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Malakree

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Posts posted by Malakree

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    32 minutes ago, acr0ssth3p0nd said:

    I first started playing Warhammer in The Old World with Orcs and Goblins, and the old Black Orcs/current 'Ardboyz kit has a tonne of nostalgia attached to it for me, as well as the concept of the black orcs in general.

    What I'm trying to say is, I'd really like to see Ironjawz get a more-elite version of 'Ardboyz, or something like that. Lean into some Old World black orcs disciplined-professional, march-in-ranks-with-banners-and-drummers vibes! I'm not talking Brutes, who are described as being about smashin' and finding da biggest enemy on the battlefield, and certainly don't have banners or musicians or any real semblance of discipline. This is more like an updated, bigger 'Ardboy model that more-closely matches the Ironjawz aesthetic.

    Each unit carries their banner with pride and attaches trophies of the units they've slain to it. They use drummers to keep a beat because they know it works to make them stronger and better at fighting by keeping them marching together. In battle they're watching out for their mates and working as something like a cohesive whole. Their kit may be beaten, but it's always well-kept and maintained as a matter of pride - and these Orruks takes something akin to professional pride in their work not just as fighters, but as soldiers. The Ironsunz, with all their "clever taktiks," would love these guys.

    Their bosses would even care about things like supplies and logistics as part of keeping a good Waaagh! going for as long as possible. For example, where other Warbosses would look down on a contingent of Grots tagging along, these Warbosses would recognise the Grots' usefulness as a self-propelled food supply. A perfect combo of Kunnin' and Brutal!

    Dunno, would be a nice detail to add onto the standard "what if orruks... but with armor!" Add some nuance to the Ironjawz, you know?

    Problem is thats not really consistent the ironjawz lore. Orruks get bigger and stronger as they flight and win, so the ardboys are aspirants to become brutes.

    What you're describing is the Kruleboyz.

    • Confused 2

    AoS3 - Kruleboyz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted · Edited by Malakree

    1 hour ago, Stux said:

    Mirebrute doesn't have the battleshock protection. Most builds are going to want a Killaboss. Gnashtoof is for when you have have 60pts spare over a basic Killaboss and you can't spend it on anything else. Which isn't a great niche admittedly...

    Important to point out that the gnashtooth is a mount so it can take Fast Un, Weird Un and Smelly Un, it's a free bonus if you aren't running any other mounted units for some reason.

    EDIT: Just a thought while I'm browsing here to see what people thing about the various Kruleboyz stuff ;) 

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    So getting a better look at some of the warscrolls etc. after getting my battletome this morning. Morgok's Krushas are not bad for 90points. Makes them 5 points more expensive than Ardboys, 9 wounds not 10 but the attacks characteristics are so much better. Not to mention they get the +1 to hit against 4+ wounds.

    On the other hand Ironskull's boyz are mental. Basha and Hakka are both just better versions of ardboys. They get +1 to hit and have -1 rend in addition. Bonekutta has 1 less attack but gets +1 damage and -1 rend. Gurzag has a mental 5 attacks, 3+/3+/1/1. He's strictly better than a prenerf Ardboys boss. The real icing on the top though is the unit wide 6+ ward save which goes to 5+ for Gurzag. Sure you lose a model and 2 wounds but they are even 5 points cheaper than standard ardboys!

     

    • Like 2
    • LOVE IT! 1

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    8 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

    Yeah just noticed that.

    That one sentence that isn’t quite part of the command ability, that just takes that possibility away from me.

    If it wouldn’t be for that meddling sentence, my warplightning cannon could have escaped with shooting thrice in a single turn.

    sad, sad rat

    Yeah you'll just have to deal with having all your arti in combat with goregruntas thus unable to ever shoot the MKs.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

    Recharge add the end of the movement phase.

    Wow that is amazing!

    So I’ll be able to use unleash hell a second time in that turn😂.

     

    Combat phase.

    You can't unleash hell outside of the charge phase.

     

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    44 minutes ago, Vastianos said:

    Are 10 'Ardboyz still better then 5 brutes points wise? Throwing both profiles into age of sigmulator and averaging 4 wounds for both units against a unit that has a 4+ armor save, except you get more wounds with a unit of Ardboyz.

    Brutes are superior offensively with both great damage and a bonkers ability. Ardboys are better defensively because of greater wounds, model count and the ward save.

    Personally I wouldn't rate units of 5 Brutes but units of 10 are awesome. Units of 10 ardboys on the other hand are a tanky pain in the ****** and the rally bonus is nuts. 

    IMO 10ardboys > 5 Brutes. 10 Brutes > 15 ardboys.

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    4 hours ago, r0olz said:

    I am not entirely sure it will. It doesn't have any Orruks on it, only Grots and a Troggoth. The Hobgrot Slittaz have the Hobgrot keyword but not the Grot key word, cause they aren't Grots and in the lore fight with the kruelboyz. I am starting to think this Sloggoth is specifically there as is, like the last of the Gitmob Grots, literally, riding around on a Troggoth, which is why they can only be in Big Waagh. Lore wise it makes sense. They have no leader or allegiance, and since there isn't an Orruk riding the thing bossing them around, they only join the Big Waaghs when the energy is pumping, hence "friendly" and boy do I hope this stays. It makes sense thematically. 

    It doesn't need the orruk keyword, just the Kruleboyz keyword. Same way hobgrots aren't orruks but have the Kruleboyz keyword. It just means they won't benifit from the venom weapons.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    26 minutes ago, r0olz said:

    So by that logic, the Marshcrawler Sloggoth Troggoth can't be in a Kruelboyz army, only Big Waaagh because it doesn't have the Kruelboyz Keyword!

    Just checked, actually correct. I suspect it'll be errata'd real quick but atm you can't run it in a Kruleboyz army.

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    33 minutes ago, Vastianos said:

    In the tome reviews on the page proceeding the three factions and big waagh there is a page titled "The Green Tide." It states when you pick units for each of the factions it must contain that factions keyword, for example if you choose the kruelboyz faction you can only select units with the kruelboyz keyword.

    The exception are the big waagh and allies, of which we only have gloomspite as listed allies.

    It specifically says Orruk Warclans units so it doesn't discount things like the Megagargant allies.

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted · Edited by Malakree

    @Gothmaug @Jabbuk@Smash @Lanoss

    To quote the Rulebook

    Quote

    There are 4 different types of Orruk Warclans army, and you must decide which type your Orruk Warcalns army will be. The 4 types of Orruk Warclans army are: Kruleboyz, Ironjawz, Bonesplitters and Big Waaagh!

    .....Choose an Ironjawz army, all ORRUK WARCLANS units in the army must have the IRONJAWZ keyword....

    It literally says no.

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    Just now, AaronWilson said:

    I mean yes I understand that but I'm not sure if it's the most viable tactic to retreat your melee unit out of combat to do nothing and get half your losses back, just feels situational 

    Obviously it is but I could see a few games over the past ~2 months where if I'd been able to do that it would have won me the game.

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted · Edited by Malakree

    3 minutes ago, AaronWilson said:

    You can't rally while engaged with a enemy no?

    Retreat in your movement phase, start of their hero phase you rally ;) 

    3 minutes ago, Nellit said:

    Hi all, new guy here. Just started building my first ironjawz list. Got start collecting box, brutes and maw-crusha. I could really use your advise on which weapon to choose. So what is go to weapon for pigs, brutes and maw-crusha?

    • MK is riptooth, honestly though for the cabbage I've never had any problem with it being what I say it is, 90% of people can't even tell which weapon is what.
    • Brutes are the 2handed spears and you use them in blocks of 10.
    • Gore-gruntas the general consensus is the Choppas but it isn't a massive difference, if there's an aesthetic preference you have it's not going to make a noticeable impact.

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted · Edited by Malakree

    11 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

    Dude, I've killed a full wounds Katakros only with the Voracious Maw of a Butcher, once 😁.
    So I know that somedays is Christmas... but it's somedays.

    Cabbage can be optimized to do only two things very well: tank OR beat the devil off ya.
    Tryin to pull in another direction makes him "jack of all trades/master of none".

    I guess, analysing my own thoughts on it (EDIT: self reflection here), if I'm taking arcane tome it's for mystic shield/lifeswarm, on that basis I'd rather have a hail mary which might win me an otherwise unwinable situation than an efficiency boost. So personal preference wise I'm not expecting to use whatever the "extra" spell is that often since I'd just pick mystic shield instead.

    Might be more inclined towards flaming weapon if we got MD hero phase fight back.

    3 minutes ago, AaronWilson said:

    You can only retreat in your own hero phase, so it would require you to retreat then stay out of combat. 

    Rally is either hero phase. So even if you lose prio you can use it at the start of their hero phase, with getting models back on a 4+ on a unit of 15 with 1 left you're looking +7 models which is mad.

    • Like 2

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    11 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

    For an 10+ cast that do D6 mortal wounds? With "Touched by the Waaagh!" your average roll is 2, so still 8+ to do something. Then roll the damage and then roll another dice, to roll another d6 🤔

    Your taste. For me is super unreliable even with the trait for wizards.

    If I'm not casting Mystic Shield or Lifeswarm I want something that is guna get me out of a massive hole in the group. Anyone who has had foot of gork do 50+ wounds in one cast knows what I'm talking about.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Smash said:

    Do we think there is gonna be an update regarding allies? So we can splash in a few savage orruks or kruel boyz? Would love to get some ranged support with a few bolt boyz or even a wurrgog prophet.

    I think the idea is that a Wurrgog Prophet would never joined a clan of Ironjawz, the only situation that happens is when they start forming together into a Big Waaagh! in that way Ironjawz would never actually be "allies" they are either a united force or two separate forces. There's also the fact that from a rules perspective each faction keeps one of the core aspects of their theme so Big Waaagh is no longer a single homogenous force but rather a gathering of the different powers into unified front.

    2 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

    Yep, in the 27.3 ENACHEMENTS paragraph of the FAQ the third question allows that. 

    So very dumb, still don't think I'd want it over foot of gork. If I'm casting a cheap ability it's going to be mystic shield or emerald lifeswarm :D 

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    42 minutes ago, Orkmann said:

    The discussion was mainly about double cabbage lists so thats min 2 drops. I personally still prefer one cabbabe as that suits my playstyle better, but even with that one drop lists feel too limited on the number of units.

    That's what I meant. If I can't get 1 drop then I'm aiming for 4/5. I refuse to run an IJ list without 2 WC so I'll have enough heroes to get the extra artefact if I can't 1 drop.

    I'll probably stick to double MK lists till I finish my next 10/15 Brutes. After that it's probably one of these.

    Allegiance: Da Choppas
    Leaders
    Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (495)
    - Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
    Orruk Warchanter (120)
    Orruk Warchanter (120)

    Battleline
    10 x Orruk Brutes (300)
    - Pair of Brute Choppas
    - Reinforced x 1
    10 x Orruk Brutes (300)
    - Pair of Brute Choppas
    - Reinforced x 1
    10 x Orruk Brutes (300)
    - Pair of Brute Choppas
    - Reinforced x 1
    10 x Orruk Ardboys (190)
    - Reinforced x 1
    3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)
    - Pig-iron Choppas

    Total: 1995 / 2000
    Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 152
    Drops: 1
     

    Allegiance: Da Choppas
    Leaders
    Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (495)
    - Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
    Orruk Warchanter (120)
    Orruk Warchanter (120)
    Orruk Weirdboss (160)
    - arcane tome 


    Battleline
    10 x Orruk Brutes (300)
    - Pair of Brute Choppas
    - Reinforced x 1
    10 x Orruk Brutes (300)
    - Pair of Brute Choppas
    - Reinforced x 1
    15 x Orruk Ardboys (285)
    - Reinforced x 2
    5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)
    5 x Orruk Ardboys (95)

    Endless Spells & Invocations
    Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

    Total: 2030 / 2000
    Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
    Wounds: 144
    Drops: 4
     

    First is obviously a 1 drop while the 2nd is 4 to get the arcane tome so the footboss becomes a weirdboss.

    I think every list I write now will be 1 drop, 4 drop or not have a battle regiment. IMO if you are going for a 2 drop you should just man up and go for the 1 drop or just take the enhancement powerspike. Otherwise you're doing both while getting the benefits of neither.

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Orkmann said:

    I believe the key question for IJ list building is how much drops you are aiming for. For me the conclusion for now is that it's time to move away from the "two artifacts meta" and take a double regiment for a two drop list instead.

    I personally think I'll always be aiming for 1 or 4/5 with the question being whether to take the extra drop for the warlord cp.

    5 hours ago, Orkmann said:

    to have one tanky and one killy version with metalrippa. Since the rippa is gone however, I don't see an artifact (besides of the amulet) which would be an auto take. 

    I actually found that a cabbage without the damage build was just not enough of a threat to justify it's points. I ran big Waaagh! because it provided the 6++ which let me go damage with everything else. Since the damage has been rolled into it's base stats I now think the defensive artefacts are worth it.

    4 hours ago, Holy_Diver said:

    Well Flaming Weapon is good too. It gives you the chance to go 5 damage on fists, as long you have violent fury on. 

    Can flaming weapon go on mount attacks? 

    5 hours ago, Orkmann said:

    If I were to take a second artifact, I'd probably take the arcane tome instead. The none general cabbage would get the amulet, and the general the tome with the +1 to wound spell and master of magic command trait for the reroll. 

    I'd grab the arcane tome. Mortal wound cast command trait and foot of gork. I'd be really tempted by that in big Waaagh with big G so I can be more blazee with my general.

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    5 hours ago, dnusha said:

    yeah that make sense. I dunno man, there are so many tactics "kill X with a monster for additional victory point" in 3rd edition. I'd rather pick destroyer or...emm right we don't really have any other good artefact (maybe boss pole vs minus bravery armies, ).

    Fast Un is actually so good, you can move 12' with Mighty Destroyers AND you can move 12' with a Fast un trait after that in Hero Phase, then you can move 12' in movement phase and then you can charge.

    OR you can Fast Un 12' and then charge enemy unit with Mighty Destroyers and it won't be able to Redeploy or Unleash Hell (becasue it's happening in a hero phase and ther's a mawcrusha looking at you in 3') (you can do Stomp anyway at the end of the charge PHASE)

    Swapping 2" move for a 6++ and +1 to hit isn't actually that bad the moment amulet of destiny is off the table.

    I agree that fast un has a bunch of really interesting option it provides and offsets the loss of that 2" by what is essentially a 10" move if I desperately need to do the turn 1 alpha.

    • Like 1

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    1 hour ago, dnusha said:

    But armour of gork is a trap artefact. Less movement and unit can't run in exchange for minor buffs. If it's MK (or any other hero) why would anyone want 6+ ward if you can have 5+ from amulet of destiny without any downsides. +1 to hit is not even that important if you have 3+.  And If you want +hit you can cast all out attack to re reroll 1 or debuff enemy unit with warchanters killa beat on 3+. (yeah CA seems easier). In Big Waagh +hit is not a problem either (BW buff and Trogg-with-a-cart)

    Because my first mawkrusha has the amulet of destiny 🤣 it means I get ward saves on both cabbages and can somewhat offset the move penalty with fast un.

    Essentially if I'm running a cabbage it has amulet of destiny, thus it's only actually a question as to what do I take on my 2nd cabbage 😁

    2 hours ago, Andrew G said:

    The gap between the two is relatively small, regardless, especially when looking at damage against 2+ save or turns GGs are not buffed. The choice of weapon doesn't impact how you're going to play the unit at all. So in the end... it probably doesn't matter which you pick. 

    This was actually my point, there are actually several upsides to the spears in terms of usability in 6s. Just because you can do the crazy formation in theory doesn't mean it can happen in games. There are always going to be choke points etc. Where what you're actually doing is gaining 6 attacks from the back row rather than 4 from the front. Combined with the bonus to impact mortals at 6s it's not strictly worse. Even in 3s I'd say it's only marginally worse.

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    11 minutes ago, Bolty said:

    And a wizard MK having been buffed by warcha'ter and casting flaming weapon could be huge. 

    I think I'd rather just take the fast un +armour of gork combo if that's the alternative. 

    Thus reason I might consider the foot of gork is the raw potential it gives. Anyone who used it preremoval has had those games where it decides the opponent doesn't need their stuff. Flaming weapon isn't in that league when you consider that the boss is now secondary to the mk fists. Something that's not true before the book release. 

    Bonesplitters are brilliant now and the maths that show it.

    in Destruction

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

    Losing the magic feels like much less of a blow now I've look at this.  Sure stacking buffs is hard for us now, but we don't really need them (offensively).  This makes use less dependant on heros and removes one of our major weakspots (hero sniping).

    One point is that with so many heafty casters dominating the meta atm relying on spells to do stuff is just asking to get dumped on.

    • Like 1

    Bonesplitters are brilliant now and the maths that show it.

    in Destruction

    Posted

    Spoiler

    Allegiance: Bonesplitterz

    Leaders
    Maniak Weirdnob (130)
    Wardokk (85)
    Wardokk (85)

    Battleline
    30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (390)
    - Reinforced x 2
    20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (260)
    - Reinforced x 1
    20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (260)
    - Reinforced x 1
    10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (130)
    10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (130)
    10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (130)
    10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (130)
    10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (130)

    Total: 1860 / 2000
    Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 256
    Drops: 11

    This is 2000 points, 3 shots each in bonegrinz, be an absolute nightmare to remove them all. Also worth noting that the maniak weirdnob can actually take a mount trait because the monster keyword is only a prerequisite for 3 of the 6 mount traits.

    • Like 2

    AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

    in Destruction

    Posted

    6 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

    All of this is correct, it's just that you are giving up 3 solid attacks for an extra half a mortal on average. You're more likely to get a second charge of you wipe the first unit, and the extra choppa attacks are more likely to get that done. If it was a 4+ trigger with hackas giving +2 I'd be more sympathetic.

    Personally I value mortal wounds quite highly especially given the current save environment. I also value damage which comes out in unusual phases, as it allows for shenanigans.

    My point is that it's not as cut and dry as you are making it seem, especially in bloodtoofs armies with units of 6.

    4 hours ago, Carnith said:

    Take a look at the command trait for Ironjaw Wizards.

    I considered the arcane cabbage mainly to be able to cast lifeswarm and then took foot because it's foot of gork. Did NOT consider the +cast command trait, That's awesome.

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