PJetski

Evocators +40 Longstrikes -30 Geminids +20 Seems like my list is 30 points more expensive. I can drop the Quicksilver Swords and swap the Veritant for a Relictor and it stays intact.

Power is relative... There's not much to talk about until they release the pdf with changes to the 2019 battletomes 🙄 It's annoying that I have two tournaments scheduled between GHB release and point pdf release.

I really doubt they reduced the cost of Longstrikes.

An official online living document with all the points is a great idea.

Can you use the regular LOTL or do you have to use the Vostarg version if you play Vostarg?

Slaanesh is basically just FEC but with backloaded summoning and better anti magic.

Has anyone tried a Hermdar list with LOTL and Forge Brethren? I want the most unkillable block of Hearthguard you can possibly get, and it seems like you can make it work if you cut some corners like taking a Runefather on foot rather than Magmadroth. 100 Runefather (tyrant slayer) 120 Runemaster (general to make Auric battleline) 140 Battlesmith (nullsidian icon) 480 20x Berzerkers 140 LOTL 980 120 Auric 120 Auric 120 Auric 120 Runesmiter 160 Forge Brethren 640 260 M-Runesmiter (Smoldering Helm, reduce rend trait) 1880/2000 The last 120 points can be spent on adding 10 more Berzerkers or Fyrewall + Flamespitter. What do you think?

Evocators will probably go up to 220 or 240 but honestly they don't deserve any nerfs. They're properly costed when compared to the stuff in the last 4 battletomes. They should stay at 200 and Paladins should go down to 160.

Maybe we could have a thread dedicated to the new format and keep posting rumours in this one

I think that has more to do with some of the Verminlords being undercosted (most notably the Warpseer)

Game 4 - Skaven - Places of Arcane Power in Ulgu This was an opponent I had practiced with before the event. His list was 9x Jezzails + Bombadier, 2x Hellpit Abominations, Warpseer, Corruptor, and 40/40/20 clan rats. Normally the 9x Jezzail unit presents a problem since it has a longer threat range than Longstrikes, but unfortunately for him the game was in Ulgu with 12" max range realmscape. He deployed the Corruptor on one side, hellpit and 40 rats on the other, and everything else in the middle. I was expecting him to go second since he deployed his Jezzails slightly back, so I put my Azyros on the side without any of his heroes, Evocators in the middle, and my Incantors out of his unbinding range (he doesnt have Vortex in his list)... but then he decided to go first. He pushed his hellpit on the middle objective and followed it with the Warpseer behind to claim it, then ran6 with clan rats to make a screen but because of the scenery he wasn't able to get up far enough. He had nothing in range for his Jezzails so he ran them forward. On my turn I teleported my Longstrikes up >9" from his clan rats and was able to get 7 in range to shoot the Warpseer. Azyros took the left objective with a screen of Aetherwings ready to stop the hellpit next turn, the Evocators charged into the middle and took down the hellpit. Between Longstrikes and Evocator lightning I was able to take down the Warpseer. I charged the second unit of Aetherwings into the Jezzails flank so they wouldnt be able to shoot the Evocators. Score was tied 2-2. I won the roll for turn and the writing was on the wall - I took almost everything off the table, leaving him with only his Corruptor (holding an objective) and Bombadier. He conceded after my turn was over saying he couldn't even try to score secondary objectives. Game 5 - Gloomspite Gitz - Blood & Glory in Ghyran Another player I have a long history playing against, but with a very different list from what she usually brings. It was 2x60 Stabbaz, 1x10 Fanatics, Gobbopalooza, only 2 heroes (Madcap + Fungoid), Loonsplatta Fanatics, and Snufflers. I didn't know what the goal of this list was going to be but I guessed that it probably involved Hand of Gork'ing a fully buffed unit of Stabbaz and unleashing some Fanatics to deal some huge damage. She deployed all her support units behind the Loonshrine, flanked by 1x60 Stabbaz on each side. I put Liberators and Aetherwings on one side to deny Hand of Gork, Gryph Hound in the middle with Longstrikes (fanatics would not survive deploying in range of the gryph hound) and my last deployment was a Heraldor in reserve. Suddenly recalling what the Heraldor does, her face sunk and she immediately regretted deploying her entire army in range of the Loonshrine. I was told to go first. Knowing the mission, there was no incentive for me to be aggressive so I kept my deployment, cast some Geminids up ahead and took some shots across to start thinning goblins. I dropped the heraldor into play in range of the shrine and put some Aetherwings in front of him - this forced my opponent to come forward, but risked very little even in the event of a double turn. Heraldor blast killed one of the Gobbopalooza and severely wounded the other support heroes and I ended my turn. My opponent moved her support units away from the shrine and the stabbaz up the middle of the board. In the charge phase she decided not to deploy fanatics and I moved my Aetherwings away from the stabbaz, putting my heraldor >12" away and not even giving her the chance to declare a charge. With this one simple move I was able to shut down an entire turn for my opponent! She won the roll for turn and after I gave both Stabbaz units -1 hit she buffed up her units (including spending two command points to use the Loonboss command ability on both Stabbaz units) and moved her Stabbaz and Squigs up for a charge against the Heraldor. She decided not to deploy the Fanatics (wise decision, they would just get tied down with Aetherwings shot down in my turn). The stabbaz were both tied down by one unit of Aetherwings, but the Squigs managed a 12" charge and did 3 wounds to the Heraldor. On my second turn I shot down the Fungoid general and prepared for a big charge against the Stabbaz. I moved the gryph hound and longstrikes up to cover one unit of Stabbaz (if she deployed Fanatics they would get shot) and a unit of Aetherwings up on the other unit (so the Fanatics could not be deployed) and the Evocators were able to charge without getting caught into a combat with Fanatics. I was able to pile in 2 Evocators in range of the Evocators and used the lightning blast to finish them off. At this point we realized that she had been using the Loonboss command ability incorrectly - it did not activate in the hero phase, but in the combat phase, and it only lasted for that phase. Her entire strategy revolved around accepting a charge and counterattacking with buffed up Stabbaz. She decided to concede rather than playing it out, though I am confident that the result would have been the same. Thanks for reading, sorry there weren't any photos

Just my 2 cents on the topic Thricefold is a very strong list, and last year it definitely seemed like GUOs were undercosted compared to many other big monsters. I recall a lot of comparisons between GUO and Bloodthirsters, and calls for GUO to be raised to 400+ points. There has been significant power creep since then - after the 2019 books and the errata on spellportal it seems like Thricefold is strong but in-line with other powerful lists.

Just for the sake of clarity 1. It is originally from 4chan, not Reddit 2. It's not a "wishlist" it is (supposedly) tournament player feedback submitted to GW

Azyros has the artefact to allow him to capture objectives on some missions One of the Incantors is the general Veritant has Translocation Evocators take Speed of Lightning Incantor spells are mostly irrelevant since they are usually casting the Endless Spells but I take Stormcaller on one and Celestial Blades on the other (so I can boost Evocator damage even if they cast Speed of Lightning) All Liberators have hammer & shield, all evocators have Grandstaves

Sorry I made a typo, it should be 4+ not 6+ like I said earlier. Regardless, that's not a huge amount of damage. It will usually only hit your Frontline Liberators if you wait to deploy key units until the end after his wizards are down.

The Vortex has a very large threat range, and sometimes the Skaven player will deploy their wizards out of possible unbind range and then decide to go first so you don't have a chance to move in range. This is an unfortunate scenario, but it is a very risky for the Skaven player for a few reasons: 1. It casts on an 8 and assuming he is on his gnawhole he is gambling on 7+, which is basically a coin flip. Failing that cast means he has to wait until at least turn 4 to get the Vortex on the table (you will be able to unbind it on rounds 2 and 3) and by that point the game is already over. 2. It puts that wizard very far away - they won't be doing anything except the vortex for the rest of the game. 3. It is unlikely that it even does anything. More on that below. You can choose to deploy a little bit further back from the frontline, knowing that he will want to stay near his gnawhole for the +1 cast. This is one of the advantages to running more drops - you will generally know where your opponent is placing his wizards so you can react accordingly. If you deploy your models correctly you can deny him space setting up the 2nd vortex model (the second one has to be exactly 7" away from the first) and force him to place it close in the middle of the board. If you do it properly you should only have a handful of units within range of only one of the vortex models, which means you take D3 mortal wounds on a 6+ and can't run or fly... both very minimal effects against Stormcast. The vortex is only a problem if he can trap a big part of your army and if he's far enough that it can't be unbound then the vortex will do very minimal damage, so it's not a big deal if you can't unbind it on turn 1. Furthermore, once it is cast then you can just walk away from it after taking minimal damage - there's no reason to dispel it unless you need to be in that space, let your opponent try to dispel it on a 9+ instead

Not every rule is designed for 2000pt matched play

I played each game slow and careful, never overextending - I always let my opponent make the first move and then counterattack. The list works because it functions off denying my opponent options. Aetherwings stop melee, 2x dispel scroll stops spells, and good deployment + teleport gives me the upper hand against shooting. I purposefully keep my list with lots of drops so I can deploy my wizards, Longstrikes, and Evocators very late so I have all the information I need to have an optimal deployment. I'll do a short writeup of each game. Game 1 - Focal Points vs Slaanesh This was definitely my hardest match of the day. I have a long history with this opponent so I knew not to underestimate him AND it was with that damned Aqshy realmscape. I deployed my wizards out of range of unbinding and my Longstrikes in range to shoot some daemonettes in the first hero phase if he made me go first. That's exactly what happened - turn 1 I shot 30 Daemonettes off the table and maintained my defensive position, only moving aetherwings to the middle to score. He cast a Pendulum that would eventually reach my Longstrikes then moved up carefully keeping his heroes in terrain so they couldnt be shot (realmscape blocks all LOS), captured the middle (I moved my Aetherwings back to prepare for a double turn) and tried to get a double turn. Score was 4-4. Unfortunately for him I won the roll so I moved my units back, killed the other 30 daemonettes with Evocators, and teleported 5 liberators onto an objective he left a little too exposed. I moved my Longstrikes a little bit too far backwards and wasn't able to stop his Keeper from charging with my Aetherwings, so he killed some Liberators and 2/3 Aetherwings. I positioned well enough to keep him off my objective even if the unit died, though. Score was now 10-8. I won the roll for turn 3, shot his keeper down and left him with only 4 heroes on the board, capturing 4 of 5 objectives. He summoned 30 daemonettes and tried to make a 9" charge into my backline but didn't get the roll. He summoned 20 daemonettes on the other side and charged them into my Incantor, but he wasn't able to get the objective because of the spirit flasks and aetherwings splitting his attacks. Bottom of 3 the Score was 16-9, and it was now impossible for him to win. I lost two units of Liberators, 1 unit of Aetherwings, and a Knight-Incantor. Game 2 - 160 Plague Monks on Total Commitment He deployed 1 Plague Furnace on each side, 40 on one side, Warpseer + 40 + Corruptor in the middle, and 80 on the other side (near a gnawhole). Gnawholes were near both of my objectives. I deployed in the middle but leaned towards the side he went heavy on, with only Liberators and Aetherwings defending one objective. He went first, failed to cast the cogs, I used a dispel scroll on the Vortex, moved the Corruptor towards the weak flank, teleported 40 monks through the gnawhole and failed the charge. Knowing that I couldn't do any meaningful damage until all his battleshock immunity was gone I prioritized killing the Warpseer. I didn't realize he had the 5+ shrug command trait and my first volley only did 4 wounds. I wasn't confident in the next volley so I moved my Evocators up to get the killing blow if necessary. Unfortunately for me the Longstrikes swung very high and he failed almost every roll, so the Warpseer died and my Evocators were left exposed. I tried to charge the Plague Monks but failed. They were definitely dead if I lost the turn roll. He won the turn 2 roll, failed the Vortex, charged my Evocators with two units of monks, but a long Aetherwing move (10") was able to block a flank and stop them from being wiped out entirely. I was able to keep 4 Evocators alive, denied the other unit from being able to reach me, and wiped the first unit of Plague Monks because they had no battleshock immunity. He failed to charge up a 7" wall with his Corruptor on the other side. He wasn't able to get enough bodies on my objective so the score was still tied. On my turn I started focusing fire on the second unit of Plague Monks to clear them off and teleported some liberators onto the objective they were holding. I killed the furnace with Evocators and pulled ahead in score. He won round 3 roll but couldn't really do much of anything. His corruptor failed to kill my Liberators (in cover with the -1 hit realmscape) and his last unit of plague monks was tied down by Aetherwings. The game was over. I only lost 1 unit of Aetherwings, 3 Liberators, and 6 Evocators. Game 3 - Gristlegore - Gift from the Heavens in Shyish Not much to say about this one, probably my easiest game of the day. I have a lot of practice against Gristlegore + Ghoul Patrol so I knew exactly how to handle it. He finished deploying first and chose to go first. I deployed >2" back so he couldn't charge me on turn 1 without using his run&charge spell, which I denied with my dispel scroll. I also used a scroll on Unholy Vitality, and was able to get a regular unbind against the cogs. He ran his two terrorgheists up the middle of the board, used all his summons immediately to put a Vhargulf and flayers on one of my flanks (guarded by Evocators with Liberators in front) and deployed his ghoul patrol on the other flank (guarded by Aetherwings and Liberators). He failed his charges on the former and I tied down the latter with Aetherwings. On my turn I shot the general off the table and took the other one down to 2 wounds remaining. I killed all of his flayers and vharghulf with one round of attacks from the Evacators, and moved Liberators up to block ghouls. I won the round 2 roll. Going first I teleported Libs onto his objective and killed everything except 2x10 Ghouls and the regent, so he conceded. I only lost my Aetherwings in this game. I'll write up game 4 and 5 later today.

Confirmed today that the rules for the Fyreslayer and Flesheater mercenary companies are being reprinted in Generals Handbook. One less reason to get Forbidden Power...

Updating the allegiance is pointless. Seraphon need new warscrolls more than anything else.

Just finished a 16 team GT. I went 5-0 with Anvilstrike and won "MVP", and our team came in 2nd overall (we had a person go 0-5 and another go 1-4 😂). The event was designed to handicap shooting with rounds in Aqshy (all scenery blocks LOS) and Ulgu (12" max range) but it wasn't enough to hinder this list. I didn't get any photos but my rounds were the following: 1. Slaanesh - Godseekers - 60x Daemonettes, Keeper, 3x Enrapturess - in Aqshy 2. Skaven - 160 Plague Monks (yes, really) 2x Verminlord, 2x Plague Furnace, Vortex 3. FEC - Gristlegore - 2x AGKTG, Regent, Ghoul Patrol, Cogs & Chalice 4. Skaven - 9x Jezzails, clan rats, 2x Verminlord, 2x Hellpit - in Ulgu 5. Gitz - 2x60 Stabbas, buffs, teleports

Kill all the heroes while tying down the Berzerkers with aetherwings on a flank, then the Berzerkers can die easily. The Fyreslayer list you actually need to look out for is shooting focused Lofnir

It is foolish to focus on killing the azyros, he is definitely the least important unit in my list. Any damage directed at him is damage that could have gone into the Veritant, Longstrikes, Aetherwings, or Evocators.

I talked about this in detail already

If I didn't have Longstrikes I would run the same list but with 20 Judicators instead. If I didn't have them I would play one of the other Stormcast lists I mentioned earlier in the thread: AT 10x Evocators + 4x Ballista CV 6x Dracolines + 4x Ballista AT 6x Fulminators With the right point drops I would play all kinds of lists... Grand Convocation + Stardrake, Hammerstrike Force + Lauchon + Cycle of the Storm, bravery bomb, Drakesworn + 8 Desolators. Stormcast are just a little too expensive right now and you have to cherrypick the most efficient units (Evocators, Ballista, double tap Longstrikes).