broche

I've a medium local event in 2 weeks, and i'm looking to bring a list like this: At first I was looking to play ironjawz, but with the rise off the bonereaper and potentially cities, I really wanted to use the Wurgog (and have access to some casting bonus). Smash and bash is ok, but i'm not sure it have that big of an impact exept in some situation (like agains slaneesh, but Gorkamorka warcry can do a similar job). However brutish cunning and Ironfist make sure i've 2 reliable source of Mighty destroyer. The goal is really to take it slow in turn 1, then start commiting units in turn 2 with 6++ and (hopefully) +1/+1 in effect. It's a first draft, my units choice may change as i've lot's of choice from IJ and BS.

I think 1250 pts is low for the bataillion, i would rather have the extra shaman. But at the end of the day, there is not a huge difference. Ironfist is one of the easiest bataillion to evaluate: for 110, you get a potential free MD for 5 turn (max value of 250 pts). But something between 100-150 is more realist (as the boss bataillion can die and/or be to far to use it effectively). But I think teleport (and added chance of dispel) have more value than that because you gain something you don't have access to.

@Rune cool army, but i find it a bit low on body count. Try to fit 1-2 extra units of Guard/Shooter it will help you holding your own objective and create board coverage. I think you can easily drop the Comet for an extra such unit.

Looking to build some hammerhall army for casual game (Will likely use Hallowheart for competitive). A model i'll likely use that nobody seem to be talking is the Celestial Prime. It really fit well with the Command to attack twice. Deep striking him on turn 2 and he is a threath to any ennemy piece. It's a bit sad that a lot of the freeguild units are overpriceds (expecially Griffin vs Frost Phoenix and Greatsword vs Phoenix guard).

Yeah honestly that is the saddest part of new battletome. The only mixed bataillions are the Ironfist and weirdfist which is total ******...

Like you're list @Malakree (I would go more 15-15-10-5-5 tough) Problem is adding 35 brutes to my collection haha

Not nerfed, but pretty flat. Ardboys does a similar job for a lower per model cost. However I expect to see some list including Brutes as the meta diversify (since their damage output is higher than Ardboys). They are better with da Choppa because of bravery buff, but most competitive list are Ironsunz at the moment.

This could be a decent list against Bonereaper. Not sure how good it is against rest of the field (read: anything with decent shooting)

Thanks to point that! So I doubt we will see list with more than either Arkhan, Nagash or Kakatros. So you can expect 6 raised model per turn. not cool! So just did some quick math, to have decent odd of killing a squad of 40, you need a combinasion of 20 mortal (fist of gork + other spell), a volley of 30 arrowboys + a charge of well buffed Big stabbas / Pig / Ardboys. A Maw Krusha with Live to fight + metal rippa claw will kill about 20 as well.

You can get another +1 from making Wurgog general. Could get 1 more from Idol. at +4 is pretty consistant. I mean, they're gonna take 17 mortal wound if you succed, and they don't have much shooting. Add more source of mortal wound, and you can realisticly clear more than half the regiment per turn, wich is better than most army.

Yeah, doesn't matter. Still mess up opponent charge phase, open deep striking option, can add unexpected 5 model to a constested objective. They do 12 rend 2 damage and always strike first. The only game they did nothing was when 9 stormfiend oblitarate the 40 goblin in shooting in T1

Yes reroll in combat. Kakatros can bring 3 model back per turn, but i didn't see anything else. They also get a nice discount for max size (40). An overall really good unit. Rend 1 in combat is not gonna be enough, you'll need rend 2+ or mortal. I think an heavy magic Big waagh will fare better than pure IJ. Well, anything holding 2 objectives that won't die with 80 damage is pretty bad. At the end of the day, you might kill 15 of the screen of phoenix guard, but you won't take back the objective then a squad of Irondrake will fume you with 50+ rend 2 damage. For me end result it's the same.

Pha's protection, cinder cloud, geminid are all very likely. +1 save from tempest eye in round 1. Sigmar have so much unit i did not even check all the possibility. At the end of the day, if you commit 6 pig and 4 command point and don't even kill 200 points on the charge, things are looking bad. Also if a single squad of berskerker have 2+, that mean his hero are close enough. At this point you're better avoiding them and kill stuff that buff so they become killable next turn. For me this is the most problematic thing. And one more reason to avoid them like pest until some of their hero are dead.

How can Heartguard get to 2+? I tough 3+ was their max best. Last time I played against Fyreslayer they were mostly at 4+/4+ with buff from battlesmith. You're kind of comparing orange and apple. You,re giving +3 save to Berserker and a mere -1 to wound to the Phoenix guard. Guard could easily give you an extra -1 (even 2) to hit, a +1 save, rr1 save as well and a 6++ from Luminark. Also Mortek guard can only reach 3+ at best as far as i'm aware.

Yeah with klaw. Good point about MD, attacking in herophase indeed mitigate the reroll. Wurgog with huge casting bonus with fist of gork will kill almost half the squad too

I think if they become prevalent, the Metalrippa claw might become mandatory. A maw krusha would then be able to kill most of a 40 - strong mob. Otherwise, you divide damage by more than 4... not good Also note that the reroll all save , not just failed one... meh just redid the math and MK would like 15 on a charge... they have the stupid feel no pain 6+ as well. realy bad.

I think it was simplier to leverage new Ironjawz ability in the short term. Big waagh army are more contrôle army, and there is much more option. I think they will grow in popularity, and end up having more success than pure ironjawz in the long term.

+1 damage (around twice more absolute damage)

@a74xhx I've a really similar collection. I recently won a local league with Gloomspite playing variation of those list: for spell I was always taking Hand of mork/gork, and alterning between great green tide, itchy nuisance or call da moon for the 2 others. I think the beauty of gloomspite is really the vast choice available. However I think all list should include a minium of 40 stabbas/shootas, and the geminid.

Fair enough I think you're a bit optimistic. the best damage 6 gruntas can get is around 80 (assuming warchanter, spear on the charge, hit bonus, and a +2 attack waaagh). That would kill an average of 15 orruk. They'll spend a CP for inspiring presence, and counter attack you. I would not be that confident to win that war. Of course, they might just have a 4+ as spell/prayer are not granted, at 4+/6++ you have reasonable odd of killing them in your next attack (depending if you win priority). However BS will often support big blob with nearby big stabbas, wich is really annoying for melee army. Again, that a really optimistic scenario. Add in debuff from Frostheart and pha's protection and you're down to 12 kills. You loose 2 pig in reitaliation, and are already behind in the grinding war. And wait to see Bonereaper, it's gonna get worse (stupide GW with their army wide +1 save). And this is purely open field, if you need to navigate terrain with Gruntas it can quickly get worse. Of course, Berserker are still the worst because they strike first (and hard), wich is really bad, but anything that divide damage roughly by four is not great for Ironjawz. I would tend to avoid those unit until I could kill some character. Of course if they hold the only objective on the board, there's not much to do...

Actually the most resilent units per point is 30 savage orruk with +2 save at a whooping 0.72 pts per effective wound. Anyway I get that berserker are probably the worst because of the strike first and the fact that the hit relative hard, you won't grind thru 30 phoenix guard that fast either. They have access to -1 to wound as well, and stuff like 6++, minus to hit, and they also can hit quite hard. They can bring back d6 model per turn with Lifeswarm. Goblin could combine geminid with net, and they are pretty cheap. + they can stall with fanatics. It's not just about killing the bloob is also about how much they score before. You need to kill it and then be able to score both turn 4 and 5

I think it's not easy, but certainly not hopeless. The situation @Malakree describe is really specific to a scenario. You could basically replace berserker by "anything resistant enough" here. 60 night goblin, 30 pheonix guard, 30 savage orruck with 3+ save ect. Berskerker are a bit more scary because they also hit like a train. Ironjawz advantage over Fyreslayer is not really combat, it's more mobility and board coverage, so you need to start the game with that mind set. Kill what can be killed to hinder is model count and board coverage and use your superior mobility to control more objective. Obviously it work better in some battleplan than other. Starstrike is really a strange scenario. I'm a bit with @PlasticCraic advice on that that skewing the objective toward the middle board wasn't necesseraly a great change.

fanatics?

@PlasticCraic It seem to be a game from Justice GT (Ironjawz took 3rd place and loose to Slaanesh). Weird! Had my first club game against skaven today. He told me he would bring a softer list, so i tought I would try something softer as well: So pretty standart, went for weakest clan. We were playing total commitment. He had to screen his back row against deepstriking opportunity, so I took first turn and charged with the 9 pigs and Maw krusha, killed 3 Stormfiend and a bunch of clan rat. His turn he counterattack with fully buffed 40 stormvermin, Verminlord and Clawlord, killing 3 pig's squad, but I managed to save 3 pig from the 6 squad thanks to reroll save triumph. Killed the Clawlord before he attack. Maw krusha ate another squad of clanrats (he should have retreated them but he tough they would hold a turn). I won priority and teleported my 5 useless brutes and stealed one of his objective, MK killed more stuff and threatened his second objective. Stormvermin continu to shred gruntas and ardboys, but at this point he didn't had enough board coverage to come back so that was it. So obviously Warchanter are dope. The fact that it last make the army much more resilient to double turning than before (specially against melee army). As expected Bloodtooth is not great (beside the fact that most of my model are painted Red to fit the theme). +1 charge is never bad. +1 run is mostly irrelevant. There was a realmgate on the table but I never waaagh so trait did nothing. Did not had a chance to use command ability either, but i still like it. Unlike Ironsunz wich is more straightfoward, I think this one is the kind of ability that you'll mostly never use, but could pull you out of a difficult game. Quickduff is obviously super good, but taking a Megaboss for it suck a bit. At the end you might as well just put it on the MK. Speaking of the MK, i'm pretty sure Fast'un would be my default mount trait. 1. If something can be kill, warchanter damage boost should be enough to kill it. 2. If something can't be kill, mean'un will end up do nothing, i'd rather have the +2 move to help me find something more juicy to attack.

@PlasticCraic video you shared doesn't seem to be Bloodshed (guy seem to play Big waaagh, i see a wurgog, no Megaboss, no pig)