Ganigumo

Just got back from Red Harvest GT and got absolutely destroyed with my spiderfang. Went 0-5 and had the least BP at the event, but managed to avoid the wooden spoon award thanks to other factors 😅. Still had fun getting a bunch of games in though. The lists at the event were all very competitive, lots of IJ, archaon, morathi, and teclis. I've only gotten a handful of 3.0 games so far, and playing against strong lists gave me a much better understanding of 3.0. I played against: Khorne archaon, Morathi/snake Dok, Hosts Arcanum Archaon, Coalesced Kroak, and nurgle. I got tabled on the top of 3 in round 2 (vs DoK, by the end of t1 I had lost 70 wounds of spider riders), but otherwise had some models stick around (the seraphon game I had just a single shaman left at the end to score my grand strategy). The archaon lists weren't too bad to play against thanks to my mobility, so I could still try to score tactics and hold objectives around him. What held me back the most was the lack of literally any kind of damage output, even with getting buffs off. The first turn or two usually went fine, but then things would fall apart since I just didn't have any damage to punch back with. My flaming weapon/finest hour/All Out Attack/mortals on 5s webspinner on arachnarok managed to completely whiff against 9 plaguebearers (0 damage), and earlier in the event couldn't take out 3 terradon riders even with support from a few spider riders. At the end of the day it felt like the warscrolls were letting me down, rather than my play. It certainly didn't help that I was somehow unable to win a single priority roll the entire event (except maybe after Dok had already tabled me).

Destructions Identity is as a force of nature. All of the destruction battletomes make a connection between the damage caused by destruction forces and natural disasters, and they all fit as well. In a way the forces of Destruction are the forces of the realms themselves fighting back against those who would try to claim them.

0-1 10x gutrippaz, 2-3 6x boltboyz, 0-1 3x boltboyz, as many hobgrot screens as you can fit. Gutrippaz are just overcosted at the moment, and their durability comes from just being a lot of wounds, and hobgrots are cheaper as wounds so if you don't need to fill battleline you're better off with the hobgrot screens imo. You can make gutrippaz do some decent damage if you buff them up with poisons and elixirs and a sludgeraker, but you're putting a lot of resources into it, and its very easy to disrupt since you can't use poisons and elixirs if the gutrippaz are already in combat, so the moment they get stuck in you'll struggle to ever reapply the buff to them. I'm not sure why, but for some reason GW has taxed "having lots of wounds in a unit" really heavily this edition in their calculations. Gutrippaz at 180, savage orruks at 165, (meanwhile 10 ardboyz are 170 with a 4+/6++ and rallying on a 4+). Also I think 9x boltboyz is a trap. They're good, but putting that many fragile points in the same place is asking for trouble imo. I'm planning on running 2x20 gutrippaz and only 1x3 boltboyz in my list though, but its not a competitive list.

Haven't tried anything yet, but lists without mawkrushas put A LOT of wounds on the table. Threw this together without thinking too hard, but something like this is a lot of wounds on a 4+ to deal with, especially when rallying the 'ardboyz A list like this definitely plays a different game than a list with a maw-krusha but its probably a viable build. Especially if/when spamming mortals to deal the save stacking meta becomes common.

As cool as the model is I'm obligated to be upset about it!

IMO living city is the way to go. Throw in 2 boxes of wild riders, 2-3 boxes of eternal guard maybe a box of sisters of the watch and a Treelord as the centerpiece with a nomad prince as the hero. Not sure if the cost is right but that would give you a nice variety of units and a centerpiece. Alternatively maybe a demigryph + griffon box could work

The army (i posted a close up in the first by mistake)

I did manage to scrounge up a second killbow. The list: Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz- Option: Grimscuttle Tribes- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery- Triumphs: InspiredLeadersWebspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (295)*- General- Command Trait: Prophet of da Spider God- Artefact: Shyishan Spider-sigils- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Sneaky DistractionScuttleboss on Gigantic Spider (105)*- Artefact: Totem of the Spider GodWebspinner Shaman (85)*- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Gift of da Spider GodWebspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (295)**- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming WeaponWebspinner Shaman (85)**- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Scuttling TerrorsMadcap Shaman (80)**- Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy NuisanceBattleline5 x Spider Riders (100)*5 x Spider Riders (100)**5 x Spider Riders (100)***10 x Spider Riders (200)***- Reinforced x 110 x Spider Riders (200)***- Reinforced x 1ArtilleryBeast-skewer Killbow (130)- AlliesBeast-skewer Killbow (130)- AlliesEndless Spells & InvocationsScrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (50)Chronomantic Cogs (45)Core Battalions*Warlord**Warlord***Hunters of the Heartlands

How dare you talk smack about GrimDrakk Centaurhide the appendage of GMork

Alarith stoneguard hammers to the same as a mancrusher club, are you arguing they should hit as hard as a kraken-eater or warstomper club? 🤣 Agreed Grand strategies don't really add anything interesting given the options. Its also added complexity.

Not all factions need expansions, some (like ironjawz) feel complete even with a small number of kits. We don't need a fantasy/40k arms race where every faction needs a version of every "thing" AOS 3.0's core rules are far too complex, even if battletomes end up being simpler. Better to have a simple game with complex factions than a complex game with simple factions. God level characters aren't more interesting than hero level ones The resin scuttleboss is dated but still looks cool Dragon ogors should all be bipeds like the shaggoth, rather than the semi quadrupeds that try to fight with their front legs. Its derpy. I'd rather see the plastic dragon ogor kit replaced with something that more resembles the resin shaggoth than get a plastic shaggoth.

Yeah it'd be great if we could buff shootas the same way we buff stabbas, it would add a cool angle to the book!

yeah but their shooting attack doesn't really do any damage. 20 attacks on 5s and 5s is like 2.2 wounds before saves, and none of our buffs affect shooting attacks.. Their value is in being 7 points per wound on a -1 to hit, which is pretty similar to what stabbas do but with a worse save. If you need them to just sit on a point somewhere they're fine, but if you plan on buffing them or bringing a big horde to grind with you're better off with stabbas. As a shooting unit they're awful by any metric, they just don't do any damage, but thats not their purpose.

Shootas are awful as a shooting unit. Better to think of them as an alternative to stabbas that trade melee output for ranged chip damage than as an actual shooting unit like Sentinels.

Alright, List submission is on Friday and I think this is what I'm going to take to Red Harvest GT. Gonna do my best but with a spiderfang list I won't get my hopes up too much 😅. Its a bit unfortunate I couldn't get my hands on a second killbow in time though. The only things I'm a bit unsure of are the spells/artefacts on the webspinners and if I should trade out 10 spider riders for a skitterstrand. The spider riders will be more generally useful, but with all the bonuses for monsters having one that can deepstrike might be a useful too. I definitely want flaming weapon on one of the arachnaroks since it can buff the spider's leg attacks, but I'm not sure if I should give the one with AoD sneaky distraction, and the other one flaming weapon, so the one with AoD can double up on defense.

Most effects like this either the wounds can't be negated, or you don't get the bonus if you negate them. It would be strange if it wasn't the case here.

Troggs with +1 to hit from a sloggoth can be pretty nasty, and the dankhold troggboss CA gives all Troggoth units reroll 1s to hit (this includes the mirebrute and the sloggoth). So if you wanted to run a troggoth heavy list and are bringing a few mirebrutes you could bring a troggboss to give them reroll ones and still have enough ally points left over for a 3 man unit of rockguts or fellwaters. I doubt the list would be very competitive but those mirebrutes will be hitting hard. Edit: As always fungoid cave shamans as CP batteries and to cast endless spells, or maybe a webspinner on arachnarok if we really need a +1 wizard to get off a certain endless spell...

In a spiderfang list the sloggoth is less of an auto include, but can still be useful depending on your build, since it provides minimal benefit to spider riders, but can be useful for arachnaroks and any troggoths you bring along.

How do we feel about the Kruleboyz killbow? I've been brainstorming spiderfang lists and it seems like a good fit for the army, it does lose the mortals, but its rend 2 and can take big chunks out of megas which is something we struggle with. They're not too pricy at 130 points each either.

Are they undercosted though? we'd definitely pay more for the shaman, but that's more because he's the only way to get access to mortals on 5s, you'd need to cost him to the point where he's unplayable for him to not show up in lists. If the breakaboss were much more expensive you'd never take him, since literally all he provides is damage with a 5" move, sure its a lot of damage, but delivery is an issue, especially since he isn't particularly durable (12 wounds on a 4+ who hurts himself)

Pics or it didn't happen, spider riders are awful 😅 (and also very comparable to gutrippaz statwise) It seems like GW has modified their "point calculator" and are overpointing the value of raw wounds gutrippaz are overcosted and the bonespitterz infantry saw some pretty hefty point increases. Gutrippaz need to come down 20-30 points. Of course that wouldn't fix the part where the entire book pushes you into big yellers & boltboy battleline, or the warscroll ability that only works if they aren't in combat, or the shaman buff that can't do anything if they're in combat with something and can't be reapplied even if you retreat. They just don't really serve a purpose, they should be what we use when we want to grind against something tough to kill on an objective or something, but their wounds aren't cheap enough and the book doesn't really give any support for that kind of play.

Since you're not bringing shamans anyways it wouldn't be too bad to run 2x3 boltboyz instead, so you get 2 unit champions. Not sure of the math, but the +1 attack and extra reroll are probably better than all out attacking a unit of 6, plus you could fit some hobgrots in as extra bodies.

gutrippaz can definitely pump out damage if you buff them up (with the sludgeraker and the shaman poison you get roughly 1 mortal wound per gutrippa). They have several problems though, between the skareshields only working the first turn they fight, the shaman applying poisons in the hero phase, and only to things not in combat they're just a unit that becomes frustrating to use to their potential. If they're caught grinding they basically don't get to have a poison again for the rest of the game. They've also got stiff competition from sludgerakers in the damage perspective, hobgrots in the bodies/wounds perspective, and boltboyz as a buff recipient. I've said it before but I think the competitive kruleboyz list will be some variation of: 12 boltboyz (2 units), 2 killbows, 2 sludgerakers, 2 shamans, 10 gutrippaz, then filling the rest of the army with more wounds and chaff. I think going full shooting is wrong, but basically all of the synergies work best on our shooting units, and projecting power is strong. Gutrippaz really needed to be able to have the shaman reapply the poison on them reliably, being able to retreat at the end/start of a turn (maybe as a command ability) would've felt proper kunning and done the trick, and also make skareshields more consistent.

1 killbow is a bit inconsistent, but they're horrendously undercosted against armies bringing high wound monsters (like sons of behemat) and only a bit overcosted if all they can do is shoot at support heroes, so bringing a couple is generally worth it since the value it provides in good matchups far outweighs the lost efficiency in it's bad matchups.

My issue is they threw out an entire working system that could've easily been tuned to be more balanced, with a system that GW themselves claimed would be more equitable, only to immediately backtrack on it. They themselves pushed the idea that it was solving the balance issues of warscroll battalions (and the community was happy to jump on board and blame warscroll battalions for a lot the balance issues, despite evidence to the contrary). The closer core battalions get to warscroll battalions, the less necessary it was to blanket ban them from matched play entirely, invalidating chunks of people's allegiances in the process. It wouldn't have been hard to remove the free benefits from warscroll battalions (artefact/cp/1drop) and create some universal warscroll battalions to cover those until the battletomes released (and as an added bonus it wouldn't have created the illusion that warscroll battalions were broken or they were making the system more equitable). Basically my issue is mostly with GW throwing out warscroll battalions for what seems like no reason at this point. It would've been super easy to just remove the free cp/1drop/artefact from battalions and create a few universal ones to cover that, they could've just adjusted the rules instead of replacing it with something nearly identical. I do think making core battalions more interesting is a good thing, but in the context of them getting rid of warscroll battalions its a baffling direction to go in.