Horizons

I was hoping for something like this when that tome was announced. Had bought the DoK half of Shadow and Paine, 2 Boxes of Drusa Kraeth. I had a really nice Har Kuron army. Was hoping to see a temple that coalitioned in Darkling Covens, Order Serpentis and Privateers. The Darkling Covens synergieses with the DoK abilities really well. Re-roll run rolls of 1 is great for your Executioners/Blackguard. Sorceress is a great way to get that sweet sweet Mindrazor off. Alas I'll just have to stick with my current Allegiance abilities *checks notes* 1 in 4 DoK and lose Cities bonuses. Oh. Rumours: As much as I want Malerion Aleves to be their own unique faction I can see them joining DoK. Kruleboyz has shown that they can be creative and still have it work with the other clans. If the rumour of the underworlds warbands are true, my guess is we'll see that Warband join DoK just like the Umbraneth warband. That dual-box could be really interesting if it's a CoS band of Monster Hunters, think Witch Hunter and crew Vs. a Band of monster tamers, Whip Dark Aelf and company and a big monster.

I for sure thought that rumour was from the missing Kruleboyz model. Looking back at the missing model it really didn't match up with the RE, which can only mean one thing. Giant swamp mechs for Kruleboyz!! Battleline in Skullbugz lets go!

It correctly guessed the Pirate Ogor (albeit after the parrot was revealed) but also specified the monkey. I choose to believe this rumour, we'll get confirmation once the next warband is revealed. A necromancer + undead is a wild but not impossible guess with the lightning hint. Which means CoS / Malerion Aelves core box. Which as a CoS/Darkling Covens player really excites me. That Aelf in the preview is so confusing... it's a Sister of Slaughter.... If it is from the Mortal realms it's an odd model. Maybe a new hero for Cursed city, a member of the Underworlds Malerion elves... a little dissapointing design-wise. Unless as hinted above it's actually the Beast handler of some creepy crawly creature from Ulgu! The bland design is so it doesn't pull away from the crazy monster.

True, but Cities have been doing good. There are a lot of armies that have a greater need for buffs. Overall I'm happy. What's really great is their commitment to quarterly changes and they've hit some of the bigger issues, Amulet and God-models.

How about the worst of both worlds? Griffin with a Dark Elf Rider conversion. I like the Cities changes, Irondrakes were overperforming compared to other ranged units, they'll still be better, you just won't feel as silly running Darkshards, Sisters and Handgunners now. Kragnos changes are awesome but I can't seem to find a place for him in my armies, would be fun with Hordes of Gutrippaz, 3D6 + 2 makes your boys pretty fast.

Temper your expectations. They aren't looking to make a huge splash and change points across the board. People who are expecting huge point changes across the board are going to be in for a surprise. This balance update will most likely be similar to the 40K one. Expect some changes point or warscrolls to the biggest culprits (Nagash, Archaon, Sentinels). Then expect maybe 1 or 2 low performing army to get some slight changes there.

It is a lot of book keeping but I think a lot of people are making it harder then it seems. Movement phase - Anything in combat? Yes. Disease counter. Combat phase - Anything still engaged? Yes. Disease counter. Roll in Battleshock phase. Rinse repeat. EDIT: The fact that they "keyworded" the damage roll, disease roll, makes me think they'll have things that interact with it.

In the Dominion box? Can't see them really change anything. We already got a point drop on the Kruleboyz half of the box, as for SCE none of the models in that box are problematic. Lumineth Sentinels, would expect a change, either points or rules. Who knows. I expect the December FAQ/Update to be similar to the 40k one. Nerfs to top armies and changes/buffs to weaker armies. Don't expect sweeping changes to every army. But that's just my guess.

To be fair Underworlds were already Ghur/Era of the Beast themed for two years? Beastgrave and Direchasm... Not sure about Shadespire/Nightvaults location. Yes they are Ulgu themed and that may be the next destination but maybe we have 1 more year of Ghur/Era of the beast.

Especially if they lean harder into the idea of seasons. This season is era of the beast, extra VP's for Killing monsters completing battletactics with monsters. Next season could favour hordes, maybe increase the alotted reinforcement slots, extra VP's for destroying reinforced units or scoring battle tactics with reinforced units. Allows them to add enough new rules, heck just changing up the Battle Tactics drastically changes the game. The Game could easily be fresh and therefore forego 3 year production cycle. As for the Old World I think these rumours make sense, we know design and lead up to an army can take a long time. Never played WHFB but I am curious to try ToW.

New DoK tome and new edition weren't too kind to Har Kuron. Morathi is still amazing but she's two DoK units so it becomes difficult to fit more and because Har Kuron spell lore doesn't specify Unique Wizards, you can't take Vitriolic Spray on Morathi. I think the best thing to take is probably Morathi still. A Priest with curse, Portal+Spray heavily favours High# of attacks hordes. I personally like Darkshards but Corsairs are fine. Neither are really competitive but can be fun. And Snakes are cool. Play Har Kuron for flavour not competition.

If the new Nurgle Battlebox is a sign of how new starter sets are made I'm pretty glad. Limiting the amount of heroes means we can get more value from buying multiple boxes. Why I liked the BR boxes so much. Got two Dragons and managed to buy more cheap troops second hand. Hints of Ulgu and mount traits for my Dark Elves?! Pretty excited.

Which turns their 4+ saves to 3+ ignoring rend 1/2(if AoD,Finest Hour). I think that's a reasonable place to be. It requires a lot of resources and generally can be played around. I think that's why Sylvaneth haven't been a problematic army. I think they examplify save stacking done well. @Kadeton I think @Neil Arthur Hotep idea that any defenses should be breachable is wrong but also the idea that making something immortal is also wrong. I think SC saves seem to be at an acceptable place, we'll have to see how it turns out gameplay wise. You can stack a 5+ ward, +4 save on a target but it requires Mystic Shield, Castellant buff, All out defense and Finest Hour. In this situation it's almost impossible to one shot the God model but the right situation can happen where you do take it out in a round or two of combat. He didn't Finest Hour, you get a roar. Basically I think insane save stacking can be good if it's either limited/can be played around, or the target had relatively low saves to start. +4 to save once a game is fine, it's the fact that it's always present that is problematic. Just how constant rend -3 would be problematic but 1 buffed up turn of extra rend/turn off his saves is great.

Yup this is unfortunately the route I se happening, then maybe they add invulnerable saves... I hope the tools they add aren't just higher rend. I think access to rend 2/3 is important but Also other ways to circumvent high saves. Vitriolic Spray, Krondys's new - 1 to save spell. These are good because they answer High saves without being too crippling to low save targets. Losing your 2+ on a 200 pts 9w Annihilators feels alot worse then your 6+ save 10w 100w/e chaff. Or spells similar to the new Kruleboyz spells or Battlemage Chamon which have better effects vs high saves. I think the current system can work. What they need to do is 1) Not make save stacking too accessible to high save armies. Hopefully an FAQ for StD/Tzeentch save stacking. 2) Increase access to rend, I think Ironjawz are perfect here, good rend across the board and amazing rend for 1 turn. 3) Other ways to penalize high save targets.Vitriolic Spray, Battlemage Chamon are interesting routes we could take.

I think the new tomes show that GW knew that save stacking could be problematic and that's why there is access to rend -2, -3 and MW's. I think there is a balance that needs to be achieved. It's just as frustrating to place your 800-1000 pts model and have it dissapear, then it is to have it be an unkillable menace. The fact only Archaon is problematic (competitively that is) shows that there currently is a pretty good balance. An interesting exercise could be to try and see what tools new books/armies would need to combat this trend. I disagree with the idea that mass +save auras are problematic, in the armies they currently appear in I think they're pretty essential. Fyreslayers, Sylvaneth, Daughters, OBR and Idoneth all have access to bubbles of + save and aren't problematic.

If this is a consideration the bravery system/values need to be completely reworked. GW doesn't take bravery into account when creating warscrolls. What I mean by that is they won't penalize a warscroll for having good bravery nor will they compensate another warscroll for having poor bravery. There are so many armies that are simply handed out 10 bravery while most of destruction is sitting at 4-5. I think a more interesting thing would be for them to add abilities that explore different ways to play with bravery. Gutrippaz Shield rule could have two options try to scare troops and give -1 (current rule) or goad a creature into attacking 2d6, lower than bravery unit cannot retreat. I think these rules would be much more interesting than high bravery good, low bravery bad. Although this wouldn't be an issue if bravery had any real weight on how expensive/strong a unit was.

If it takes longer for a new Cities book I'd feel pretty happy. Book still feels like it has legs and although there are some questionnable pts, 180 pts for Sisters vs. 160 for Drakes and they gutted Loose until the last. I do feel if the book does get updated we may lose some units/cities. I don't see them keeping all 11 subfactions. I am curious what changes they could possibly add in the White Dwarf. Also haven't had the chance to play Krondys in Hallowheart!

They can't! They have to wait at least another week before announcing the pre-order. I just caved in and bought Red Harvest.

I honestly think the stats highlight that, other than Archaon, the other big God models aren't really problematic. I completely agree that many armies, as it stands, don't have the tools to deal with 2+ saves but I hope that the trend we see in the new SC/Warclans book continues and new armies also gain ways to break through tough armor saves. Nagash OBR and Soulblight Gravelords lists dance around the 50% win rate. Which I think is a great place, they are viable tournament builds but aren't dominating and in the case of Gravelords aren't the only tournament build the faction has access to. When we look at the Disciples Tzeentch list I think it simply has access to too many tools on top of Archaon. Destiny Dice, turn 1 auto unbind, 6" pre Game move, Once a game change the result of a dice, it can't be modified. It really helps you protect Archaon before the buffs go up. Once they do we have reroll saves and multiple +saves to Ignore rend. StD shows a similar trend, Demon Prince of Khorn really messes up alpha charges and base line access to 5+ Spell Ignore an Reroll 1's to save are so strong. I'm curious to see if a blanket removal of those rerolls would help lower the win rates of these two lists. I think they need to change rerolls, I like how Celestial Vindicators, Big Yellerz and God Armor(name?) are designed. Rerolls are there But generally more limited, Once per unit/save dmg characteristics 2+. Personally I think it's important to be able to protect your big centerpieces, else they'll never see play, that's also not fun. I think stats show that save stacking isn't too problematic, it's mostly save stacking + Rerolls that is. Sucks for armies that don't have access to this, hopefully they get new books soon. GSG, BoC, Nighthaunt need books ASAP.

Right? I thought they were great and it was fun to play with the battalions while they lasted. Got two Kraeth's Shadowhunt since it easily allowed me to pick up my troops.

I'm basing this solely on the two v 3.0 tomes that we've seen but I believe save stacking was something they knew was going to happen and are ok with it being a part of the game. They seem to have upped rend across the board or have given tools to circumvent High saves. Kruleboyz with MW's to hit. Bonesplitterz with MW's to wound and access to rend 2 boars. Ironjawz with access to rend 3. I didn't play Stormcast before the new book but it seems there is a lot more rend 1, 2 and 3 then previously. Whether this will be enough is something we'll have to see. I can say I'm really happy that they changed how 1+ save and rend interacted.

I know, here I thought I had a bit more time to work through my backlog. Works for me, I'll just count it as an early birthday present!

I agree with most of what you said. Kind of disagree that Boltboyz are a trap. Spammed Boltboyz is a trap. For 120 pts they are amazing, arguably undercosted, considering we're an army that wants synergies and are taxed a Sludgeraker + Shaman it works out. They are both our cheapest battleline and our best threat projection at 120 pts. Beast-Skewers are just a little too unreliable. They are incredibly too fragile, lose 1 and you're looking at a 33% chance to lose a second to battleshock. 6 wounds on a 6+. I think Gutrippaz blocks with Boltboyz as threat projection is the way to go, either a pair of 6 man units or one 9 man. Gitz/Hobgrotz are fine bodies/screens. Completely agree on lacking a good trading piece. Although I find both versions of the Vulture to be a little lacking. I play a lot of Dark Elf CoS, they remind me of a Dreadlord on Black Dragon/Sorceress. Pretty unreliable damage But for <300 pts you could do worse.

Kruleboyz have a lot of tools that allows them to alphastrike or weather an enemy alpha strike. Supa Sneaky, Mistifying Miasma, Fast 'un allows us to easily get a turn 1 alpha strike with monsters or troops stationed 9" away. Kidnapping enemy screens also supports this playstyle. Your army really has to be built around this and it's most likely not our best build. We also have lots of tools to weather enemy alphas. Belcha-Banner, Covered in mud, Mork's Eye Pebble lets us protect our assets from magic/shooting alphas. Cheap Hobgrots that don't give an easy battle tactic + Noisy racket allows us to screen and hold on against fast alpha strike lists. MW spam is such a strong Allegiance ability, combined with the rest of our tools we have what it takes to survive different meta's.

Ugh, now I have to find time in my day to listen to this. Btw great work on the Stormkeep, a lot of insights on 3.0 Stormcast.