Jacek

By the way, reading comments seems like many people think that win = killing all enemy units. There are objectives to be captured for the win. DoK have many good tools for that: Mirror Dance spell - I think this is a must now. Awesome, you can teleport 2 heroes almost wherever you want to keep their "wholly within" bubbles after your other units move in their movement phase. Khailebron - maybe can't apha strike but this CA is NOT considered mvement. So impact of not moving next movement phase is low. Why? You can teleport them again if needed. If they are in combat - you dont need move in most cases (I understand that you cant make retreat move then? Doesn't matter - you can teleport them OUT of combat now with CA, you should be able to because you can teleport hero in hero phase with Mirror Dance if needed so they are wholly within 12" at the end of movement phase when you use teleport CA) Khinerai - keeping them in reserve makes enemy to stay back with their stronger units defending their objectives and their army is more splitted. 80 points for that? awesome. Shadowstalkers - even one alive makes enemy contribute his units to defend objectives as well meaning he will not always be able to utilize all of his buffs etc Cauldrons - cheaper now and keeping your most important units in wholly within it's range is not that hard with mirror dance spell. Bloodwrack Shrines - AWESOME now. 160 points for 13 wounds, 2 dispel, 1 spel, impacts on charge, nice anty-horde shooting, dmg aura. Remember that it can benefit from Ironscale CA - as it is still MELUSAI (run 2d6 with that (re-roll 1s for run, shoot and still charge if needed) Ironscale - viable choice for 110 pts now, more of utility hero giving you more options for quick movement depending on what you want to play. In my opinion 1 is enough as you can't use CA more than once in a phase anyway Mindrazor - can't build army around only this spell. But there are possibilities to invest more resources (see above) when it kicks in to hit hard enemy with that bonus rend and dmg. Most probably bonus dmg will trigger more often based on charge than higher bravery. If it fails - you have possibility to plan for further rounds and each further round makes your army a bit stronger (blood rites) I had very close lost game vs OB (very, very good player + very good army) in a game when NONE of my teleports with mirror dance worked (all failed 6+ and he had no unbinds anyway). That is only my opinion but at least I see many possible options. Now DoK requires more thinking and positioning etc. but if executed correctly they are still deadly and have many possibilities to fight for objectives even in later rounds. And this is only very short time after leaks of new book. Some time later I think people will find more viable builds than before (of course difficulty of the army is raised a bit in general I suppose so don't expect auto-wins withot thinking) @Edit: In short - we have many tools to pick our fights when we want and are strong. If enemy is 1 deathball - we can just have a chase contest for objectives making enemy to split his forces and lose buffs. If you want to YOLO 1st turn then it will not work in most cases.

Anyone noticed that now you can fight with 1 unit in hero phase twice for 2 CP? The order is important: 1. Use slaughter Queen CA (she can select only unit that did not fight that phase yet) 2. Use Morathi's CA (she can use it once in hero phase) Profit

Small units and I rarely failed battleshock. I think in those 2 games failed once only and lost 1 bloodsister total. I took Vyperic Guard for drops reduction, was testing anyway

Hi, I played some test games on TTS with new rules that were leaked. Must say even though I lost both - it was very close and I also made some mistakes as I am still learning. Games were fun and it was not one sided from the start (that is what is most important for me) Both games were for Total Conquest scenario. Played vs OB with this (lost 17 to 20): Temple: Khelt Nar (can retreat and still charge in same turn) Morathi Khaine (210) - spell: Mindrazor Shadow Queen (390) Bloodwrack Medusa (100) - GENERAL - Command Trait: The circling flock (summon 5x Khinerai 9" from enemy anywhere) - artefact: Gaisas Falx (6 on hit for 1 weapon = 2 hits, selected melee weapon) - spell: Mirror Dance Melusai Ironscale (110) Slaughter Queen (100) - artefact: Iron Circlet - prayer: Catehism of Murder (6 on hit with melee = 2 hits, can use in hero phase) Units 10x Blood Sisters (260) 10x Blood Sisters (260) 15x Blood Stalkers (420) Battalions: Vyperic Guard (140) Total: 1990 2 drop total: 1. Morathi + SQ +bloodwrack + ironscale + blood sisters + blood sisters + blood stalkers 2. Slaughter Queen Played vs IDK with this (lost 20 to 28 but allowed my opponent to go back in hero phase after I killed his general so he could be immune that phase, else I think would be my win. It was for learning and fun, even with going back he survived on 1 wound with awesome saves): Temple: Hagg Nar Morathi Khaine (210) - spell: Mindrazor Shadow Queen (390) Bloodwrack Shrine (160) - GENERAL - Command Trait: Devoted Disciple (fanatical faith save 5+ [only for normal wounds, not MW] wholy within 12") - artefact: The Ulfuri (+1 dmg to 1 of weapons if made charge) - spell: Mirror Dance Hag Queen on Blood Cauldron (220) - artefact: Iron Circlet - prayer: Blessing of Khaine Units 10x Blood Sisters (260) 5x Blood Sisters (130) 10x Blood Stalkers (280) 5x Khinerai Lifetakers (80) 5x khinerai Lifetakers (80) Battalions: Vyperic Guard (140) Endless spells: Bloodwrack Viper (40) - 7+ - Wholly within 9" - move 9" (fly) - 1 unit 1", 3 dice, >= Wounds is slain for each dice Total: 1990 4 drop total: 1. Morathi + SQ +bloodwrack + blood sisters + blood sisters + blood stalkers 2. Hag Queen on cauldron 3. 5x khinerai 4. 5x khinerai Both lists were made in short time so for sure can be improved but it shows that DoK for snakes are fun (I was never interested much in WA / SoS builds so I can't say as I have no experience there) Mirror Dance spell is awesome

and most probably pay 80 pts for each

I personally ike the changes. Now heroes (especially medusas) are AWESOME ! 100 pts for wizard with 2 unbinds, nice anty-horde shooting and good hitting. Add 60 pts to give her 13 W total, imact hits on charge and dmg aura. I did not see that avatar scroll but if they add 1 to prayers - we get heart of fury practically guaranteed with circlet (re-roll 1s) + it will be very easy to animate it (as well with re-rolls 1). It can hit hard as well so it is not "wasted" points. Maybe we dont have alpha strike now but with good positioning etc. we can afford to wait few turns to get more blood rites. I myself prefer snakes (and I dont have much WA / SoS) and it seems they will be playable and will be able to hit hard as well. So what if now we have wholly within? All new books go in that direction (same as command trait AND artefact for each temple). Now it seems that very good players can acheive very good results while bad players will not. I think that is a good thing because it makes us to think what we want to use in the army list and how we want to use it. Mirror dance can also help solving the problem with slow cauldrons so we have a way to make it work most of the time (can even teleport heroes from combat).

Theoretically you can if you use mirror dance spell? You can teleport your cauldron 9" from enemy and then if you charge with your 30 block you should be wholly within that 12"?

nah, its heroes

1. You use it in hero phase 2. Target unit that hasn't fought in that phase (meaning in hero phase) to not use it on single unit multiple times (seems like you can use it for multiple units) 3. You can pile in. Fight = pile in and attack From core rule book: If you pick a unit to fight, it first piles in, and then the models in the unit must attack.

Someone provided this link on one of FB groups Here it is - photos from new battletome: https://imgur.com/a/MPXRQ6v have a nice read

Hi, I'm new. Can someone tell me where can I find that scroll? Are those wholly new units? I will be glad for any info about those. Thank you

My only idea for Ironscale is in the build with hagg nar, 20 blood sisters near cauldron, buff 20 sisters with prayer for 5+ faith save reroll and then they have survi to stay after ironscale kills a model. Problem with that build is that if you want to keep Morathi in the list - you put all eggs in one basket and there is not much points to get something else. I did not test it yet but maybe will try and let you know

That seems very nice. I have total of 40 melusai (not yet glued together so Im deciding what to make, was thinking 20 Blood Sisters and 20 Blood Stalkers) so this kind of build I would have to sacrifice 5 Blood Sisters -.- Anyone got experience maybe in magnetising melusai? Maybe magnet like 10 of them to swap between bows and spears when needed? In that case would have to magnetise weapons, heads and quivers /addons ? Seems like a lot of work but if it is possible - saves a lot of money

Thank you for pointing that out, I missed that as well. Now when I check it seems right: When you pick the Daughters of Khaine allegiance for your army, you can say it will be a Zainthar Kai army. If you do so, it has access to the Temple of Khaine rules at the bottom of this page and can include the warscroll battalions to the right. So I understand: If I pick Zainthar Kai then I can use those warscroll battalions I double checked that now, seems you are right - in Shadow and Pain cost is 140 I used Warscroll Builder and it seems price there is not valid (120), not sure why. Shooting army then seems bad idea, thank you all for pointing my mistakes. So what do you guys think about below 2k snakes melee ? Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine - Temple: Hagg Nar LEADERS Bloodwrack Medusa (140) - General - Command Trait: Devoted Disciples - Lore of Shadows: Shroud of Despair Melusai Ironscale (140) Hag Queen on Cauldron of Blood (290) - Artefact: Crown of Woe - Prayer: Blessing of Khaine Morathi-Khaine (210) - Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor The Shadow Queen (390) UNITS 10 x Sisters of Slaughter (120) - Barbed Whips and Blade Bucklers 10 x Witch Aelves (120) or 5 x Blood Sisters (140) - Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers 20 x Blood Sisters (480) 5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80) TOTAL: 1970/2000 (or 1990 in case of 5 Blood Sisters instead of Aelves) WOUNDS: 108 1. Got a bit of survi (save 4+ near cauldron and 5+ faith rerolled with prayer) for big unit of snakes. This somehow mitigates fact that in most cases enemy will decide who goes first and also for snakes to survive when Ironscale fights before Blood Sisters for +1 attack bonus. 2. Can get +2 attack bonuses for Blood Sisters (1 from Shadow Queen and 1 from Ironscale) and also possibility of fighting in hero phase (but then no bonus from Ironscale so max 4 attacks per Blood Sister) 3. If Mindrazor comes in: Crown of Woe reduces enemy bravery -1, Shroud of Despair: chance to reduce -1 to -3, Avatar on Cauldron: DoK bravery +1. If that kicks in: each Blood Sister 5 attacks -2 rend 2 damage (in most cases), 3+ (rerolls from turn 3) /3+ (rerolls from Hag) Basically keep army together as much as possible, use 2 small battlelines as screens / meatshields etc and hit hard with 20 Blood Sisters. I hope I did not make any mistakes now?

Thank you for input, I'm new with DoK and failed to notice. Seems like pew pew tactic is not so great but still I think I'll tweak it a bit and try it (in that case let you know)

Hi, My advice: Pink horrors are in "Start Collecting! Daemons of Tzeentch" box. It is way better to get 2-3 of those if you want daemons (cheaper in cash than buying separateley). Need to buy Blue (with brim in same box) horrors separately. Unless you find some really good deals somewhere?

I made a list of shooting DoK, 2 drop total and made to buff Blood Stalkers as much as possible (I think) Allegiance: Daughters of Khaine - Temple: Khailebron LEADERS Bloodwrack Medusa (140) - General - Command Trait: Mistress of Illusion - Artefact: Shadow Stone - Lore of Shadows: Steed of Shadows Hag Queen (100) - Artefact: Iron Circlet - Prayer: Catechism of Murder Morathi-Khaine (210) - Lore of Shadows: The Withering The Shadow Queen (390) UNITS 10 x Witch Aelves (120) - Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers 10 x Witch Aelves (120) - Sacrificial Knives and Blade Bucklers 5 x Blood Sisters (140) 15 x Blood Stalkers (360) 5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80) 5 x Khinerai Lifetakers (80) BATTALIONS Cauldron Guard (120) Vyperic Guard (140) TOTAL: 2000/2000 WOUNDS: 99 Due to points limitation - losing 1 artefact but it is 2 drop total and also got 3 CP + 1 free command ability from Vyperic Guard In theory can get nice dmg output (if you get double turn then should be horryfing): 1. give your opponent 1st turn (as we try to aim for fast double turn) Your hero phase: 2. on your first turn teleport Blood Stalkers into range of shooting (24") if they are out of it (remember to keep them in range of Morathi and Hag Queen) If they are already in range - can teleport Morathi so she is in range of the withering (18") on enemy and still in range of her Command Ability (Blood Stalkers wholly in 24"). Can save it for something else if no need for above teleports 3. Prayer: Catehism of Murder on blood Stalkers (circlet makes it easier) 4. Morathi casts the withering on Blood Stalkers target (+1 to wound) 5. PEW PEW PEW in hero phase - 30 attacks, 3+ (6s are mortal wounds AND additional hit if prayer kicks in) / 3+ (2+ with withering) / rend -1 Your Shooting Phase 6. repeat PEW PEW PEW (same as point 5) 7. If there is double turn - repeat from point 2. Khinerai are there to help get objectives Shadow Queen can aslo combat something etc. Witch Aelves are for battlelines limit only and also fit into battalion , can use those as screens What do you think?