they are good in 10 only...Any thought?

The Movement buff changes from the GBS are a bit of a bummer! It will be harder to keep 30 models WHOLLY within 12" of it! I was expecting a change but more like 15" or 18". Now I guess we will have to bubble wrap it in a unit.

I think it has been said they upped the points to 160 which was to be expected. Now he is strong still and you wanna get him in combat anyway as the profile does not get worst.

I guess all of us that stubbornly decided to continue to play Brayherd or Warherd only army are not good players just for continuing playing a bad faction then!! ?

You might as well go with second unit of WR and a second Spellweaver outside the battallion. you'll have anyway 10 wounds to shield your core units plus they are fast and high bravery and you'll have a second free dispell during the game.

that has always been my interpretation of the rule as it does not specify, at least at present, a max of dice you can roll (like "roll a dice up until the model has wounds available" or something like that) so I imagine that no matter how many wounds he suffer (another point of discussion would be: wound suffered is intended before of after saves?) you roll that many dice and for every 4+ etc etc...

Why not Anraheir's claw then (2 more dmg on a 6+ to wound) as it rerolls wounds against heroes having a higher chance to roll a 6. But you said it, these are just speculations we need the book to see what they gave us in terms of magic, traits, greatfreays, etc..

I think the point of the battalion might just be the extra artifact it gives you. I think it is anyway valuable to have a starscaster longbow for a final MW on 2 when lucky. The extra round of shooting can end up being useful but it is a tool rather than a reliability you can build your army around imo.

??ARMOR MELTING WAVE OF ENTROPYYYYY!!! ??

So let's hope for some nasty synergies from traits and artifacts in order to be able to activate that easier.

What s the twist @adreal?

I played a couple of skaven and against both there was something they were claming make the clanrats not testing and one indeed was the CoC but the other was not a CPbecause they were not declaeing it. I only played against a couple of time and I don t play them so I believe you I am just saying that those two times no matter the dmg, those rats were not testing BS so something was wrong. ? Btw any of those were pestilens.

Everybody says we are no gonna get new models a part from those we saw already so endless spells and the stone. I d be surprised if they announce something new before NOVA ends.

Fimirs are Destruction @Popisdeadnono you get it right i m jist explaining myself badly. Doesn t really matter i guess... We are GETTING A BOOK!!!! ?

That is exacly my point. You normally think at horde armies as armies you can beat on bravery or that is easier that they fall from battleshock rather than die because of attacks. And at present we do (and maybe one more army a part from us) but all the other horde army (I made the example of some like undead, boneslpitterz, skaven) have rules that make them kinda immune to that part so that is why I am saying that the bravery/battleshock part of the game does not really apply anymore (a part from us).

6" to be precise. That with massive unnits did not help at all. @Popisdead well the whole "they are horde they have to have low bravery" thing does not apply anymore though. Look at LON is true they are dead but they do not suffer bravery and they are horde. If we wanna make an easier example, skaven don t test, they just need 2 warlords and they are fine and they are horde. Bonesplitterz... 2 wounds each, they are fiiine!!