PlasticCraic

I would second the comment from @Forrix that the categorisation of Battletomes needs slightly more refinement. There is a world of difference between the Ironjawz Battletome and the Bonesplitterz Battletome for example. You are currently classifying Bonesplitterz as "Old" which is incorrect by your own definition, because it does have Allegiance Abilities. There were essentially 3 eras: BINOs: Battletome In Name Only. Essentially a collection of Warscrolls and Lore. Includes some Batallions, but comes with no Allegiance Abilities, no spell lore, no chapter tactics, no artefacts, no prayer lore, no mount traits, no nothing. Examples: Ironjawz, Fyreslayers, Seraphon. AOS 1 Battletomes: A clear demarcation after the original GH dropped, and Sylvaneth and Bonesplitterz books came out shortly afterwards. Allegiance Abilities and artefacts were introduced. There is a sliding scale and evolution within this, so for example Bonesplitterz have only 6 spells and 12 artefacts, whereas Tzeentch has page after page after page of goodies. KO came with chapter tactics which was the first time they had been seen in AOS, and so on. (Important to note that because BCR and KO are both considered weak currently, that does not make their Battletomes "old": they do have Allegiance Abilities and artefacts. They are just weaker AOS 1 Battletomes, not old in the sense that Ironjawz is old. They do actually contain some free rules, they're just poor quality compared to some other books from around that time or later). Examples: Bonesplitterz, Sylvaneth, Tzeentch. AOS 2 Battletomes: Nurgle onwards. Designed with AOS 2nd ed and things like free summoning in mind. Examples: Gloomspite Gits, DOK, FEC.

Bingo

That's correct with Sporesplattas, they shield anything behind them from Line of Site (but not themselves). Hoppers are Battleline If and faster. I think they may have overestimated the value of Battleline If in this case, because it's not hard to fill out 3+ in this army, and Stabbas are the heartbeat of the army rather than a tax. Boingrots are generally worth the 10 extra points.

You both make valid points...I am one of those people who recognises the crapness of the Aleguzzler Gargant, but still uses it anyway! I think the main point that makes the Bonegrinder a serious competitive option is the 6" pile in. It's hard to overstate how powerful that is. That alone makes him amazing. In my opinion (having used both a fair bit) - both are great fun, but only the Bonegrinder is a competitive choice. Just a couple of things to point out for anyone not aware: - The Bonegrinder special abilities (instakill, jump up and down) are in the combat phase. Not in "your" combat phase. So you get to do it in both players' turns Another reason he is legit. Give that man a Hero keyword! - If you pile in from 6" on a Gristlegore, you will be doing so during the combat phase. Not at the start of the combat phase. Gristlegore has its own little window that it has to activate it (it's not optional) - once that window has passed, it's SOL. So you won't just swing first on it, you will prevent it from swinging at all that turn. Then if you double turn it, retreat out, rinse and repeat!

Not least because he can fly, so he can get over your screens to counter punch I also like both, and also agree that it's a shame their roles are so similar...and also agree that the Mangler is a little more flexible on the table. I think Fly is one of the underrated reasons for that.

Phoenix Guard was former Destruction forum stalwart @Chris Tomlin, he consistently does very well with them! It's really not that weird to see him up on the top tables with his Phoenix Guard

@Dead_Duardin wowzer, they didn't make it easy for you! Great job.

It's not strictly needed, but the reason I took it was: - Extra CP to multibang the extra shots / run into position - Summoning included in the Batallion is worth on average >200 points per game* - Extra artefact - One-drop gives you a coin flip chance against Sylvaneth which would otherwise be impossible to shift - Bravery bonus (not a reason to take it, but a small added bonus) *Assuming you lose all your units...which you won't in most games. But with the CP that is very useful in this build, it effectively only costs 60 points for the second Batallion, so it's very likely to work out as being points efficient. With the other benefits, it starts to look like a good deal.

Yeah I use Gargants way more than I should too! They really needed an updated warscroll, that was a missed opportunity. At the moment it's all risk and little reward. Thanks for the tournament write up, it's a good read! Glad to hear the Squigs are working for you, I might have to give that a go! I'd only used them as minimum Battleline but it's a good point on the rerolls to charge.

Thinking of running Bonegrinz in a few weeks' time...going to SAGT over in Adelaide, and list submission is Sunday night. I wanted to take Mixed Destro with a Magma Dragon because it's more fun, but I'm not sure I'll get it all painted in time. Let's see how it goes this weekend! The Bonegrinz list would be this one: Summoning is only on a 6+, but you do get 5 cracks at it every game (or zero if your opponent concedes Turn 2 and you haven't lost a unit!). One drop means you can alpha strike most things by multi banging the extra attacks, or use the CPs to run multiple times and clog up the board against stuff you can't kill. Any suggestions on CT + Artefact loadout? Shoutout to @svnvaldez for the Ragged Cloak btw...so, so good on the Savage Big Boss! And would people take the Big Stabbas, or bump them for something else (e.g. a Wardokk + bank some CPs)?

Not trying to put a downer on the whole book by the way - it's a great toolkit to work with. It's specifically the keyword bingo that I dislike and which I believe went to an unnecessary extent, particularly in the context of the full-blown insanity of some of the stuff in FEC and Skaven (Verminlords are *fine*...but let's stop the Fungoid taking an artefact from a half-baked table of 3!). It's still a very good book. Way more hits than misses in there.

Absolutely, it's definitely a strong (and complex) book. But I do also think it's accurate to say (or at least fair to speculate) that it will shake out to be the least strong of the 3 new Battletomes. Time will tell!

Yep, probably my favourite thing about the book. Love the sculpt too. The spells are excellent, but hobbled by short range. Coupled with the fact that most of them are 3 wounds, I struggle to see you actually getting to use them very often. They will often die to incidental plink damage before you get close. I think you can still make a good army with them in there, because that will be because what surrounds them is strong enough to carry an inefficient unit (ok technically 5 inefficient units!), which is what I think they are. Breaking them down: Scaremonger: has a chance to make a Moonclan Grot unit reroll its run or charge. Of limited value when generic CAs are significantly better and this army is awash with them. I would never take him on his own. Brewgit: useful, mainly for buffing Skragrott's shooting. I quite like this guy for that reason. Wish he had 4 wounds. Spiker: has a chance to make a Moonclan Grot unit reroll wound rolls of 1. Very useful, especially for buffing up a Moonclan Deathstar and fishing for those 6s for MWs. Boggleye: very nice passive Battleshock immunity (bypasses the Nighthaunt batallion that blocks Inspiring Presence too). Or making an enemy unit fight last - although there is other access to the same effect in this book. Itchy Nuisance for one has a longer range, and it's a real edge case thing that you'd need to double up on them. Shroomancer: has the Troggoth Hag spell, but with a cripplingly short range of 8". Amazing on the rare occassions you will get to cast it. Overall, there are a couple of interesting pieces and a couple of taxes in there imo, which makes the overall package quite poor value. Question for the people who are using them: are you using the Batallion, or not?

Yep, totally agree. Fanatics are another one btw...Grots that aren't Grots, WTF! I get the idea, but when you look at the overall power level of book compared to the others that have been coming out, it feels a bit petty to me. Gobbapalooza is the place where all the keyword bingo comes together into one big, warscroll-crippling mess. By this stage the contortions are so twisted and wracked that most of the utility has been wrung out of these awesome models. I've passed on them completely for now. On a more positive note, one thing to point out for anyone who hasn't cottoned on (which I'm sure you have @Skabnoze) is that Brewgit can buff Skragrott's shooting attack, which is probably its best use in my opinion.

@Bailey The Cat yeah it's one of the few loose rules in the book imo. I'm leaning to your interpretation too, but it would have been worth an FAQ I think. Maybe submit it, and they might catch it in the next update?

Totally agree, it feels like a great opportunity to do a cool and powerful list With models that a lot of people already have in their collections, too.

List looks good! No you are correct, my mistake. Most of my Squig armies have included the Squigalanche, and he can be part of that one, which is where I got confused...the Stampede is only the "basic" Mangler. I'm not sure about the consensus, but in my Mixed lists I strongly prefer Gitmob over Orruks if I can find the extra 20 points somewhere. They've won me a lot of games, on those small bases, being ignored then swamping Objectives late on!

Fun Fact: this would also qualify for Stoneklaw's Gutstompas (Firestorm), because everything has Ironjawz, Greenskinz or Moonclan keywords Edit: Firestorm cannot include named characters, boo! I'm really interested in lists like this, in fact we were discussing a similar topic in the Destruction WhatsApp last night. I love the explosive potential of the extra Mangler in the Batallion...I do wonder though if those points could just go on extra Boingrots instead? In the version below you would have 10 attacks per Bounder = 300 high quality attacks, plus the Mortal Wound output, plus the Mangler, plus Gordrakk 2 attacks base + 2 from Gordrakk + 1 from Snufflers per unit. Times 2 weapon profiles, times 30 Boingrots (That might be going too far to be fair...you might be better off upgrading at least some the Orruks to Gitmob Grots for screening purposes, or putting in a third Hero). Allegiance: Stoneklaw's GutstompasMortal Realm: UlguLeadersLoonboss on Mangler Squigs (300)- General- Trait: Ravager- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (580)Battleline10 x Orruks (80)- Choppas & Shields10 x Orruks (80)- Choppas & Shields10 x Orruks (80)- Choppas & ShieldsUnits15 x Boingrot Bounderz (300)15 x Boingrot Bounderz (300)6 x Sneaky Snufflers (70)6 x Sneaky Snufflers (70)BattalionsSquig Rider Stampede (140)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 141

I guess you mean Mixed Destruction topic? There actually is a thread for that on here:

Yeah, they still have to select a unit then lose the attacks. It's incredibly powerful, which is why it was nerfed to once per game. Still very viable though.

There's a cool mission in the IJ Battletome that revolves around Kunnin' Tricks...well worth a play through for anyone who hasn't done so. There's a neat mini game at the start where you and your opponent are trying to bluff each other,

3x Spear Chukkas at 360 points Goblin Shaman + 60 Gitmob archers at 350 points I like and use both in Destruction armies...which do you think is the best Ally choice for Gloomspite?

It's certainly not a bad suggestion, although I do think it underlines the original point at the same time. You'll do an average of 3.33 wounds, so just enough to kill one (assuming it's not in cover)...somebody smarter than me can figure out the chances of doing at least 3 wounds, but I don't think it would be much over 60%? So you need a 160 point model plus more output from elsewhere to have a reliable chance of killing it...that doesn't make the Gobba a bad suggestion (at all), but I do think it demonstrates how efficient the Warpfire Thrower itself is at 70 points!

Yeah, 70 points for the Warpfire Thrower teams is just madness. The importance of allocating output to them is way in excess of what a 70 point unit has any right to expect! They're almost an argument for bringing in some Shootas, because that little bit of plink damage could be invaluable.

Nah purely theoryhammer on my part @Mayple Obviously want to be as prepared as possible for when I start facing them though... so I'm interested in hearing how other people would approach it. The parts of the book that stand out to me as difficult to deal with for GG in particular are: Thanquol: deletes hordes, doesn't care about To Hit rolls Verminlord Corruptor: deletes hordes, doesn't care about To Hit rolls, only has to tag one model to blow up the whole unit, can Skitterleap into range for that, has access to Arcane terrain Verminlord Warpseer: functionally invincible, grants wide-ranging immunity to Battleshock Warp Lightening Cannon: can delete our Heroes, and thereby remove our Battleshock immunity (away from the rock) in a way we can't do to them Jezzails: can Skitterleap into position for LOS and delete our Heroes, and thereby remove our Battleshock immunity (away from the rock) There's probably more, but that's a few things off the top of my head that I believe will make this a bad matchup for GG.