Duke of Mousillon

Uhhhh. I would be excited to finally use more mortal units in Tzeentch. Even if I have to use the Coalitiom rules to bring them. Which would mean they cannot be battleline right? And also lose out on our Faction abilities. But what faction abilities do we even have for them to use. Fate Dice? They lose out on using Fate Dice.

Ai. I feel your conversion pain. The Blues and Brims are my burden rn. My first list goal for a 1000 points Host Arcanum would probably look smth like Kairos Ogroid Thamaturge with Arcane Sacrifice and Arcane Tome 2x 3 Screamer 1x 3 Skyfires All in a Battle Regiment to decide about who goes first. Just to have smth to play while I am converting the other stuff up for play.

I was actually flirting with the idea of a unit of 9 Screamers to use fold on in Host Arcanum. Maybe it would be overkill but I am quite excited to test out their new profile.

You just reminded me that fighting in two ranks is not part of the core rules and that if they do not remember this for the upcoming Ogor Codex the Ogor book will have a completely useless half again. But yes. I am afraid that Screamers and Tzaangors would suffer a lot from loosing that rule. To be fair you can still string out Tzaangors in a safe line because they are only on 32 mm bases?

@Alpidur we welcome you desciple. So for a start you should decide on another heroe you would like to use. Maybe even two. But at least 1. I would advise you on a demon heroe so you can use the demon spell lore in addition to the mortal spell lore. The Fluxmaster seems good right now and you can resummon him with summoning points if need be. Same goes for the Herald on foot if you prefer him. If you would like another heroe from the mortal side maybe one who can be your leader. As far as we have gathered so far. The Curseling and the Magister/ Magister on Disc both seem interesting with the Cul Demagogue command trait. My personal interest is the Ogroid Thaumaturge with Arcane Sacrifice as a command trait. Ofcourse a big wizard chicken would be a great heroe but they are expensive to I will leave them out for a "beginner" advise. Then we talk about battle line. You have one pink horror unit. That is already a battleline. Do you know a special coven you'd like to play? Because if you already know you want to play flamers in Eternal Conflagration then that is your battleline maybe right there. Or maybe you'd like to play screamers in Host Arcanum? That is your battleline right there. Generically. Pink horrors are terribly expensive but also terribly efficient and good. Outside of screamers host arcanum the kairic acolytes are our cheapest battleline but I hate the model. And Tzaangors are surprisingly good in melee with double blades. So it is up to your own style of play. I think all 3 generic battlelines have a purpose. If you already have an idea for a specific changecoven you would like to built towards maybe we can give you more specific advise. I would advise you to get heroes and battleline units figured out for yourself when you are just starting small before looking into options like Enlightened or Skyfires. Never play chariots. I mean go for it if you love them. But I cannot recommend them. Only think about flamers when you want to play Eternal Conflagration. Buy 20 more blues and brimstone to split from your pink horrors. The 10 blues and brimstone you already have you use for summoning during the game. I have mixed feelings on the Vanguard Disciples of Tzeenthc Box. If you do not mind spending the money and having additional units you might play in a different list sometime maybe it is for you. It is still a discount right. Maybe you can see it as "2 battlelines, a heroe and 2 summonable units" (I do not see you summoning flamers and screamers too often really. Most times its horrors or small heroes but it is an option) but personally I am not liking it too much but that is probably also part of me not wanting Acolytes. I would say dont sweat it with buying the tzeentch endless spells. It is probably good to have one in the list to summom for free at the beginning but it is not backbreaking to not use that ability. If you already have generic endless spells Spell Portal, Purple Sun, Cogs etc. Those are good. But you can even play without endless spells for a start! So all in all. Get 1-2 more heroes (probably want one who can use the demon spell lore). Or maybe just get one big chicken if you feel like spending the money. Get one more battlelline depending on your subfaction and playstyle and that should already be close to 1000 points because your 10 pinks and Gaunt Summoner on Disc are over 500 on their own. And dedinetly get 20 blues and brims for your army (at least 10 of both so you can actually split your pinks. But then you might not have enough for summoning and blues are maybe the most summoned unit of ours). Edit: I am aware that right now the Gaunt Summoner theoretically can cast demon spells. He is a demon. You can give him 1 demon spell to know. But I am convinced for now that that is a misprint in the book and he will be faq into an arcanite again. That's what my advise is based on since the faq has to drop at some point. But for now it is not just theoretically true but also practically. So go ahead and give your Gaunt Summoner that Demon Spell when building lists!

You could actually make the non- battleline pink horror blob with the one blue in there Bounty Hunters. I dont know if you want to do that but it'd be funny to have them actually be damage 2 against enemy battleline.

@Hannibal good luck lad. I myself just started converting blue horrors. It is a pain but i suppose i will summon them often enough to put in the work. @Jabbuk depends as far as I am concerned on what you want to do. Pinks in the main list can be valuable. Using bridge to throw them mid board turn 1 for example. But I agree they are expensive for the main list. It is also worth remembering that you are allowed to play 9 pinks and 1 blue to get around that pesky Bounty Hunter batallion. Or 19/1. So if your battleline requirements are already checked and you still want to have pinks in the list I would recommend using 1 blue in the unit.

Fellow cultists. The German GW page says that Tzaangors are not only out of stock online. It says they are not available anymore online.

@Adammck66 we are still quite early in but generally speaking I enjoy the Curseling over the Magister as my leader just because he is a bit harder to kill. So he would get the command trait. It is not too much between the two but that is my initial thought right now. I would not use Tome of Eyes on either of those. Chronomatic Cogs is the answer. Both reasons you give would not give me enough incentive to use Tome.

@RUNCMD I was not referring to your list but to the page before. I was talking about magisters with cult demagogue so they can use their second cast reliably without turning into a spawn.

Yeah as long as you can give the Magister the enhancement for doubles on cast he seems like a grand level 2 wizard. Would also take him if I have the enhancement free

@Domize ****** it. I completely forgot how odd his old double spell cast worked. My bad thanks.

My list efforts are focusing in on Tzaangors. Thinking about running either 3 Tzaangors of 10. Or 1 Tzaangor block of 20 Which I focus my buff efforts on. Sadly I am really afraid of Bounty Hunters ripping through my Tzaangors like butter. So i think about incorporating a unit of Pinks with 1 Blue in them to have staying power somewhere. At the same time I am struggling with points. I want to play one chicken because I put a lot of effort into converting mine. So either I start with it on the table or I play guild of summoners and summon in my first chicken? But then my Battleline would be more expensive. I will not use Kairics until I actually have a conversion for them that looks less terrible. So other then Guild of Summoners, Host Arcanum would be giving me Screamers Battleline and Host Duplicitous could make the 20 Tzaangor block unretreatable from. Units that I think about using to buff Tzaangors: Curseling, Magister. Because 2 Fate Lore spells are needed. Shield of Fate and Arcane Suggestion. Could be a Gaunt Summoner too. Fatemaster for plus 1 to wound Tzaangor Englightened/ Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc but the disc variant is way too expensive for most lists in my head Allying in Contorted Epitome for rerolling hit rolls of 1. Changecaster for rend Gaunt Summoner on Disc for teleporting them into the front but they have run and charge so they are not slow by themselves. Sadly they lost the Keyword to interact with the Great Brayshamans movement buff. Purple Sun for rend Right with all those buffs which, I am not saying I can fit in the list, they would be 3 attacks/ 2+ rerolling 1s to hit/2+ to wound/-3 rend/1 damage and 2 beak attacks/3+ rerolling 1s to hit/2+ to wound/-3 rend/1 damage. The leader and the mutants have 2/1 more attacks respectively. 5+ Armor 5+ Ward Ignore spells on a 4+. And units in combat with them cannot recieve commands. 10 of them throw out 54 attacks on the charge. 33 of those are blades 21 beaks on the charge. If you play 20 you will not get all of them into melee at the same time I recon but it lets them survive a bit of shooting hopefully before they get into melee. That being said. This is ofcourse the dream scenario that will not play out like that but even with a couple less buffs. They will murder anything they touch.

This. I always liked his utility. The same for Kairos old spell. The same for the OG Thaumaturge Fireball spell making Brimstones. RIP. But Magister was never "good". He did not change since the last tome. Him being suddenly so good? I think he is overhyped by some for example in that Warhammer Weekly podcast about the new tome. The only thing that changed is you can suicide himself to make the Incarnate go wild and my personal opinion is that the Incarnate should be removed from play or reworked. I do not like those things. Edit: I completley overlooked how his double cast change. Yeah just ignore the "hasnt changed since the last tome" part. Im talking shite here.

I am thinking about allying in the contorted epitome for tzaangor support if there is enough space. Can I give levitate to the epitome when allying in or do I need to get the additional spell enhancement to touch the universal spell lore with allies?

and is that someting we do here? just post pictures of our tzeentch minis? just curious maybe I would throw in mine someday too.

@Sinfullyvannila nothing they miss out on for not being arcanite? In the name of the Guild of Summoners I would beg to differ.

@RUNCMD I am not excited by the new tome either. Most if not all of what I hoped for never came true. Though lets look at our tome from a design and balance perspective. Were we unbalanced in the last tome? We had ups and downs. As far as I can tell we were definetly not a popular faction at tournaments. Though the few very dedicated cultists of Tzeentch managed to win somehow. Not too long before the VS box dropped Tzeentch won a tournament. I cannot remember who piloted the list but as I said. Few players but those who were dedicated enough had the opportunity to win. Though to be fair I think the winning Tzeentch lists used that incarnate stuff. I dont know how much of those wins then speak for our power level and how much speaks for the Incarnates power level. If anything I would maybe say Tzeentch was a little too weak. Not much. Design wise I will be honest. I would design Tzeentch differently. I think Tzeentch could feel way more like Tzeentch. This is ofcourse personal opinion. There are people out there who probably think that this is exactly how they imagine Tzeentch to feel. That aside. Design wise we were not outdated. Right? They did polish around the edges (ex removing rerolls on attacks and wounds... or even safes Rest in Peace Paradoxical Shield) so now we "stick to 3rd edition mechanics" so to say. But our rules still do not feel too old or anything. So were they "lazy" with our tome? Yeah. Probably. But did we need the extra attention like for example Nurgle? No. We did not, I would argue. It is not like they did not do anything. The different Heralds now actually do different things. At least more then before. Enlightened and Skyfire both have interesting new abilities. How relevant they are is to be seen. That does not mean I would not have hoped for more changes. I still think it is laughable that Lord of Change is 2 casts. 400 points. A greater Demon of Tzeentch? 2 casts? I guess we are still just the demons who literally created magic. I would have gone a different design route. Personally I was not able to actively play 3rd edition so I do not think I can give a good judgement on the rulesbloat. Keeping that in mind, third edition did bring in new things like Battle Tactics and Grand Strategies. Which exist as generic and faction specific. So it did increase the complexity of the game. Are their too many rules now? I cannot judge that in good faith. And here we have to ask ourselves. Is this not how balancing should be? Youre not terrible. Youre not standing out. Youre just good enough. Which does not mean it should not feel awesome to play an army. A faction should definetly not feel boring to play. But from a balancing perspective that sounds like a good start.

People. Interesting question. The warscrolls in our book are grouped. First come the demon heroes. Rhen the demon units. Then come the arcanie heroes. Then the arcanite units. Why is the Gaunt Summoner (both variants) at the start of the arcanite heroes list if they are now demons apparently? What is likelier. A: They misprinted his keyword and he is still an acanite. B: They forgot to move his page to the demon heroes. C : They have a reason to keep him as the only demon heroe inside the arcanite heroe section despite the warscrolls being clearly separated. Edit: removed emoticon in C :

I would like to start buying miniatures and converting stuff but I am afraid of the coming errata. When does the first errata for a new book usually drop?

@Adammck66 skyfires in one unit to buff them easier. Enlightend on disc in two separate because of their utility. Make them shutdown command abilities independently. And acolytes doesnt matter. New Tzaangor dual blades matter but acolytes dont matter as far as I can see. Shields are fine on them.

Exactly this bums me out when thinking about the two. Kinda frustrating.

Can somebody sell me on the Lord of Change? Feels a little dissapointing at that price point that Kairos does literally everything he does but more for 35 points extra.

@Mandollies 98% sure it is a misprint. Yes. It says monster there. But no. It will be erratad so fast you will forget it ever was there.

I knew it!!! Time to start converting.