decker_cky
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Everything posted by decker_cky
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The rend spell is likely only available to Beasts of Chaos armies. I think I saw somewhere that StD are allowed as allies for Beasts of Chaos, and if so I'm sure the chaos sorcerer + shaggoth combo will be popular, but allied shaggoths don't have that same general utility.
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BTW, just did the odds, and no need to remake your bullgors - great weapons are still the better unit unless the target is effectively a 6+ save or is a nighthaunt. The extra shot at bloodgreed doesn't cover the gap.
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Against 4+ save, 0.25 extra wounds (no buff) or 0.33 extra wounds (doombull command ability). Obviously this benefits a lot from any rend buff. Assuming all else remained the same, vs 4+ save target, outside buffs: a single old bullgor caused an average 1.8 unsaved wounds; and a new bullgor causes an average 2.25 unsaved wounds. Under doombull command ability buff: a single old bullgor caused an average 2.43 unsaved wounds; and a new bullgor causes an average 2.75 unsaved wounds.
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Nothing we have seen indicates that warherds have lost power. Instead of the garbage allegiance chaos abilities and potential to spike high amounts of damage with bloodgreed, the allegiance gains the herdstone, free healing, and multiple attacks per model which benefit from a toned down bloodgreed. Assuming you have no to hit bonus and have a doombull command ability up, old and new GW bullgors equally likely to trigger bloodgreed (each triggers 0.3333 bloodgreed attacks per round). Ignoring armour, old bullgors averaged 1.25 wounds per triggered bloodgreed (but only cause any extra damage 41% of the time), while new bullgors cause 1 wound (auto triggers). With 2 free added attacks on bullgors, pretty much regardless of the profile (did the video reveal the horn profile?), your expected damage will be higher with new bullgors. Outside the doombull command ability aura there's no contest that new minotaurs are better. --------- Magic is unreliable in the best of times. If its one of your top 2 spells, your opponent likely will try to dispel it if you succeed on the base roll, meaning <50% probability of casting. Worth having, but you don't want to be a slave to having your spells go off.
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The game is about objectives, not just killing (killing helps, of course). Ceding a turn is just asking for trouble. What might make sense is to aggressively push forward with chaff turn 1 to slow enemy lines as much as possible until the herdstone comes into play, without sacrificing objectives. The utility of the herdstone will depend on its deployment rules (ie, does it start 6" forward). If it deploys normally, it likely isn't worth the hoops to play to maximize it.
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I'll take it! I'm pretty sure Beasts lost both their 6th edition and 7th edition battle reports. I think it's comparable but removes extra dice rolling. Remember that they gain 2 attacks (different profile) that bloodgreed applies to, meaning 4-5 attacks that can trigger bloodgreed rather than 2-3. Most importantly: new bloodgreed is slightly more consistent damage; and new bloodgreed justifies taking bullgors without a doombull.
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As mentioned - shaggoth spell listed is from a lore that's likely only available to beast of chaos armies. Shaggoth also lack the keywords to get any tzeentch or nurgle spells (slaanesh is likely to be the same when released), so he'll be restricted to what's on his card.
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Thoughts on a few units: Bestigors: Seeing the charge attack, I can't help but think they must have lost their second profile attack. Ghorgon: Will this allow the ghorgon to choose the model removed, breaking unit coherency? If so, could be broken. Shaggoth: Amazing. Ultimate ally? Bullgor: Love the new bloodgreed and the addition of extra attacks. Centigors: With more attacks and the ability to add in bonus to hit, these are amazing allies for nurgle (who have a spell that causes a mortal wound on a 6+ to hit). Psyched that they're brayherd.
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The allegiance ability affecting Dragon Ogors is a pretty significant improvement already - D6" in the hero phase to close the distance for a MV8 unit makes for very fast unit that stands out from other hard hitter options (though by far the least hard hitting).
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If the shaggoth's spell is just the current storm rage thing, then thaumaturge is a much better overall package.
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Ogroid summons chaff with one of the most powerful magic missile spells in the game (D6 mortal wounds on a 7), and is a very solid melee beater to boot. Shaggoth has a better combat profile, but not by that much (thaumaturge has the mortal wounds for charging). Wounds are comparable (thaumaturge 2 less but heals 1 per turn).
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Assuming we take one of the marked contingents in a brayherd army and have all key allies available (ie, daemons and mortals of the same mark), what are the most exciting combinations? Great unclean one for nurgle beasts or bloodstoker for khorne beasts seems like the best one to me - along with a bray shaman making brayherd units +6" movement! Khorne bloodbound is obviously full of synergy abilities that may turn the beasts up to 11. I can't think of any tzeentch or slaanesh abilities that apply to non-mortal, non-daemon units aside from blue scribes (though a thaumaturge, tzaangor shaman and magister in a morghur army could make for a very annoying army with chaff popping up all over the place).
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Looking at other armies, I'm guessing it'll be something like sacrifice D6 models per turn to up the tally, so barring great rolling it'll be a turn 3 summon for anything decent (but that turn 3 summon is pretty reliable and pretty potent).
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Assuming the beastlord is near the bestigors, you'll often be able to position the beastlord to limit pile on into the bestigors.
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One thing not factored into this - herdstone will now, in some way, be an armour debuff. Depending on the range and reach, beastlords might become a very reliable damage dealer against heroes.
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In Lost and the Damned (one of the original Realms of Chaos books), Dragon Ogre champions have minotaur or beastmen followers (and are available as followers of either of the above-two warbands). It wasn't until 7th edition, when GW decided to shoehorn all the non-minotaur monstrous stuff in with warriors that there was any background about dragon ogres having issues leading or following beastmen.
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Why convert? You have a beastlord and beastlord share the same profile regardless of equipment.
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The very same. Just older, and with less hobby time. PS: If anyone paints their beasts of chaos and they aren't blue, they're doing it wrong.
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New grisly trophy is a better combat buff (+1 to hit is worse than rerolls to hit unless you have an ability triggering off 6's to hit), but worse movement buff, which I think is actually a buff overall (beastlord doesn't tend to be ahead of the army, which is already fast). The timing of the command ability is a huge bonus, as is the fact that you can center the command ability around another beastlord on the table as long as a beastlord triggered the ability (set up a better buff aura). Even factoring in the loss of great axe and shield, it's a huge buff. And while the beastlord certainly won't one-turn many heroes, let's not pretend 6 attacks, 3+ 3+ rend-1, reroll 1's to hit, reroll all failed wounds isn't a solid combat statline. Against heroes, it averages just over 4 wounds before saves, roughly 2.75 wounds against a 4+ save hero (identical mathematically to a chaos lord on daemonic steed with 4 3+ 3+ rend -1 2 damage attacks, ignoring the mount). By having more rolls and built in rerolls, the beastlord is actually more reliable at causing damage. edit: Sorry, screwed up. Beastlord against a hero does 4.148148 rend -1 wounds. Chaos lord on daemonic mount does 3.555556 rend -1 wounds and 1 non-rend wound (mount) on average. Very close between them when you factor in saves (within .15 unsaved wounds for each of 3+ 4+ and 5+ save targets), but chaos lord a hair ahead at each step. Beastlord costs just over half as much.
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@tupavko Number of attacks is an unfair way to measure a unit that does 3 damage per attack. Ignoring bloodgreed, the unit has the potential to do 20 damage (axe units) or 21 damage (great axe units). By being on low attack high damage models, the variance in high, which swings both ways but makes it more variable (ie, you don't know how much damage you're likely to cause). This is exacerbated by a 4+ to hit, and by bloodgreed which can swing things one way or the other. If you're saying bullgors don't hit hard enough and aren't resilient enough, it's probably better to just classify that as "they are too expensive even after their reduction", which may be fair. Right now, a big problem with bullgors is bestigors being almost as hitting, faster, more resilient, and very aggressively priced. IMO bullgors are a 20 pt drop or a 3+ to hit away from being a very good value unit, but in a mixed army (absent changes) you'll still find value from bullgors and a doombull as a hard hitter that doesn't have the footprint of bestigors.
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Blood bowl humans are larger scale than gors and bestigors (look how they fill out 32mm bases). Bloodbowl minotaur could work fine - less bulky than the gw minotaurs, but he'll stand out enough that it's no issue.
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Chimera and cockatrice have never been associated with beasts, so I think it is surprising for them to both be added (everything else is from old books, or tzaangors which are an obvious fit).
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Just model availability from the gw brayherd section. We havent seen any rules.
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Yeah, as expected: brayherd allegiance warherd allegiance thunderscorn allegiance tzaangor stuff, and a selection from monsters of chaos. From monsters of chaos: jabberslythe centigors gargant chimera cockatrice, and razorgor. So far no big surprises (aside from 3 flying monsters, including 2 finecast, making the cut), and no new or returned units that weren't included in the grand alliance. Also no beastlord with great weapon.
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Yeah, compendium morghur was much more tame (probably worse and less thematic than what I described). 6th edition morghur was the best, when he defined the entire army (your army had no general, but could make hordes of spawn from all nearby units, and he gave bestigors the skirmish+ rule beast herds had). Crazy and didn't fit 6th edition warhammer, but evocative. His 7th edition iteration was much more tame, as was his compendium iteration.
