Duke of Mousillon
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Everything posted by Duke of Mousillon
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@Malakithe the thing is. We did have those rules! Last edition we did it all the time. Not just for me flavourfully converting stuff. Even fringe to meta somewhat. Tzeentch chaos warriors were a cheap battleline besides acolytes. Chaos sorcerer lord on manticore was a decent hero pick. I mean. All the tzeentch wins on tournaments this edition were basically Archaeon with destiny dice. Though I am not saying we should be using Archaeon. I am talking advocating for the "normal" StD units. But they gutted our coalition system completely. Now we are the only chaos god without a mortal roster to speak off.
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Yeah. I do not think we get new mortal models. If anything they would've been previewed today. Sadness. Maybe we will see coalition rules be playable again one day but I fear not.
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@RUNCMD I posted the new points costs as far as AoS Coach spoiled them from the battlebox. Scroll up. They stayed at 120. Theoretically they could change again with the new tome. Not sure how likely that is. Yeah I would like endless spell rules to get looked into again. I would love to use the flying book with the eyes but it is so important that I did not even bother to look up its name. Edit: Phrasing.
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Yeah. I did quite enjoy them being able to cast a spell. Right it was not game breaking or anything but it was like "yeah. These are real cultists of the Raven. They do wizard ******.". First horrors lost their ability to cast. Which to be fair. Horrors were and are still our best battleline though mightily expensive but was them being able to cast a spell the issue? Idk about that. Now the acolytes lost their spellcasting. And then putting us up in the battlebox against bloody high elves with their casting battlelines just adds insult to injury. And yes a more internally balanced book would be much appreciated. Though the battlebox does imply tzeentch mortals being the melee army. Putting us up against wizards and archers. Taking the spellcasts from acolytes and from the curseling. Curseling turning into a shorter range support character. They will not turn tzeentch into a melee faction. Definetly not. But this is how they portray the mortal side right now at least to me. Which is correct. The tzaangors have always been melee centric. Never too viable. But they were always about melee . Maybe this time around in the codex there will be a properly dedicated melee cult for tzaangors. Or at least. A tzaancor cult thats not worse then the generic cults for tzaangors. Though I would very much like them buffing the melee capabilites of Screamers too. Would not mind using Screamers more often. After all our power rn is in the demon heroes. Im excited to see what they have in store for those and am curious about our summoning mechanic since we apparently are losing spellcasts per turn in the mortal portion. Still praying for those new mortal models. If not ill just have to look into STD Tzeentch and do conversions there I guess.
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Did some math out of curiosity with the Curseling loosing his second unbind each round which was rerollable. He now has a 50% chance of denying an enemy wizards one spell cast during the next hero phase within 18''. In the past he had a second unbind that was rerrolable. This unbind basically had a 50%+ chance on succeding on any spell cast of 8 or lower. Went down to a 30% chance of unbinding a spell cast of 9 and even worse for 10-11. 12 being impossible. Generally speaking with his reroll he unbound 60,54%of enemy spell casts but this includes unbinding useless casting roles of like a 2 or 3 but those casting roles are also really rare. The potential unbinds on a casting role of 2 just amounts for 2,77% of that number for example. So against wizards with bonuses to cast its a buff. But at the same time he moves 5 inches. Staying out of 18'' compared to the 30'' unbind range is a difference. Also he needs this to get his second spell for himself each turn that he lost which now becomes lost forever when there are no wizards in range. And depending on the match up and meta. Yes it can be good to flat out deny a potential cast when his coin flip works but. This potential cast could be an arcane bolt or a mythic shield. No saying those spells are not worth denying ever but this might just make your enemy not cast his worst spell next round. Compared to that the second unbind he had before that you could use on the spell the enemy got through that actually was important. Though I do think it is charming to think of a level 1 caster turned into a 0 caster. Then again our Chickens are still unbinding spells with their dice cheating, so does it matter that he might be worse at denying spells? Probably not. More bummed out about him loosing a reliable second cast with kairic acolytes also loosing their cast. But yeah pros and cons i suppose. Think it is more cons but who knows what the tome brings.
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Oppinion. I always hated the Kairic Acolyte model. Their rules were always "it is the cheapest battleline and can cast a spell". Now they have no spell. At least i do no need to think about alternative models and conversions anymore. Curseling is. Different? I liked the spell shenanigans. It was something really unique. So now he buffs... enlightened and skyfires? Because your other arcanite unit has already a 6+ ward? I guess you can give the ward to himself or another arcanite heroe. Not sure about the 4+ to maybe steal a spellcast. i suppose it can be strong if it works. Both tzaangor units got better in melee now? Both saw a points increase for it. But go go tzaangors i guess. Ofcourse this can all change with the new books rules. Except the Acolytes. You are probably still at best "the cheapest battleline".
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You heard the news? Ill list the changes on the battle scrolls here as far as I could find them online today (source AoS Coach): Curseling: 3+ safe now. Better melee. Got a ranged attack. Only a level 1 caster now base but got the ability to at the start of your hero face pick an enemy wizards within 18'' roll a dice on a 4+ the wizard can cast one less spell in the enemys next hero phase and this hero phase the curseling can cast pne more spell. You can still reroll unbinding and dispelling rolls but lost all the enemy spell shenanigans you had before. His warscroll spell now gives a friendly Arcanite unit within 9'' a 6+ ward. Kairic Acolytes: No longer wizards. Now only a 6+ safe. Rerolls on pair of blades turned into an extra attack. Sorcerous bolt now have -1 rend from the scroll bearer. Tzasngor enlightened on disc: Save up to a 4+. Vicious Beaks now 2 attagks an 3+ to wound. Guided by the past rerolls turned into +1 to wound in melee if you are the 2nd player in a battle round. Babbling stream of secrets now makes it so enemy units within 3'x cannot recieve command abilities during the combat phase. Tzaangors: Champion now has +1 attack instead. Every profile now wounds on 3+. Savagery unleashed is removed. No bonus attacks anymore. Apparently also the weapon option of paired savage blades is gone? The totem effect was changed a little but still does the same thing with mortal wounds for wizards nearby. Now only in combat phase but does a little more dmg i suppose. Destiny Mayhem now gives the +1 to wound on charge instead of the closeby heroe. Edit: Point changes Curseling: 175 went down 5 Acolytes: 120 stayed Enlightened: 215 went up 35 Tzaangors: 200 went up 25
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@Inferno are releases not scheduled for Saturdays usually?
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With them announcing the battle box for preorder next week today. How long you reckon until the battle tome comes? A month? Or do we no get a battletome after the box?
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This I would even try. But only because the endless spell dropped to like 30 points if i remember correct and if I could make up my mind on a proper Acolyte conversion. Tzeentch knows I hate the acolyte models.
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I dont think flamers would be a good GV. But the Screamer argument sounds very reasonable. A shame they cannot be battleline ouside of that one subfaction. Probably better that way though. I am afraid Tzaangors would completely fall away because of the potential Hunters battalions. Not that tzaangors were great before but now even their 2 wounds wont safe them for a pure melee unit. Are their any tzaangor players who had got some experience in with tzaangors in the new enviroment?
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@Jaskier I would be afraid of loosing our guild of summoners subfaction. If they really push the power of lords of change. It was never great right but I loved the thought behind it. Plus converting Lords of Change was quite the enjoyable hobby project. And i do not inted on letting them gather dust. Though I am really praying for new tzeentch mortals. Give me those tzeentch chaos warriors. We cannot really use slaves to darkness anymore. And even slaanesh was given their twinsouls and whstever the other version is called. Now only tzeentch is missing its chaos warrior variation! I am praying for that expanded mortal range.
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So for those who actively play at the moment. How many Bounty Hunters battalions have you seen walking around in lists? We cannot really avoid being veterans. Well except maybe if burning chariots are battleline but that was never a viable option was it now.
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Would that new rule to make each model of a unit count as three on objectives work on horrors after they split? I am talking about the new core battalion expert conquerors.
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Secretely I hope that the Slaves to Darkness being more and more separated from the mono god armies indicates us getting proper Tzeentch Chaos Warriors at some point in this edition. Would be totally stoaked about that though I am afraid I am wishing for too much. Then again Slaanesh now too has those Painbringer models which are basically Slaanesh Chaos Warriors.
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You must have misunderstood me. I am not talking about right now. I am saying that I can see a state of the game where this could be a good option. Meaning if the meta shifts and maybe points costs are adjusted this could be good. Because fundamentally speaking. That is a strong rule to have. Just denying a whole mechanic (in this case retreating) is strong. Is it relevant right now as the state of the game is today? Maybe not. But it just needs a shift in the meta to make it strong suddenly. It doesnt need like bug rules changes or warscroll changes to be good.
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I can even see a possible state of the game where Host Duplicitous is a valid option. Trying to just run and charge enough Tzaangors up the board to pin the enemy in place.
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what were your other matchups and how did they play out? Yeah I suppose 7 "free" Tzaangors is not terrible. I am just so afraid of Kairics dying outside of melee making the ability not work. How tough was it to keep the Tzaangors within 9 of the dying model? How did that impact your board presence? You tried one big block of Acolytes and two min units of Tzaangors. What about those numbers? You liked them? Or would you think about maybe swapping to a bigger unit of Tzaangors and smaller units of Acolytes?
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I do think they have a very interesting warscroll to be fair. They have a not to be underestemated melee punch (Their Savage Greatblades are basicaly Enlightened Spears), they can run and charge and they are 2 wound infantry. I too think they are suffering due to external circumstances.
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Awesome! Its always sad to think about the effort we put into our minis and then maybe not playing them afterall. Go for it. So You wanna have a fun list? Fun is rather brought right but I can tell you what I would change if I wanted to have fun with Tzaangors. You should play 20 in a unit. If you want the fun to be with your Tzaangors hacking stuff down in melee you want 20 in a unit so they do not loose their 9+ model buff too soon before they even get into melee. Though that would presuppose you having more then 10 Tzaangors painted and ready to go. In general a unfun setback could be that if you do not go first and play against a shooting army your Gaunt Summoner will die before he can summon the pinks and leave you starting the game without pinks? I do not know about your tournaments competitiveness or meta but if you expect a lot of shooting you better be able to hide that Gaunt Summoner because you definetly pay the points for those pinks he can summon by taking him and if he does not get around to summon those pinks that is a big feels bad. Just thinking about your fun aspect here right. Ofcourse we could talk about how to make your list "better" but you wanna have fun with Tzaangors. You got Kairos and Umbral Spellportal. That is one of the best things our book can do at the moment I feel like so enjoy your Tzaangors.
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As far as I know Vulchark and the Scroll one too have weapon options. It does not say they have to swap out their weapons for anything. So if you want them to have Arcanite Shields the Vulchark and the Scroll one too can have Arcanite Shields or Paired Blades if you prefer that. Only the Glaive bearers state that their weapon load out is changed. As far as Paired Blades or Arcanite Shields I personaly would prefer shields. If they ever get into melee. They will fall over to a stiff breeze. So if you do not activate first who cares anyways. But even if you activate first with a full unit the damage increase you get, depending on the enemies defensive stats ofcourse, is for a 10 man unit 1 at best? I prefer them having the increased defensive capability to survive random chip damage. I am not saying they suddenly become tanky with shields but it can help a little here and there. Even with shiels i expect them to fall over when i send them into melee.
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They also changed Archaeon interacting with non std lists. I imagine Archaeon Tzeentch lists relied on him using destiny dice? I never looked into Archaeon in Tzeentch.
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Thanks for correcting me @Calypso2ts. Beg your pardon lads. Did they actually manage to cut through a unit of Pinks btw? I heard that Nurgle players where not convinced off their damage output with the new tome. Would be curious to know how your friend dealt with the pinks.
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How did the Daemonic Simulacrum perform? Did it do anything? Well yes. Flamers are our ranged damage dealer though better in a different host. In melee the most potent damage are still Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs but I am not sure about their points cost. Would anything have changed if you had first turn? Would you have been able to somehow avoid him getting everything on the objectives in his turn 1?
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Without knowing your other matchups right now. It might be worthwhile to not be a onedrop and instead take enhancements for example? You only said a one drop Glottkin Nurgle list is your main matchup and ofcourse generally speaking being a one drop is benefitial and maybe even the superior choice overall but if the match up you are really worried about is a one drop anyways just having other benefits and giving them the decision on who goes first without competition might be worth thinking about? I have not played 3.0 yet so take that with a grain of salt. Having 2*10 pinks is so much better then 1*20 pinks. Agree on that change. I am not sure about the Daemonic Simulacrum though. Soulsnare Shakles seems nice but the Simulacrum? If you wanna bring that third endless spell here are suggestions considering your nurgle fear: If you want a damaging endless spell because you are afraid of your damage potential think about Quicksilver Swords. I have not seen anyone test it yet but it bypasses ward saves. That was your fear in Nurgle concerning your damage output if I am not mistaken. I am not sure if the damage numbers effectively change when you crunch the numbers but I will leave that to you. If you really want to ****** nurgle off further Shards of Valagharr? Halving movement and making units lose fly would be most humorous to have the only fast unit they have go down to 4inches aswell just like the rest of theirs. Though I am unsure about its practicallity for the normal footsloggers. Going from 4 inches to 2 seems funny but is it important? Debatable and depending on the circumstances. It can be but I think this should be rather aimed at the flyers if taken at all. If you go for maybe a spell enhancement when not going for a one drop list may I recommend Chronomatic Cogs for the additional cast on your whole team? Yeah I just do not like the Daemonic Simulacrum that might be a personal thing. Also may I ask why you swapped over from Host Arcanum to Host Duplicitous? The AOE Casting rerolls thing is great no doubts. Just wanted to mention that Host Arcanum was a decent choice. Did not see the need to change that. Just curious what convinced you.
