decker_cky
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Everything posted by decker_cky
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The most satisfying tuskgor chariot conversion now is imo an orc boar chariot updated with boar rider boars converted to be more chaotic, crewed by a plastic bestigor and ungor.
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Dark walkers, aside from the magic item, feels very strong. The unit teleport seems like a really neat ability that some smart players will abuse to great effect.
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Depends - if you want the ungors to stand on their own, spears are really good (attack in 3 ranks since 25mm is under 1"). If you want the ungors to screen other units, and allow higher quality units to attack over the short ungor bases, I'd go with hand weapons. I don't think there's a huge difference between them in the long run.
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That gets into fiddling - I was more talking about the concept of 100 fast bodies for holding objectives combined with several fast hard hitting small hammer units that Beasts can bring to the table. Also, note that I since realized that bestigors are only battleline with a beastlord or GBS general, so that list would either have to switch the raiders to ungors (allows me to add another spawn) or swap general to one of the GBS (beastlords are meant to be suicide missiles).
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Welcome! Members of the desolating beastherd do 2 hits on an unmodified 6 to hit against enemy units in the enemy territory.
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To swing this back on topic, I think there's a really interesting army available with big cheap blocks (ungors, raiders, gors) supported by smaller, fast hard hitters (min. bestigors, min. disc enlightened, ghorgons, etc..). 3 min bestigors to cover battleline is only 360 pts, and they hit hard enough to break the back of a lot of units (particularly if softened by raiders ahead of time). The list is fast enough to get your blocks onto objectives before your opponent, has enough bodies to hold objectives, and hits hard enough to threaten key targets. edit - to make the conversation more tangible, something like this Gavespawn/Desolating Beastherd army: 10 Bestigors 120 10 Bestigors 120 10 Bestigors 120 30 Raiders 240 40 Ungors 200 30 Gors 210 Beastlord (mutating gnarlblade) 90 GBS 100 GBS 100 Ghorgon 220 Desolating beastherd 150 Shaggoth (general) 180 Beastlord (volcanic axe) 90 Chaos Spawn 50 1990
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That was paranoia on the part of those running the forums. GW never took any action in that regard.
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Enlightened on disc starting near a bray shaman are 19" + 2d6, and can jump over screens (with cogs they'll average 30"). First turn charges are not an issue for brayherd.
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No need to turn it into a single number - pretty easy to draw up charts and compare the ideal targets, etc.. I've calculated tzaangors vs bestigors, looking at the number of points to cause a wound. I've used 120 pts for 10 bestigors, and 180 pts for a unit of tzaangors (champ with GW, 3 other GW, 2 mutants, remainder AHW). Given the above, the under 9 values are obviously an abstract number (still calculate for the same 10 models). Tzaangors 3+ 4+ 5+ 6+ No shaman, under 9 56.02305 38.8024 29.67939 24.02967 Shaman, under 9 41.09937 28.44184 21.74497 17.60072 No shaman, 9+ 32.50836 22.65734 17.38819 14.1074 Shaman, 9+ 23.76528 16.54468 12.6893 10.29116 ---------- Bestigors 3+ 4+ 5+ 6+ Non-order, non-charge, <10 34.28571 25.71429 20.57143 17.14286 Order, non-charge, <10 29.38776 22.04082 17.63265 14.69388 Non-order, charge, <10 23.22581 17.41935 13.93548 11.6129 Order, charge, <10 19.90783 14.93088 11.9447 9.953917 Non-order, non-charge, +10 25.71429 19.28571 15.42857 12.85714 Order, non-charge, +10 22.04082 16.53061 13.22449 11.02041 Non-order, charge, +10 17.41935 13.06452 10.45161 8.709677 Order, charge, +10 14.93088 11.19816 8.958525 7.465438 Essentially - against 10+ model units or when charging, bestigors are more offensively efficient than tzaangors. If your opponent is able to reduce tzaangors below 9 models, they aren't in the same conversation. Defensively, bestigors are actually equally resilient against non-rend attacks, but are progressively less efficient the higher the quality attacks.
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No. It's not part of the battalion.
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What bonuses were you counting for tzaangors? I assume you were counting savagery unleashed and destined mayhem? Half of the issue with tzaangors and tzaangor shamans is that they're a tax on each other now that tzaangor shaman no longer can summon new units of tzaangors with his spell. That means a minimum 360 pt investment (only slightly less than 30 bestigors and a bray shaman), and you'll want to keep them wholly within 12" of each other basically all the time.
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So I know Rhu said marked battalions were something special allowing them to be taken in the marked armies, but so far in all the previews that go through the armies, nothing indicates that they're any different than the Everchosen warscroll battalions in terms of coming from ally points despite containing all units with marks. Has anyone seen reference to an actual rule that could justify them being taken in marked armies?
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Tzaangor enlightened on disc are really strong now - dropped 20 pts, gained brayherd and gained an attack. Also, they have three separate weapon profiles that benefit from +1 attack from the gavespawn command ability (+1 attack to melee weapons on a unit wholly within 12" of a spawn at the start of a combat phase). If you can set it up so that benefit from their reroll ability, they'll do a lot of work.
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Allherd command ability is a trap - one command point is ~50 pts of benefit. One summoning point is ~20 pts of benefit. If you want ambushed monsters, I think buying said monster in Darkwalkers makes a lot more sense. Where the command ability makes more sense is topping your summoning points off for a guaranteed turn 3 ghorgon or something. @Pangu Bestigors, ungors, raiders, enlightened on foot and chariots were the standouts for me in terms of summoning. I think you want to get things on the table early enough to get off the sidelines ASAP rather than save up for a late game monster.
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http://www.hobby-hammer.co.uk/2018/09/review-chaos-battletome-beasts-of-chaos.html Also, no graphics, but this video goes through all the content (including details of battalions I haven't seen elsewhere). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUUx4jEo0ig Standouts IMO are Khorne, slaanesh and Desolating beastherd Desolating beastherd 1 beastlord or doombull 1-3 GBS 1-3 Bestigors or bullgors 1-3 Gors or tuskgors 2-6 ungors or raiders 0-1 Ghorgon or Cygor 150 pts
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Looking at the chart, I think it will be a legitimate tactic to summon a chariot most every turn and suicide charge it into something. Reroll charge means decent chance of succeeding, and you should be able to position it so that even if you fail the charge your opponent needs to commit to it.
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That's actually pretty significant for some of the arcanite formations. Combined with the 20 pt skyfire drop (which comes with a drop in quality), tzaangor covens cost 80 pts less and witchfyre covens cost 60 pts less. Makes it a lot more reasonable to fit some of these in.
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I had done bullgor calculations before an missed reroll 1's for AHW. This shifts the math significantly. My calculations are below: AHW 3+ 4+ 5+ 6+ Base attacks 1 1.333333 1.666667 2 Reroll 1's 0.166666667 0.222222 0.277778 0.333333 Horns 0.166666667 0.25 0.333333 0.416667 Bloodgreed 0.416666667 0.416667 0.416667 0.416667 Reroll 1's 0.041666667 0.041667 0.041667 0.041667 1.791666667 2.263889 2.736111 3.208333 3 bullgors 5.375 6.791667 8.208333 9.625 champ bonus attack 0.388888889 0.518519 0.648148 0.777778 Total 5.763888889 7.310185 8.856481 10.40278 GW 3+ 4+ 5+ 6+ Base attacks 1.333333 1.666667 2 2 Horns 0.166667 0.25 0.333333 0.416667 Bloodgreed 0.333333 0.333333 0.333333 0.333333 1.833333 2.25 2.666667 2.75 3 bullgors 5.5 6.75 8 8.25 champ bonus attack 0.444444 0.555556 0.666667 0.666667 Total 5.944444 7.305556 8.666667 8.916667 Shield 3+ 4+ 5+ 6+ Base attacks 1 1.333333 1.666667 2 Horns 0.166667 0.25 0.333333 0.416667 Bloodgreed 0.416667 0.416667 0.416667 0.416667 1.583333 2 2.416667 2.833333 3 bullgors 4.75 6 7.25 8.5 champ bonus attack 0.333333 0.444444 0.555556 0.666667 Total 5.083333 6.444444 7.805556 9.166667 In short, shield is obviously the worst option for offensive output. GW vs AHW has GW better vs 3+ save, a draw vs 4+ save, and AHW is marginally better vs 5+ save and much better vs any save it can negate. When rerolls are factored in, more rend is better. In short, GW seems to have done a great job balancing the offensive output between AHW and GW bullgors.
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Gavespawn command ability would give a 4th attack to bestigors, while brayblast trumpet boosts to 2+ to hit.
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Ungors are still super useful because they're cheap and their bases are under 1", meaning you can use them to screen and allow a counter-pile from safety against most targets (2+" melee is relatively rare). Useful for screening, holding objectives, and sacrificing. Gors are still a cheap battleline at 80 pts, but definitely have a bit of an identity crisis. I think if you need gors as your 3rd battleline, it will be worth taking 30 for 210 as a cheap flexible unit. It'll be interesting to see the battlions - remember that the khorne battalion doesn't allow ungors. Maybe ungors are excluded from battalions making gors a de facto choice in a lot of cases. I'm psyched for Gavespawn, but then again....I may have 20+ spawn models. Gavespawn gives a strong trait, a strong command ability and a strong magic item. Anyone know if Morghur will balance on a 32mm base? Because beastlord with the gavespawn weapon will be killer! If bestigors really are still 120/300, then they're one of the best value units in the game. Would like to see details of the battalion compositions/rules, as they're a bit sparse and will really dictate the synergies we can't see yet.
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I think I saw that skyfires reduced to 200 pts somewhere? Also Enlightened gained a cheaper on foot points cost.
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For those keeping score, Brayherd is relevant for abilities on Great Bray Shamans and Beastlords: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-great-bray-shaman-en.pdf https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-beastlord-en.pdf Tzaangor stuff near a GBS is going to be FAST.
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Gor, hound and bullgor warscrolls don't seem to be updated yet.
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Tzaangor shaman spell now only adds to units - can't summon a new unit. Centigor no longer rerolls charge, adds 1 to run and pile in as per other brayherd units. Lots of buffs are now wholly within rather than within. Think everything that triggered on a 6+ now triggers on a 6.
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Unless there's a specific allowance, they are not daemon, mortal, bloodbound, arcanite, or rotbringers, so they wouldn't have access to any of the magic items or spells contained in any of the mark specific battletomes.
