Vasshpit

I absolutely love, and salute, the fact that orc fans instantaneously see new kits and think "I can totally make that into something else I can use"!!! ✊ ⬅️ green!! I thought the same except for Bonesplitterz. Seems to be more boarboyz size AND I really dont care for the existing kits. Gravelords... can not wait!! I love it all with Blood Knights being my least fav. I currently have ten Black Knights and a foot Wight King on the table in preparation for the release. I'm also going to kit bash the new skellies with them to have a more cohesive look. My bets on a few more unannounced goodies still to come. Well played, Gdubs, well played.

So no "1 more day day" silhouette tease?...

HOBGROTS!!!

Think they may just be place holders.

Ok, so if OBRs basic infantry had been more designed like that and less cartoony I'd of been all over them!! The idea behind that army is really cool but the model execution just killed it for me. That design is just awesome and screams ancient elite bone construct warrior!! Hopefully they get a kit like those and I'll just convert them to basic infantry.

Nope! And seeing as you've got an Orruk as your avatar I'm looking forward to whatcha post. 👍😃

@Popisdead I have no expectations, only assumptions. I can assume that it's a return to a very well established setting and can assume that many iconic things from said setting, a.k.a. Black Orcs, will make a return along with new things like the previewed Kislev. I'm sure we'll see orcs I'm some form or another. I agree that old plastics wont make a return but those underlying concepts, again a.k.a. Black Orcs, will return. Again, just an assumption but I bet a fairly safe one. I just dont think there's a need for them in both setting was my point. Also, I may be naive on this but I'd bet GW owns the copyrights to Tomb Kings. 😉

I've always just added the pics to the post.

@Backbreaker Awesome Urruk Hai styled helmets. 👍 I'd really like to see Brutes able to loadout like Evocators, being able to mix & match all available weapon options. This wouldn't break them but it might give a boost. I'm not a #s player but someone may be able to tell if this would help at all. They really did get neutered this last go around. those weapons are bigger than most infantry models and you're telling me they're rend -1... Pssssh.... Grot, please....😄

Not really an answer to your question but those are really cool!👍 Perhaps a gargant skeleton or some old worn down effigy to Gorkamorka would be cool!

@Tizianolol single model

@Popisdead I almost mentioned the chaos dwarves part. I do not know enough about them so is that official cannon? Also I didnt quite understand your Old world point. It's coming back...🤔 And at your ignore it point, I'm a fan and wanted to know how others felt about something that I feel strongly about. This is a forum for discussion of this setting we all enjoy is it not? If High Aelves and other factions can be totally rebooted in a sense why not Orruks. Yes I'd rather they were removed but if they stay, they stay, if not then no worries. Its like you said I dont have to use them. But like @Ganigumo and others have pointed out their warscroll is just too good to pass on which is just beyond silly to me!!🤪 I just feel there is way more than enough creative room for Jawz to stand on their own in this new setting than to have and rely on left overs from a canceled one. Even ones as cool and iconic as Black Orcs.

@Souleater To the contrary I have nothing but!! Also that setting is still active and growing albeit slowly. The setting that the "OG"s were such an iconic part of was disintegrated!! Oh and it's coming back. This isnt The Old World any more. Ironjawz aren't black orcs. They're different. That's all I'm saying. Let's evolve and grow just like the Ironjawz had to. 😉

Good morning all. Thanks for the size comp reference pics! I'm still undecided if ill be using the BB black orcs for any kind of conversions as of yet but those wonderful pics above are great inspiration non the less. @PlasticCraic In regards to overlap. Lets start by reiterating the fact the The Old World was wiped clean and with it the iconic Black Orc. They were the biggest, meanest, and greenest things around and rightly so. Enter the age of chaos were as most other races and factions were still hiding, etc, Orcs (Orruks) continued to do what they do best. They regarded this as a blessing from Gorkamorka as they saw continuous never ending battle on a level never seen before. And in doing so grew larger, more aggressive, and battle hardened than their Black Orc predecessors. Hell, the basic foot boy was now larger than most Warbooses before. They payed their dues in blood and this gave way to a new breed of orc (orruk), the mother trucking Ironjawz. Now when A0S first released and Jawz being an early first, I really think GW wasn't %100 sure on what direction to go with AoS. Is it a skirmish, is it a large scale army game, etc, so they threw Ardboyz in there to help fill out the roster without having to make new models and such. They retained all there current design lore as being this serious and more regimental version of Orc they are, where as now they are no longer the top of the food chain. (apparently they just sat back through they age of chaos. 0_o ) So in this regard they are just smaller versions of this new breed. So now we have a brand new setting and two Orruk breeds. One that payed their dues and ones that just didn't die off from the complete eradication of the the old world. GW has hinted at many times here and there that Jawz are not just mindless ravaging hordes but actually cunning for orruks, just like their now weedy Ardboy cousins, and even though their armor and weapon designs are much different you can see that Jawz still fashion theirs in a functional and intricate way also similarly to the way black orcs do/did. They just do it with their hands and dont forge it or have Grots build it for them. So now we have this large, cunning, (for orruks at least) battle hardened, heavily armored breed and essentially a smaller version of the same thing. Only they have a stick with some cloth and a drum that makes them better.... A stick and a drum. GW could easily rectify this by including a small upgrade sprue for the existing Brutes kit at the cost of a small $$$ update. Give it those two options and a couple shields and BAM you have removed, simplified, consolidated and updated this now subfaction by making Brutes the basic infantry unit. This paves the way for the often suggested larger elite, ELITE, Ironjawz unit. Something in between Brute and Megaboss size. Now if Jawz had stayed just Jawz and weren't consolidated into warclans then I could see a place going forward for ardoyz BUT we now have Bonesplitterz to play with. A smaller 2 wound Orruk that is more in line with larger blobs of models. So now we have large elite orruks, small horde orruks and small elite orruks. This is were my overlap opinion stems from and with the consolidation of Jawz and Bonez the only way forward is updates, new tools and new toys to this now consolidated faction. I just dont see the need or even room for ardboyz in the whole grand design of things. And now with the TOW coming back just makes it all the more reason to remove them from this setting. @Aelfric Made a good point about the lore being frustrating and vague. In truth its still in the early years of AoS compared to TOW and Destruction hasn't had all that much to boot. So its still early enough to make changes and establish a base line foundational setting. @Wobbly also makes some good points about orruks going from ardboys to Jawz or Bonez to Jawz, etc. There's tons of room here for opinions and solutions going either way. in conclusion Its my opinion that GW chose to destroy the TOW and they should own that and make something new and stop recycling old ideas. Let this new setting take shape. Let Ironjawz become to future Orruk (orc) fans what the iconic Ardboyz (black orcs) were to TOW fans. Or what was even the point in destroying it in the first place. Solve et coagula.

@PlasticCraic Ha! Sorry, busy night. I'll go more in depth on that if you'd like later. You're definitely more into the gaming and mechanics side of thing where as I am more painting, collecting, and lore. I've enjoyed many of your posts on such topics as well and found them very insightful. I'll get back soon.

@PlasticCraic you hit it dead center with your gameplay mechanics points. Brutes really did get neutered this last time around. My overlap opinion is mostly about design more than anything. (Heavely armored 3 wound orruks or heavely armored 2 wound orruks in the simplest terms. )

@PlasticCraic I agree they do look good with a headswap. I've seen it done a few times before here and there. Those are some good looking models btw. I agree that the Ardboyz (classic black orc) look is cool. It's just that I think they in and of themselves overlap too much with true Jawz in the current setting. And especially with ToW coming they just aren't needed here. This guy did some lonnnng ago like that.

@SunStorm Really nice work there! He looks to be on par scale wise but you can tell the artist gave them different anatomical proportions! My idea was to use him as a MawKrusha Boss or given his wounds, a Gordrakk conversion. Nice! I may still pick up that half of BB off Ebay. I'll wait awhile and see what GWs brings out for them first.

@SunStormThat whole BB Black orc team really are fantastic sculpts!! I'd love to use them for conversions but not sure for what as I'm staying away from Ardboyz and to make them look like proper Jawz would require loads of conversion work, at least for me, to get them to the same design level as Brutes. As a bit of a favor could you post Ghoulchewer next to a Megaboss if you have em? I've been super curious on size comparison.

@zilberfrid It is a pretty iconic look, I'll give ya that. And I do like it. if GW hadn't announced The Old World I'd feel a little less differently but I think they should be left there were they ARE the iconic bad mother- truckers they are and let this new setting take shape of it's own where true Jawz reign king!! I hope Gdubs can figure a route to please all.

@Wobbly Loving that logic!! Here's to hoping Gdubs approach to their future is in line with this. ✊

@Wobbly I'm going to go with option #2.

@Aelfric Good points on the fat middle ground. That seems like it's just Mawtribes with small Orruks though to me. I remember reading about the trading snippet and found that pretty interesting as well. With regards to your lumineth reference, yes they are all Aelves but within that faction there are not different breeds of Aelves like what we have with Orruks hence the "make them bigger and they just become brutes" point which just adds to redundancy. It's really is a strange plateau of design that GW put themselves into I think. I wish they would have just abandoned Ardboyz all together at the start of AoS but too late now.

@zilberfrid Any idea on what to do to their warscroll to make them more distinct? Why keep them if they're just 2 wound brutes with a great command trait? Remove that and what's their point? They really shouldn't get a better bravery than brutes. Also when you say better models than later do you mean you prefer the Ardboyz (black orc) look to the Ironjawz look? @Aelfric I also find the vagueary frustrating. What could a standard Orruk battletome bring to the table that either Warclans or Mawtribes doesn't? I just think it would be more redundant than anything. If you give them the "to eleven AoS" treatment and make them bigger then aren't they just Brutes? It seems so far that more want to keep them than dont. I really should have added a poll to this. I'm curious if those that want to keep them run heavy Ardboy lists or not Thanks for replying everyone.

I read this as separate breeds. It's from the Warclans Ardboyz description page.