DantePQ

@whispersofblood yep it's HaggNarr

Ok so I finished 3rd in little tournament,won two games against SCE Sequitors list and Legion of Azeroth (maxed out scores) and Lost nailbitter against SCE Sequitors and Evocators list when I almost recovered from horrible,horrible deployment mistake. It was also first test for my new build I am planning to bring to GT Heat 1 in March Morathi Slaughter Queen with Iron Circlet 2x Hag Queen Bloodwrack Medusa 30 Witches with pairs of knives 30 Witches with bucklers 10 Witches 2x5 Lifetakers Cauldron Guard

We already got two Aelves factions in 2018 is their state really that bad, maybe they will include some newer kits in Malerion's and Teclis/Tyrion's Aelves but I doubt we will see any other Aelf factions - 4 is already a lot, also their possibility that they could bring Araloth somewhere in the future.

FEC really need something, new hero is confirmed son maybe hero+2 double kits + endless spell seems like amazing idea to refresh FEC really quickly

Interesting choice of armies as there is no Daughters of Khaine,Nagash or Deepkins.

It's more about logistics as Deepkin are pain to transport especially by plane and DoK were good to transport as I ve already taken them to Throne of Skulls Europe. Also I've been playing with DoK since they had been released year ago so I got a lot of experience with them(I played like 200+ games with them) and I am probably taking my beloved Snakes Army. Also I need to get Namarti painted. I don't think Deepkin are far behind DoK in terms of competitive play but they are surely harder to master. If I figure out how to transport them(usually I transport them in magnetized boxes but those won't fit into baggage) I may very well take Fuethan list.

I know that James Tinsdale has amazing results and more consistent then any other Deepkin player but I only brought up Les to show that you can have good results without Thralls. And it's good that there are different lists And good luck with your lists at Heat 1. maybe we will meet at battlefield as I am taking my Daughters of Khaine to Heat 1

@wanderingrogueI am not disputing that Thralls are good and crucial to Fuethan list as I know they are but calling 6th place at Balckout a good but not very good results is just wrong especially considering that other Deepkin lists results in biggest tournaments (no Top3 finishes) . By that logic not a single ID list is getting very good results in big tournaments. It's up to each player preference if I could I would take 3x3 Ishlaen Guard in Fuethan Reverse Tide list but it's impossible so Thralls and Reavers are good and are crucial. It's my opinion that there isn't enough mechanics to support Thralls heavy oriented lists to be consistent in competitive play. Sure I could be proven wrong and I'd be happy to be wrong about this.

And ? I just wrote that a) there has been very succesful list WITHOUT Thralls Les was 6th at Blackout (best ID) b) almost any succsful list run more than 30 Namarti in total (3x10) just to fill battleline slots, sure they are crucial in those lists but are taken becasue of Tidecaster anybody would swap Thralls for Ishalean(as they woud work better at Thralls job in those lists) if they didn't have to take them. Also I was answering a question why I don't use Ishlean guards and my thoughts and reasoning about it as I had great results both with DoK(for examle winning Thone of Skulls Europe) and ID in competitive play .

You're just not accurate first you claimed that all best tournament lists use 30 Thralls which isn't true 1) many of them use 20 Thralls and 10 Reavers mostly because of how powerful reverse Tide ability of Tidecaster is especially in Fuethan. If it wasn't for that everyone would be using 3x3 Ishalean or other unit to sit on objective or to capture one. 2) Les Martin list that he got great results with is without Thralls its Volturnos, Aspect, Tidecaster, Soulscryers and 3x6 Morssar if I am correct, maybe he played with Thralls but his best results with Deepkin (and one of the best results by Deepkins in tournaments) are with Thrall less lists

Not really Les Martin had great results with Volturnos list so your point is just false. And my Thralls lists I mean Thralls focused lists not some Thralls that fill up Battleline in Fuethan lists as they are very hand and crucial but those lists are Morssar heavy alpha strikes.

Yep Fuethan has Thralls and Reavers Ishlaen Guard do not suit Deepkin playstyle at this moment. Ishlaen are really bad against mortal wounds and sitting on objectives is a waste of points. They would be great support unit for any other Deepkin playstyle but right now Thralls lists are bad because there is almost nothing in the Battletome to support such playstyle. It's all about Morssar right now.

As a competitive player myself, there is little sense not to go for max out Witches/Sisters of Slaughter. I nw Ben Saava list and it's rock solid I've played with similar list but with more Hag Queens , I've used 20 Witches units few times - when I was playtesting Draichi Ganeth lists and only because of I couldn't fit 30 of them.

It's a great spell don't get me wrong and it could be handy it doesn't have great synergy with how Deepkins play right now. Sure if you are able to cast on a unit you really want to debuff its great. But it doesnt synergize much with ultra aggressive playstyle. I came up with an army build a pound Ishalean and Tidecasters but it's quite static and all aboyt objective bunkering.

It depends, debuff isn't that handy as usually you wipe out enemy you wanna wipe out, but it's great against DoK for example, mystic shield is easy choice, but it's just extra and you are very frequently out of range

Yep, if you don't have bonuses to cast or extra range magic is quite unreliable especially with casters with only 1 casting attempt. Even Aspect of the Storm isn't good enough with 2 spells and no bonuses to cast/unbind

I found Tidecasters really underwhelming in eel lists, sure they can cast Steed of Tides on Aspect and that's basically it as they can't keep up with eels I also tried Aspect of the Sea but it's another model that doesn't really synergize with Eels Aspect of the Storm is much better. Deepkins aren't good at magic as they don't have access to really good spells the only useful spells are Steed of Tides and - 1 to hit.

@HollowHills yep second lits has 2x10 Thralls and 10 Reavers in it. Reavers are kind of great in Fuethan list if you use them to sit around objectives/screen also their MV 8'' with re-rolls of runs help a lot later on to take objective etc. Deepkins didn't win any big tournaments but there were numerous lists in Top10s - mainly because they are unforgiving to play - you can get away with some mistakes with Nagash or DoK but with Deepkins it's harder as you got to be clinical and it's hard to do over 5 games. Also it's uphill battle against HaggNarr DoK as 30 Witches with bucklers can easily survive charge of 9 Morssar but it's winnable (especially with Doppleganger nerf) also that's where Cloud of Midnight is quite handy. I don't think Deepkins are far away behind Nagash and DoK, sure those two are Top Tier armies right now but Deepkins are not that far away, also it's possible that new Battletomes will shake things up as they could be good against for example Nagash/DoK but not that great against Deepkins. I still think that main issue is how unforgiving Deepkins are to play at the highest competitive level - happened to be a lot - one mistake/bad movemet/charge target and you're almost done. Thralls are what they are - they work great as 10 man units and I've played with huge blobs but it's not base size or wholly within restrictions it's more like Deepkins Battletome doesn't support them as big units- all those buffs you can apply to them are just "meh" if they had access to some kind of defense buff (+1 to save, even 6++) or some really good ofensive buffs like +1 to attack/hit/rend/mortal wounds or some kind of teleport/extra movement option etc they would be amazing but there is little to support playstyle based on Thralls in Battletome. That's why I think they missed the opportunity with Soulrender, Lotann and Leviadon as they could easily have some kind of huge Namarati buffs or even Spell like that affects only Namarati.

Yep in Fuethan Tidecaster got to be general - to reverse the tide ability.I on't think that you need screenin units that much but you got to be good wit deployment it's an issue mainly in Volturnos list, as Fuethan has Namarati to guard objectives and you can screen with them as well. Item selection on Aspect is just tesing different options, recently played two games with Volturnos list and switched artifact for those and it opened up a lot of possibilities.

Nope, those are HaggNarr I've played with Draichi Ganeth quite a lot but those lists were quite different. In HaggNarr maybe you could use Morssar but Ishlaen arent that needed with 5++ units.

Sure Dhoim-Haim I use is : Volturnos, Aspect of the Storm (Cloud of Midnight), Soulscryer, Tidecaster(Steed of Tides), 9 Morssar, 2x6 Morssar Fuethan is : Tidecaster, 2xSoulscryer, Aspect of the Storm(Ethereal Amulet), 9 Morssar, 6 Morssar, 5 Heartrenders

@Kaleun yep I'm doing very fine with - actually only games I've lost out of last 15+ were 3 games against Nagash , it's bad match up but also I was very unlucky in two of them (once I lost all 3 crucial rolls, and once I failed to cast Mirrorpool on 5+) and competitive wise it's really bad match-up so I had to drop my 2x20 Blood Sisters build and narrowed my lists to 2 army builds 1) is pretty standard Morathi, Slaughter Queen, Slaughter Troupe build 2) is a build I'm playing with right now - Slaughter Queen, Bloodwrack Shrine, 2xHag Queen, 2x10 SoS, 30 Witches, 20 Blood Sisters, 2x5 Heartrenders, Slaughter Troupe , I've played like only 5 games with it as I'm playtesting Deepkins as well and it's doing really, really fine - a lot of bodies, SoS are great as screens, great mobility.

I am playing without Morathi recently and list is working really fine

I've played a lot comeptitive AoS with Deepkins recently. Mainly two builds Fuethan Reverse Tides Alpha Strike and Dhom-Haim Volturnos Eels, I had more fun with Volturnos but you need Aspect of The Storm in it (in Fuethan you can go both ways) I've used Doppleganger Cloak (pre FAQ), Ethereal Amulet and Cloud of Midnight on him and like Cloud of Midnight best but Ethereal Amulet is great as well.

I think GW should flesh out some characters they've already created/changed like Volturnos, Deepkin society, Kharadron lords I now it's more about Gods but still apart from Sigmar we haven't heard much about them. Even a story about Malerion, Morathi and Ulgu would be great. I think some characters could return like Araloth (who could return and reunite all small Aelven factions to some degree) but I would love to read about new heroes like Volturnos or some kind of iconic Stormcast then recycle old ideas.